Big Mountain Powder Chargers - Heritage Lab C113 and FL113 - Dedicated Thread

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

I may try just a hair detune underfoot. I'm mostly finding (as with any real charging ski) that I HAVE to be actively weighting the skis and skiing fast. If I'm lazy or a bit tired or try to ski too much with the skis flat I notice just a bit of catchiness. So, not a fault with the ski but with the rider and maybe a bit of detune will give me a little more wiggle room?

[Norseman]

Marshal, have you skied this shape with different edge bevels?

I wonder if the 2 deg side bevel is a bit bitey on this shape.

(Ducks back behind the qb armchair)

[Marshal Olson]

Good thoughts! Thank you.

I knocked back sharpness a little and reducing the aggressiveness better matched <50 run ski legs right now.

Best cure is more laps!

still very curious if others find the tune a bit aggressive and if I should adjust on the next round.

[Lord Thomas]

i think you should send me a pair and I'll ski the shit out of them and tell you exactly how they should be tuned. Just trying to help

[Sylvan]

Good thoughts! Thank you.

I knocked back sharpness a little and reducing the aggressiveness better matched <50 run ski legs right now.

Best cure is more laps!

still very curious if others find the tune a bit aggressive and if I should adjust on the next round.

Just my opinion, but the tune on my 194 FL113s is perfect. Bite underfoot in firm for all the sketchy entrances to get to the goods, slarvacious in anything remotely soft. Will report back once I get more time on em, but day 1 (soft alpine laps) was fucking sick. Big Mountain Freedom Fighters indeed.
Love the predictable straight shape, and slarvy, long low profile, and the rubber, non-metal lam layup hauls ass (@195# and room to run), I think cause the flex is stiffer, and weight couple hundred grams heavier (2630 g/ski but you wouldn't know it on snow, tons of beef underfoot), than Squads; trad mount helps no doubt.
Marshal, Arild, thanks for bringing your ideas to market, we're all benefitting. Will report back when my legs stop working, and I've got a minute to type something of substance. Cheers!

[Sylvan]

Y’all built a BComb alpine weapon. Just lapped Saudan and a sluffy Bushrat Shoulder (first time this year); these DGAF. Not like anything else I’ve personally skied. Chewing on some comparables.

Marshal, where is HL based? Chairlift dwellers are inquiring

[Marshal Olson]

Y’all built a BComb alpine weapon. Just lapped Saudan and a sluffy Bushrat Shoulder (first time this year); these DGAF. Not like anything else I’ve personally skied. Chewing on some comparables.

Marshal, where is HL based? Chairlift dwellers are inquiring

yeah dude! Psyched.
I live in Utah/ski snowbird. Glad you are getting on with yours so far!

I took my 194s out today and loved every minute of them. Just had to open up the speeds a bit and they came to life perfectly

[Sylvan]

yeah dude! Psyched.
I live in Utah/ski snowbird. Glad you are getting on with yours so far!

I took my 194s out today and loved every minute of them. Just had to open up the speeds a bit and they came to life perfectly

Nice! And thanks, got it right then; shop dudes were pretty pumped on em as well. I snapped some pics b4 dropping into Bushrat Shoulder, but turns out my photo game needs work, so here's one from top of Saudan instead.

Attachment 446804

For the collective, mine are 193.7 TL, 2630 grams/ski average, mounted -11 w/ P15s and Kryptons (317 BSL), and as someone who normally bumps mounts toward -10, I really like em at -11. Could go forward a cenny or two from a tip dive perspective, but really like the shovel flex and don't wanna fuck with it (I'm 6'2/195#, ski WB mostly).

