Antiwork

[Conundrum]

If they're spending the time fucking off, is it really a loss if they quit? Seems like the honest way to approach it.

[Bunion 2020]

Like I said a few days ago after thing went south, it felt GOOD to walk away. Some of us have been around long enough to be able to sniff out a turd from miles away. Nobody has to put up with abusive contracts.

Every client I have decided to walk away from has been a victory and my earnings went up afterwards. I love being a 1099 sub.

[californiagrown]

One of the antiworkers threatened to quit today due to them not getting promoted and having to return to hybrid. It has been interesting to see just how vocal people will get about refusing to even try. I honestly can't imagine people having the balls to do that even just a few years ago.

I had this conversation with one of my staff who was very indignant about not getting the same promotions/pay as one of my other staff. The indignant one logs on at 915ish, off at 430ish, walks his dogs and takes a long lunch, separately, puts in minimal effort on QAQCing his own work, and generally does C+/B- work. The other works remotely from all over the world, but is online at 7, off at 4-430, always available during the workday, does great detailed work, actively solicits general knowledge from her superiors and is a stud.

It's fine to be anti work... Just don't be surprised when you fall behind harder workers.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Do we have any HR people in here? Can you get written up or fired for threatening to quit.

I had a guy do that once. I talked to him in private after his temper tantrum and asked if he was quitting on threatening to quit. He pussed out and said he say threatening to quit so I went asked him for him time card, wrote him a check and fired him.

Leverage bitches, leverages.

[MontuckyFried]

Every client I have decided to walk away from has been a victory and my earnings went up afterwards. I love being a 1099 sub.

And there ya have it, folks! Bunion knows what's up.

[mcski]

I had a guy do that once. I talked to him in private after his temper tantrum and asked if he was quitting on threatening to quit. .

https://youtu.be/IW78swzn_Bs

And Larry did it in real life

[Conundrum]

Depends on the state. Idaho, yeah, you could fire the fake quitter.

[Bunion 2020]

And there ya have it, folks! Bunion knows what's up.

Only because I am in high demand and have little to no competition.

[Toadman]

Do we have any HR people in here? Can you get written up or fired for threatening to quit.

I had a guy do that once. I talked to him in private after his temper tantrum and asked if he was quitting on threatening to quit. He pussed out and said he say threatening to quit so I went asked him for him time card, wrote him a check and fired him.

Leverage bitches, leverages.

Well, where I have worked, that wouldn't work. Where I currently work, you need lots of paperwork and the proper investigations need to happen. i's need to be dotted, t's need to be crossed. HR has very strict rules about firing someone. There are of course a few circumstances where firing someone on the spot still takes some documentation. But generally, and this has happened twice that I know of where two co-workers got into physical fights. Those are pretty easy HR fireable offenses. Threatening to quit is not one of them, at least not at my current employer. I guess you could egg the person on if they threaten to quit. Most times they back down and chicken out. Then you have to put them on a PIP and hope they decide to quit. Then they usually do just enough to keep in good graces before sliding back into old habits. Had that happen with a former employee. He managed to string HR and the company along for about 3 years before finally getting fired. Some people are really good at gaming the system.

[californiagrown]

Then you have to put them on a PIP and hope they decide to quit. Then they usually do just enough to keep in good graces before sliding back into old habits. Had that happen with a former employee. He managed to string HR and the company along for about 3 years before finally getting fired. Some people are really good at gaming the system.

Yep, we have to document an initial meeting between employee and managment about performance/issues, put them on a 6 week improvment plan, and only then can we fire them. We did that with someone once, and on the very last day of his improvement plan he went to HR claiming mental health issues and took a paid extended leave for another couple months, at which point we apparently had to go through the whole rig amoral a second time to get his ass out of there. But he had it coming- produced shitty work, how late he showed up became a joke as the over under was noon (for a 8-5 job). etc.

[MakersTeleMark]

Do we have any HR people in here? Can you get written up or fired for threatening to quit.

