Why does Mrs C dislike her Ripley, and a search for low rolling resistance

[jono]

So, we're going to try her on the Ardent rear tire, and I'll ride with to watch and make bike adjustments if I can extract any input from her.

Watch for bouncing on smooth terrain (or pavement) in that lowest gear. I know we've all been told there isn't any but COM height varies and the DW-link has the highest marketing to benefit ratio since FSR (and Ell...nevermind that).

[chaka]

I'm going with the weight difference being the primary culprit here. If geos are fairly close. I can definitely feel a 3lb difference... a full 24 oz water bottle is ~1.5lb. If I ride any of my bikes with two full bottles its a very noticeable difference than no bottles. As far as rolling resistance.... I think this would be far more noticeable on pavement than dirt. Unless you are comparing say a Hans Dampf 2.4 with a Racing Ralph 2.2. And of course if the weight can be trimmed in the wheels/tires great

[Bunion 2020]

Or, tell her to harden the fuck up and get in better shape.

No, do NOT do that!

[jackattack]

Thanks for all the input everyone. Some more back story:

The sum total of Mrs C's feedback on the Ripley AF has been that it's hard to pedal uphill, she doesn't have the leg strength, she likes how the bike climbs up over stuff, likes how it descends, feels like there's a bit too much pressure on her hands. That's it.

She rode it twice with her seatpost having slipped down too low in the frame, without noticing her knee extension was all wrong. I had loosened the clamp slightly because she said the dropper was sticking. She thought it was sticking because she was trying to drop without giving the saddle a little unweighting before pushing down.

She has made zero adjustments to any bike suspension she has ever owned, though I've walked her through what to look for multiple times, and what the adjustments do. Best I can do is set up sag and adjustments per manufacturer spec, bounce on the bike a little myself, and hope it's good.

This is my marriage, except I never get any feedback on bike fit or function until we’re in the middle of a ride.

[jamal]

Pretty happy with the new vittoria syerras. More substantial tread and casing than a pure xc tire, although just barely. Measure a touch over 2.4 on my 30mm rims. There's also the mezcal which I've used for years mostly as a rear tire. super fast, grippy for an xc tire, and comes in 2.6.

Adding a bit of air to the shock and/or suggesting locking it out might help too.

[Quadzilla]

I kinda went thru the same process with my bike setup a few months ago. I have a SC Hightower V2 so similar to your wife's new bike. I made the mistake of getting it with 2.8 27.5 as that was a option when I bought it. I hated the setup and got some Ibis 35mm 29 wheels and put 2.35 Nobby Nics on them. I really like the setup, especially climbing but I destroyed the sidewalls in about two months and decided to put more burly tires on. I went with 2.5 DHF/Aggressors. This was a solid setup but really added up rolling resistance climbing. Pretty pain full on long sustained climbs. Anyway, took those off after nearly two seasons and put on some Rekon 2.4's F&R. Made a huge difference climbing especially on the blue level trails I normally ride. Downside was loss of grip on sand. I can live with that.

So, IMO, I think if you dump her 2.6's and went with something like I did, it would made a bigger difference than 3#'s of weight. She owns the bike so not much you can do about the weight and looks like you shortened the stem so not a whole lot more you can do.

[Andeh]

Thanks for all the input everyone. Some more back story:

The sum total of Mrs C's feedback on the Ripley AF has been that it's hard to pedal uphill, she doesn't have the leg strength, she likes how the bike climbs up over stuff, likes how it descends, feels like there's a bit too much pressure on her hands. That's it.

For the hands, that sounds like the saddle is pushing her weight forward onto the bars. I'd tilt the saddle nose up slightly (guessing it's actually down, try to get it level). Bring the bars up a little bit (this should actually push her weight back more).

Finally you could start with the saddle pushed back in the rails. On an old slack bike with like a 74 STA, the cranks are quite a bit in front of the saddle, so her riding muscles were biased differently. A more upright position definitely fires different muscles. So sliding the saddle back will get it closer to that old position. As she rebalances the muscles, you can slide the saddle forward more for the better position.

[TahoeJ]

From 28# to 31#?

Think in terms of percentages. It's 10% heavier. That's a lot.

[Dantheman]

I'm going with the 2.6s. Plus tires are always dumb but they're extra dumb on a snappy XC bike.

[El Chupacabra]

Think in terms of percentages. It's 10% heavier. That's a lot.

Yes, it's 10%. But that, alone, should not be the difference between "I can ride this trail up just fine" and "I can't ride it up at all, and came home crying."

If adding two water bottles to a bicycle turns it from rideable into unrideable... that doesn't make sense.

I also suspect the 2.6 tires as the most likely culprit. Test ride tomorrow should shed some light.

[Canada1]

For my daughter who races at a whopping 75#, I use tires I would never dream of for me. Ardent race, racing Ralph and ikons. She has never torn a side wall and seems to have more than enough traction. I think the tires / rolling weight is huge for the petite rider.

[stuckathuntermtn]

You can get pretty big, small treaded tires.
Also, the Kennebec/Cumberland combo from terravail looks awesome for big rims. Wish it would fit on my bike.
Also, the head angle is pretty slack, right? Make sure the seat tilt is correct, even a pubic hair's width nose low, and all the way forward. My FS was feeling slow, but I think it's an upper body thing, not lower. And it's probably slower than my hardtail, lol.

[Falcon3]

I also suspect the 2.6 tires as the most likely culprit. Test ride tomorrow should shed some light.

FYI I have the same rims on the Ripmo and a 2.35 is as narrow as I’d go. I tried a Maxxis 2.3 and it blew off the rim, the Vittoria 2.35 (V is larger volume than Maxxis anyway) fit nicely and don’t look super out of place on those 35mm rims.