Initial thoughts after two soft, wind recycling days: Soft snow slarvy chargers that can hold an edge. Edgehold/slarve like a VWK, construction feels like a Squad/Woodsman 110 blend, but with more top end, flex is a stiffer Squad, shape is...an FL113 (predictable). Feel like a true charger despite the no metal thing. And yah, this could easily be the wider of two skis in a Western resort quiver.
As Marshal said above, need speed to come alive, more than Squads, but not as much as any of my metal lam skis, and it seems like most of the beef is in the middle half of the ski, so they don't feel as heavy as they are. That combined with the flat profile means the first turn is comfy.
Obv not a groomer ski, but they getcha back to the lift in a hurry, and despite the 45mR, the flex allows em to be bent into smaller shapes, to a point, after which its slarve city!
Having reread that ^, I'm making em sound burly, and the 194 is, but the rocker profile also means they're super pivoty/slarvy. Was actually worried when I saw how flat the tail was, but it works super well with the tail flex, and has released super well in 2 and 3D West Coast snow. Dunno. Coming from mostly metal lam chargers, they were intuitive enough for me to drop into Saudan first day, first run on em in shitty vis, and Bushrat Shoulder is just filling in now, and I skied it for the first time this year on day 2 on em, for whatever that's worth.
For my size and traditional style, at WB, they're a winner; a non-metal soft snow ski for metal heads. They'll go as fast as I want, can handle shitty entrances and sketchy steeps (would rather camber if blue, but y'all know that), make any shape you want in pow, but also are more forgiving than say 191 K108s (I think due to straight shape and softer but still supportive flex), meaning I can play more on em than those (which have become the standard for me).
My two cents. Really looking forward to other mag's thoughts on these, cause in the right environment, they're fucking sick (scientific term). Quiver complete; thanks Fellas!

[Norseman]

^ word.

[mr_pretzel]

Thanks Sylvan! Bummed I missed the last few days up there. Stoked they are working well for you!

Damn, the K108s are that burly huh, looks like I have to get on a pair.

[Sylvan]

Thanks Sylvan! Bummed I missed the last few days up there. Stoked they are working well for you!

Damn, the K108s are that burly huh, looks like I have to get on a pair.

Been a good week. Winds transported allll the snow onto northerly aspects, short lines, good times. Welcome to my K108s but don’t think our BSLs jive. Pumped to hear your thoughts on these as well bud!

[Lord Thomas]

Nice! And thanks, got it right then; shop dudes were pretty pumped on em as well. I snapped some pics b4 dropping into Bushrat Shoulder, but turns out my photo game needs work, so here's one from top of Saudan instead.

Attachment 446804

For the collective, mine are 193.7 TL, 2630 grams/ski average, mounted -11 w/ P15s and Kryptons (317 BSL), and as someone who normally bumps mounts toward -10, I really like em at -11. Could go forward a cenny or two from a tip dive perspective, but really like the shovel flex and don't wanna fuck with it (I'm 6'2/195#, ski WB mostly).

Initial thoughts after two soft, wind recycling days: Soft snow slarvy chargers that can hold an edge. Edgehold/slarve like a VWK, construction feels like a Squad/Woodsman 110 blend, but with more top end, flex is a stiffer Squad, shape is...an FL113 (predictable). Feel like a true charger despite the no metal thing. And yah, this could easily be the wider of two skis in a Western resort quiver.
As Marshal said above, need speed to come alive, more than Squads, but not as much as any of my metal lam skis, and it seems like most of the beef is in the middle half of the ski, so they don't feel as heavy as they are. That combined with the flat profile means the first turn is comfy.
Obv not a groomer ski, but they getcha back to the lift in a hurry, and despite the 45mR, the flex allows em to be bent into smaller shapes, to a point, after which its slarve city!
Having reread that ^, I'm making em sound burly, and the 194 is, but the rocker profile also means they're super pivoty/slarvy. Was actually worried when I saw how flat the tail was, but it works super well with the tail flex, and has released super well in 2 and 3D West Coast snow. Dunno. Coming from mostly metal lam chargers, they were intuitive enough for me to drop into Saudan first day, first run on em in shitty vis, and Bushrat Shoulder is just filling in now, and I skied it for the first time this year on day 2 on em, for whatever that's worth.
For my size and traditional style, at WB, they're a winner; a non-metal soft snow ski for metal heads. They'll go as fast as I want, can handle shitty entrances and sketchy steeps (would rather camber if blue, but y'all know that), make any shape you want in pow, but also are more forgiving than say 191 K108s (I think due to straight shape and softer but still supportive flex), meaning I can play more on em than those (which have become the standard for me).
My two cents. Really looking forward to other mag's thoughts on these, cause in the right environment, they're fucking sick (scientific term). Quiver complete; thanks Fellas!