I had a guy do that once. I talked to him in private after his temper tantrum and asked if he was quitting on threatening to quit. He pussed out and said he say threatening to quit so I went asked him for him time card, wrote him a check and fired him.

Leverage bitches, leverages.

Barring an employment agreement to the contrary, in Colorado, you are good to go, and so is he.

[Mustonen]

If your state is at will you can get fired for any reason or no reason. You can still get sued for allegations of wrongful termination and even if not, they can claim unemployment and that’ll fuck up the premiums you have to pay.

And even without that people are damn expensive and good people are hard to find so you don’t want your managers tossing away good assets because they have thin skins and fragile egos and don’t know how to deal with conflict.

Documentation of termination for cause is the money smart move no matter what, even if it isn’t strictly required. Can you fire them for threatening to quit? Sure. Better to fire them for creating conflict and contributing to an unstable work environment. Better still if you’d had previous documentation of this guy being a shitbag to work with in ways detrimental to morale, team chemistry, or productivity that included a clear directive to cease engaging in said behavior or face consequences up to and including.

And maybe you still get sued. But probably not. And if you do maybe you’ll win. But chances are they’ll just file unemployment and you can fight it if you want.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[MakersTeleMark]

If your state is at will you can get fired for any reason or no reason. You can still get sued for allegations of wrongful termination and even if not, they can claim unemployment and that’ll fuck up the premiums you have to pay.

And even without that people are damn expensive and good people are hard to find so you don’t want your managers tossing away good assets because they have thin skins and fragile egos and don’t know how to deal with conflict.

Documentation of termination for cause is the money smart move no matter what, even if it isn’t strictly required. Can you fire them for threatening to quit? Sure. Better to fire them for creating conflict and contributing to an unstable work environment. Better still if you’d had previous documentation of this guy being a shitbag to work with in ways detrimental to morale, team chemistry, or productivity that included a clear directive to cease engaging in said behavior or face consequences up to and including.

And maybe you still get sued. But probably not. And if you do maybe you’ll win. But chances are they’ll just file unemployment and you can fight it if you want.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Getting fired in Colorado does not entitle you to unemployment. Fact. You can posit all you want on the internets and all, but you might want to stay in your lane on this one.

[Mustonen]

Getting fired in Colorado does not entitle you to unemployment. Fact. You can posit all you want on the internets and all, but you might want to stay in your lane on this one.

That’s not really what I said, sport. I said they can file and you’re in a better spot if you can document that you fired somebody for cause, should you choose to fight that fight. But being fired without cause will get you unemployment most places.

Fact.

For an attorney you’d think you’d bring better reading comprehension to the table.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Fuck. No doubt my small contracting business is an HR nightmare. I mean, I fire myself atleast once a week and I don't even have a manilla folder with my name on in.

On of the many reasons that I don't have employees anymore is that compliance is really expensive. I just felt so frequently that a was hustling for my guys paycheck. Hence why I think, at least in the trades, IC is the future. If you are something better than the bottom of the barrel shit bag, it is better for everyone. On balance, more money goes is the pockets of those that actually get shit done versus the government(s), accountants, attorneys and so on.

So many employees are milkers. No awareness around their number job being to make the business money. I always provided a path forward with raises, training, tool purchase program, very flexible schedule and so on. My good guys became ICs and some of them bid work back to me which was the goal. 80% became somebody else's problem.

So yeah, their are 2 sides to the "Anti Work" conversation. Everyone loves a hustler, most people don't want to hustle. So if you are that guy or girl that gets that the fact that ass kickers get paid, stand tall and go git ya sum. If not, well we've got work to do in this country in terms of outlining your life. Because "comfy life" is circling the drain for those that just keep it in second gear.

Looks for a government or corporate job. Try and be on time, don't rock the boat, don't bitch too loud in the lunch room and cross your fingers. Maybe you'll get to go skiing weekends on your time off.