[Tailwind]

I’ve been down this road with my wife, a few thoughts:

1. modern geo ‘feels’ slower on climbs, which can be discouraging, which can lead to a negative headspace that makes you perform worse. There is likely some part of this involved.
2. Lighter riders notice weight so much more. Especially wheel weight. I feel a big difference when I drop 300 grams from my wheel / tire combo but for my wife who weights 50% less than I do… 300 grams is a MASSIVE change. The torque required to accelerate a 1100 gram Minion is easier is easier for me to generate. Keeping my wife on 800 gram tires and getting some used carbon wheels has helped out a bunch.
3. Tire rolling resistance matters a lot as well. As an example… a tire that takes 20 watts of rolling resistance to turn over. If I put out 150watts to get my heavier frame up a climb and my wife needs to put out 100 watts to keep up with me. The tire is taking 13.4% of my power and 20% of her power… so basically she’s loosing a larger percentage to friction. Going to a slower rolling tire… (let’s say 30 watts) she’s now loosing 30% of her power (10% increase) and I’m loosing 20% (6.6% increase). I may notice the slower tire… but less than she does. There is likely more granularity in the actual drag but I think the point holds that lighter riders notice drag more. Putting Minions on my wife’s bike slowed her down a lot…
4. lighter riders are less likely to tear sidewalks and require less grip to stop/turn/accelerate. A tire that doesn’t provide enough grip or durability for a 180lb rider may well be just fine for a 130 lbs rider. Basically : A maxxis Ikon may provide the same grip for a 130 lbs rider as a Maxxis Aggressor for a 180 lbs rider when you accelerate or mash the brakes. Very rough example but I’ve shifted away from buying the tires I like for my wife.

TLDR get some narrower lighter rims and faster rolling tires.

[jono]

Lighter wheels and tires, yes for sure. One quibble: tires' rolling resistance is at least mostly proportional to weight carried, so definitely not a constant power drag for a given tire.

That's not to say stick with high drag tires, obviously, just that the usual compromise between the up and the down is still applicable, just different.

[El Chupacabra]

Update from today's ride with Ardent rear tire: mid-ride adjustments were adding another 10 psi to the rear shock, and sliding the saddle rearward as far as it would go (to mimic a slacker STA). Mrs C noticed an improvement for the better, but still not solving everything.

The stem is as high as it can go on this steerer tube, so to raise the handlebars more means a high-rise riser bar, which I don't have lying around.

She said to leave it as is for one more ride, before making any other changes. We'll see how it goes.

I'm getting close to concluding that perhaps she should just ride XC bikes -- things with 100mm travel and 2.2 tires like a Specialized Fast Trak or any of the Schwalbes that look like gravel tires. Bikes that I would find terrifying and unrideable at any speed. Sigh.

[JPaul]

Hey Chup,

I’m guessing the new bike & tire swapping means likely not tubeless yet -> if not, I’d say do that next with one of the fast rollers you have on hand.

IMO the 3 lbs is not an issue here (I know others differ…), but going tubeless will lose some of that, and let the more supple/light tires you have do their thing best.

If already tubeless:
- ignore this
- you have my sympathy for all of the extra effort to trying different tires!

Also, Tailwind’s point #1 is a good one -> maybe timing her on sections compared to her old ride may help her understand if she is/isn’t climbing as well or better. Doesn’t address her comfort, but may be some positive feedback for her in there.

[panchosdad]

How about riding with the shock in a trail or firm position? Makes a big difference to me on smoother trails.

[El Chupacabra]

It's tubeless. I've gone through a liter of sealant on this bike in the month we've had it...

Timing on climbs / speed of climbs isn't the issue so much as she just stops, and says she can't climb. Full stop. Tears.

I had her try the rear shock in "trail" and in firm positions. She liked it better when I added another 10 psi, and ran it open. Again, minimal useful feedback.

I spent some time this afternoon looking at Santa Cruz Blur online. I think I'd hate every minute riding one. Apparently they're light, which seems to be the only thing that matters here.

[homemadesalsa]

OK I have a question that you probably answered up-thread:

What's the chainring size? If it's 32 or 30, you can probably drop it to a 28 pretty easily. That gives a gal another gear or two down at the granny range. Makes a big difference for me (at 5.5, 130#).

[XXX-er]

I did that ^^went from 30 to 28 on a 5.5 yeti cuz locally its all uphill, I had Raceface Affect splined cranks on the yeti so they accommodated a 28 chain ring no problem but I did need to take out a couple links

then I went E-bike, Braaap

[joetron]

I’m with Toast. Get rid of those silly 35mm rims. 30mm or even 27mm with 2.4 tires would be the ticket.


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[schuss]

I think it's been covered extensively, but you're going from a somewhat efficiency focused Ripley (with the more XCish Geo) to a heavier bike with wider tires and slacker geo. Of course it's going to pedal worse uphill.

[grskier]

2.4" or so tires vs what you have on there are more betterer in a few ways, mass and contact patch primarily....
You may also have gotten to the brown lens zone.
Now that the bike has been tinted brown, you could fix everything and its still brown.

[El Chupacabra]

Another possibility on sizing-related issues: this is a medium Ripley AF, which Ibis suggests for riders 5'3" to 5'8". Ibis suggests the large for 5'7" to 6'1". Mrs C is 5'9", and I picked the medium size for the AF based on the geometry compared to her old Ripley (a large) - aside from the HTA / STA, many of the other measurements were close (reach, ETT, stack).

The AF has a 45mm stem on it, stock. Worth trying a longer stem? Wondering if it would aid in climbing. Her old bike had a 70mm stem.