Once again Sylvan is doing the lord's work! You just need to keep sacrificing yourself for the sake of science and keep filling in all the knowledge gaps. Strong work.

At this point a could gleefully fill my entire quiver with HL's lineup. A giant hallelujah for Marshall toiling in service of his fellow maggots!!!

[Marshal Olson]

A giant hallelujah for Marshall toiling in service of his fellow maggots!!!

More like... thank you all for caring about all these weird skis and helping make this dream real!
And heck yeah. The shreddage is heart-warming to say the least.

[chewski]

Got a pair of 187's mounted at -11cm for pivots that i will take out this weekend. I mentioned this in the r/r thread about the FR132, but once again I drilled these for 3.5mm and had a hell of a time cranking the bindings down all the way. I have mounted dozens of skis so have some frame of reference but i had to two handed crank until my palms were raw to get the bindings down on the deck. I probably should have tried 4.1mm bit or tapped after my first experience but the cores or something in the layup is crazy dense. Definitely no pullouts or spinners ever

[Marshal Olson]

Got a pair of 187's mounted at -11cm for pivots that i will take out this weekend. I mentioned this in the r/r thread about the FR132, but once again I drilled these for 3.5mm and had a hell of a time cranking the bindings down all the way. I have mounted dozens of skis so have some frame of reference but i had to two handed crank until my palms were raw to get the bindings down on the deck. I probably should have tried 4.1mm bit or tapped after my first experience but the cores or something in the layup is crazy dense. Definitely no pullouts or spinners ever

good feedback. The skis definitely have the stoutest biding plate available. I ran the threads in and out a couple times when mounting (drill). Good comment to test 4.1 as well this weekend. Cheers! Stoked to hear what you think.

[arild]

Caveat: super, super biased.

194 FLs, mounted at -11 (86.5cm from tail) with Pivot 18s for 305 bsl Dobermann 130s with Zipfit Corsas inside.

Fresh thoughts:

They ski like Marshal and I wanted them to, except that they pivot a bit easier. You have to make them, though, but I'm suspecting that anyone considering these are used to a bit of muscling.

Chop destroyers, powder missiles, and super, super cool.

More thoughts when I ski them more.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

[mr_pretzel]

Stoked Arild! You still think going -9.5 would work?

[J. Barron DeJong]

Caveat: super, super biased.

194 FLs, mounted at -11 (86.5cm from tail) with Pivot 18s for 305 bsl Dobermann 130s with Zipfit Corsas inside.

Fresh thoughts:

They ski like Marshal and I wanted them to, except that they pivot a bit easier. You have to make them, though, but I'm suspecting that anyone considering these are used to a bit of muscling.

Chop destroyers, powder missiles, and super, super cool.

More thoughts when I ski them more.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

Gratuitous crotch shot appreciated!

[arild]

Gratuitous crotch shot appreciated!

We don't have those luxury lifts you have in Tahoe, man! If I can't remember to ever charge the GoPro, crotch shots are what you're getting.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

[arild]

Stoked Arild! You still think going -9.5 would work?

Honestly, you might want to go for -10, given your preference for a more neutral stance. Don't you ski plugs, though, meaning some forced forward lean, in most cases?

In pure untracked pow, I, as an unapologetic luddite, would probably want to mount -12, just because my preferred boots have a bit of forward lean to them. My Lupos, which are more upright, might make me more comfy in the few untracked stashes I found, at-11, but I mount for the conditions I expect to use the ski for, not for the unicorn days of all untracked. pretty skied out 50cm moist dump (so, chop, really), -11 was great.

Never commented on the flex in the last post.

Shovels through underfoot, even steven 9-9.5/10 flex, then very gradually softening through the tails, to about 7.5-8/10. Never skied Monsters, but Marshal wanted to emulate their flex pattern, and by Chtulhu, that works like a charm.