[californiagrown]

So if you are that guy or girl that gets that the fact that ass kickers get paid, stand tall and go git ya sum. If not, well we've got work to do in this country in terms of outlining your life. Because "comfy life" is circling the drain for those that just keep it in second gear.

Dana white is a bit of a loudmouthed douchebag, but, he does have a pretty decent underlying point here, IMO. Its really easy to get ahead compared to your peers now, simply by working hard- something that was just culturally expected in the generations prior and didnt set you apart. Now, it will, and it does IME. But, and here is the key, for many people the juice isnt worth the squeeze and so they are happy getting less juice. The problem comes when folks feel entitled to a ton of juice, without squeezing.

(and yes youll have to get over the alpha male/gungho thematics of the video to get the general point).

[Foggy_Goggles]

The thing is, its not binary. You can be anti bullshit, fuck Lumberg um kay, and pro pay for performance, cut the fat, master of your own destinty.

But if you are antiwork, to me, thats antipaycheck.

[californiagrown]

You can be anti bullshit, fuck Lumberg um kay, and pro pay for performance, cut the fat, master of your own destinty.

Agreed, and you should be. But if you are going to work 40 good hours/week with a HARD cutoff at 40, dont be surprised if jenny-dogooder who works a hard 45-50hrs/week gets that promotion you wanted. I have younger staff who is surprised. Its almost like some folks think the workplace is like school where if you get a passing grade, you continue on to the next grade/job title, and thats just not how it works.

IMO the key to happiness/success in the workplace is to know your value and not be afraid to leverage it, and to always be assessing if the juice is worth the squeeze.

[MontuckyFried]

Agreed, and you should be. But if you are going to work 40 good hours/week with a HARD cutoff at 40, dont be surprised if jenny-dogooder who works a hard 45-50hrs/week gets that promotion you wanted. I have younger staff who is surprised. Its almost like some folks think the workplace is like school where if you get a passing grade, you continue on to the next grade/job title, and thats just not how it works.

While you're correct in principle, what is depressing however is witnessing the reality of how SO many people somehow seem to fail upward. True from corporations to politics. Not that I'll let that stop me from pressing forward and working my ass off to get ahead, but I'm not gonna lie. It stings a little when you see it happen around you over and over again.

Much as I want to believe it's all about hard work and grit (and it absolutely IS for us regular folk), I've noticed that being connected to the right people seems to matter a helluva lot more. Nepotism seems to be the key to REAL, big money success. Haha. We've all seen too many absolute imbeciles in the C-suite to believe otherwise. It's goddam painful sometimes when you, your team, and maybe even great middle managers, are all held back in an organization despite stellar performance and bringing in record profits for them, just for them to hire some jackoff they knew from their frat as your new VP, who knows NOTHING about your industry or business, and then proceeds to drive your company into the ground right before your very eyes. And then watch them get hired right over again in another company because "Hey! Executive experience!" and of course they happen to know someone. This is it but one personal experience of many, but is perhaps the most relatable since we've all seen so many great companies get wrekt over the years due to executive incompetence.

[m2711c]

It’s like you’ve never even heard of the Peter principal.

[MontuckyFried]

Only because I am in high demand and have little to no competition.

That's awesome. How did you get into your line of work anyway if you don't mind me asking? You're right. It's VERY specific, so I'm curious how you (A) identified the need to begin with, and (B) were able to enter the field to address the need. Also interesting how you were able to fly under the radar! That was one of the BIGGEST mistakes I've ever made in business was bringing attention to myself. I thought that it was necessary to hustle and grind, advertise, etc. to get my name out there to land the work, but instead it got a target painted on my back. I could write a book about hard lessons learned. What NOT to do with an ambitious startup company. Haha.

[m2711c]

Fuck. No doubt my small contracting business is an HR nightmare. I mean, I fire myself atleast once a week and I don't even have a manilla folder with my name on in.