So, flex is pretty stiff, but the tail is staggeringly forgiving for the class of skis these belong in. I backslapped on drops a few times, fully expecting to be taken for a ride, but felt more like the skis' tails readjusted rather than springing back or washing out.

After one day, I'm seriously thinking that I'd never need another soft snow ski, but then I have yet to take the c132s out(which would probably be pretty fun in today's conditions).

When skiing with my kids, though, like I did the second half of today, I'm thinking FR110s might be more fun, given their reverse camber and likely higher tolerance for going slow. So, I just ordered them, along with a couple of pairs of FL105s and BC90s.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Ok so I'm still adapting/learning these skis in different snow depths and densities.

If I were to do anything differently I would maybe move my mount point forward to -10.5 or -10. I think that is in part due to skiing full rocker Volkls too much where the mount is back, but not by much. Yesterday the first part of the day we skied some steep wind recycled north facing pow.



The upper open sections had some boot deep higher density stuff where the crystals had broken down. I found the shovels were a bit hard to control. Maybe my RX130s aren't stiff enough or something. I think pushing my mount forward would really help in this type of snow. The stiffness of the shovels will probably allow for less ski in front of the boot. Going over the bars by over flexing the shovel seems nearly impossible at my 170# and 5'7".

In the afternoon on our favorite frontside "play run" with a true mix of steeps/chop/pow/side hits etc I really got into the zone and these skis were an absolute joy. Maybe the most fun I have had on skis in a while. Absolutely charging/jibbing/popping/slashing etc. Got em up to 65 mph.

I think a crude MTB comparison is that these skis are like a Yeti SB150. They just get better and better the faster you go.

I'm gonna keep skiing the shit out of them and decide if I really do need to move from -11.5 up to -10.5 or -10. I think I'm light enough to give it a shot.

If/when a shorter version comes out I may try them too......as well as the FR110 which I think may really complement some more playful/less deliberate skiing in soft snow.

TLDR;

I still love these skis and want more. The non Heritage quiver is going to slowly hit gear swap and be replaced with a full fleet of Heritage sticks.

[arild]

I still love these skis and want more. The non Heritage quiver is going to slowly hit gear swap and be replaced with a full fleet of Heritage sticks.

#metoo. :Fm:

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

[Sylvan]

Spent the week on mine (194 FL113s, 6'2/195#, @WB); a few additional thoughts. Pretty big sweet spot on em (forward or centered). Also, couldn't find the top end, and I tried. Love the layup; my back is older than I am, and normally after 5 days in a row I'm pretty mangled; other than being sore from a self inflicted crash (dang sluff), I feel like a spring chicken this morning. Honestly, for my weight, they are one of the more plush skis I've been on. Tail reminds me of a slightly stiffer, flatter, 192 R11; ie. not a 2x4, and what I hoped the OG R11 tail would be. Skied a couple storm days, and feeling down steeps wasn't an issue, and it'll smear with some effort, but strong enough to hold you up if you get back. The slarve/edgehold hits a sweet spot for me; every time I head to Feather Trees from Sylvan/Saudan/False Face, and transition from the soft N or W facing stuff, to the S facing wind board, it catches me by surprise (slow learner); no issues on these. They handle slow speed tech (due to tail) better than they should for how hard you can push em (due to shovel); considering the specs, surprisingly quick edge to edge, and don't feel like I need to be 'on' all the time. Here's a pic from earlier this week; skied this line a bunch on em, but full disclosure, I did get sluffed out the bottom on this one. These'll replace my Confessions, and will likely take some days from K108s also.

Attachment 447260

[themutt]

Anyone have strong mount point opinions for the 187 C113s?

About to throw ATKs FR14s on them and was just going to split the difference of recommended (-10 to -11) and mount at 10.5. Boot is a 26.5 ZGTP.

But if a strong preference has emerged - I’m all ears.

[Marshal Olson]

@themutt - I’d say split the difference at -10.5 and call it a day!

@sylvan - heck yeah! Thanks for the notes.