On of the many reasons that I don't have employees anymore is that compliance is really expensive. I just felt so frequently that a was hustling for my guys paycheck. Hence why I think, at least in the trades, IC is the future. If you are something better than the bottom of the barrel shit bag, it is better for everyone. On balance, more money goes is the pockets of those that actually get shit done versus the government(s), accountants, attorneys and so on.

So many employees are milkers. No awareness around their number job being to make the business money. I always provided a path forward with raises, training, tool purchase program, very flexible schedule and so on. My good guys became ICs and some of them bid work back to me which was the goal. 80% became somebody else's problem.

So yeah, their are 2 sides to the "Anti Work" conversation. Everyone loves a hustler, most people don't want to hustle. So if you are that guy or girl that gets that the fact that ass kickers get paid, stand tall and go git ya sum. If not, well we've got work to do in this country in terms of outlining your life. Because "comfy life" is circling the drain for those that just keep it in second gear.

Looks for a government or corporate job. Try and be on time, don't rock the boat, don't bitch too loud in the lunch room and cross your fingers. Maybe you'll get to go skiing weekends on your time off.

that’s fairly one-sided isn’t it?


not everybody has the same life goals as you.

sometimes going along to get along, works out just fine.


i’ve been on both sides of that fence. I had my own business for a good long time. Made a shit load of money doing it too. Set my own hours and all that kind of bullshit. or so I told myself.

in reality, I was working minimum 60 hour weeks and usually 80 hours or more. Had enough work to work my own ass off, but not enough to support a lot of other people working in their asses off.

cashed out and banked it. Hooked up with the reasonable slow life on the canal. Work to the terms of the contract and no more. Occasionally show up late for work and always be rockin’ that damned boat ….

yet, I still get to leave on time. At the end of my day I don’t have to worry about any of my shit until I get back onto the next shift. Got no problem finding time to go skiing. Got so much fucking leave time backed up I can go skiing for several months without even putting a dent in it. promotions still come along as the people above me die. pretty soon these fuckers are going to pay me to stay home from work.


all in all, I think that’s pretty good fucking deal.








fact.

[Toadman]

Yep, we have to document an initial meeting between employee and managment about performance/issues, put them on a 6 week improvment plan, and only then can we fire them. We did that with someone once, and on the very last day of his improvement plan he went to HR claiming mental health issues and took a paid extended leave for another couple months, at which point we apparently had to go through the whole rig amoral a second time to get his ass out of there. But he had it coming- produced shitty work, how late he showed up became a joke as the over under was noon (for a 8-5 job). etc.

LOL - Yes, we had something very similar happen in our Cypress, CA office. She was actually a pretty high performer when she first came on board but then the work load got to her and she went downhill. She pulled the mental health card and it was several months on short term disability under Calif. labor laws. Then she came back at the same salary but reduced responsibilities. That rubbed people the wrong way. Took another year before she finally was pushed out. Everyone in the office, which was only about a dozen people resented her. So, the work place environment was a bit toxic towards her to say the least.

[MontuckyFried]

It’s like you’ve never even heard of the Peter principal.

Oh yeah!!! That explains SO much! Then there's the inverse to that, which is that the most competent, hard working people are also intentionally held back because they're too good at their jobs to let leave their current station. The incompetent leadership doesn't dare promote the very people who are making them look good in the board meetings. Kinda screwed up when you think about it!

[californiagrown]

Oh yeah!!! That explains SO much! Then there's the inverse to that, which is that the most competent, hard working people are also intentionally held back because they're too good at their jobs to let leave their current station. The incompetent leadership doesn't dare promote the very people who are making them look good in the board meetings. Kinda screwed up when you think about it!

You seem to think that if you do your literal job description and nothing else that you should get promoted. This is career/job 101- if you want to move up then you need to show you are capable of taking on that next role, AND you need to make sure there is someone who can step in and fill your old roll. This means you need to make sure you are mentoring and training up your direct reports.