Antiwork

[Bunion 2020]

I'm all about 7.5.

[Meadow Skipper]

If you're working 6+days a week, even if you're self employed, IMO you're doing it wrong.

Wildland fire would like a word…actually, with this entire thread or at least the part about working hard if not self-employed. Though granted it’s a niche occupation.

[californiagrown]

Wildland fire would like a word…actually, with this entire thread. Though granted it’s a niche occupation.

How much time off does wildland fire get October-April?

[XXX-er]

I remember the buzz word so how long ago was the six sigma popular ?

they seemed to trot out another one every year or so

IME if you work at 10/10th all the time you burn out fast and they expect 10/10ths all the time,

Instead go 9/10ths that way when you need that extra push you can go to 11

but its not really 11 its only 10 but it looks like 11

[XXX-er]

How much time off does wildland fire get October-April?

up here they are talking about employing at least some of the people year round

[Meadow Skipper]

How much time off does wildland fire get October-April?

Yeah, I was waiting for that.

[Timberridge]

I thought everyone here was over 70 and retired?

[riser4]

I thought everyone here was over 70 and retired?

Not over 70 and very much wish I was retired. I fucked around in my 20s which put me way behind in retirement savings.

[MontuckyFried]

things I don't understand but whatever

It's ok. You don't have to understand. Just be aware you've been missing out for real. Sometimes chicks be like:



It's next level. Facts.

[oldnew_guy]

How much time off does wildland fire get October-April?

USFS and BLM are pushing hard to convert all Permanent Seasonal Employees from 13/13 or 18/8 (6 months and 9 month tours) to 26/0 Permanent Full Time for GS5's and up. So for some people this means working a standard 2080 hour year, plus a 1000+ hour overtime season in the summer.

[MontuckyFried]

Ya know the Its Just a Dog thread?

Unless you are working for yourself, it is just a Job.

Ain't that the truth. Words of wisdom right there. Gotta love the Saturday night texts/e-mails from the workaholics about how much an "emergency" some bullcrap is that can TOTALLY wait until Monday morning.

[oldnew_guy]

Read carefully. Working hard for yourself is different than working hard for someone else when the marginal benefit to you is zero. I didn't suggest that someone shouldn't do the former.

In any case, money is a necessary means to get stuff to live a happy life. It's not an end in itself. The score that I care about is how much time I have to do the things I love, not the size of my accounts.

If you're working 6+days a week, even if you're self employed, IMO you're doing it wrong.

And we have a legal and regulatory environment that rewards people for doing nothing more than skimming the cream off of financial transactions. It's pretty fucked that people that do nothing more than exploit loopholes in the finance system make billions and people who do work that actually benefits society make squat in comparison

There are important jobs like yours and there are supremely unimportant jobs like managing a hedge fund, or anything that requires an MBA. Unfortunately we have tricked ourselves into thinking the unimportant jobs are important and worth making billions of dollars at the expense of the actually important jobs.

Yep. It was worth it when i was lining my own pocket, both at the time and for the future (i built a nice trusted client list, and valuable skills and knowledge by busting my ass that will serve me in the years to come). But, i realized that the juice wasnt worth the squeeze (IMO) at higher levels within this new company so ive backed off considerably. I think it is VERY important to constantly evaluate if the juice is worth the squeeze, and make adjustments to how hard you squeeze.

Getting some real commie vibes around here.

[californiagrown]

USFS and BLM are pushing hard to convert all Permanent Seasonal Employees from 13/13 or 18/8 (6 months and 9 month tours) to 26/0 Permanent Full Time for GS5's and up. So for some people this means working a standard 2080 hour year, plus a 1000+ hour overtime season in the summer.

Genuinely curious how this will work. Why would they do this- doesnt seem like there would be much more than logistics/HR work to do for 5 months out of the year and that work is mostly done by current staffing, right? So what new offseason workload are they counting on?

[Meadow Skipper]

Genuinely curious how this will work. Why would they do this- doesnt seem like there would be much more than logistics/HR work to do for 5 months out of the year and that work is mostly done by current staffing, right? So what new offseason workload are they counting on?

The FS is burning right now outside of Santa Fe, in the snow. Fuels/mitigation/ecosystem improvement work, writing plans, and traveling to other units for fuels work can easily fill winters for the fire folks. And there’s facilities to work on, training to do, etc.

[mtnjam]

I remember the buzz word so how long ago was the six sigma popular ?

they seemed to trot out another one every year or so

IME if you work at 10/10th all the time you burn out fast and they expect 10/10ths all the time,

Instead go 9/10ths that way when you need that extra push you can go to 11

but its not really 11 its only 10 but it looks like 11

The Six Sigma logic is about as logical as Spinal Tap, speaking of which, I'm sure spinal taps aren't very well reimbursed anymore so there goes that...

Our organization (Trinity Health) made the Six Sigma (kaizon and black belts, etc) really popular about 10 years ago and for some reason it seems to have stuck with our senior leadership as an important cost saving department. Yeah, the Six Sigma idea works great for producing microchips and inanimate objects, but when it comes to patient care it gets REAL fuzzy.

[Supermoon]

Getting some real commie vibes around here.

Isn’t capitalism all about the balance between profit and costs? Why shouldn’t capitalists use that calculation when it comes to their labor.

[zion zig zag]

Genuinely curious how this will work. Why would they do this- doesnt seem like there would be much more than logistics/HR work to do for 5 months out of the year and that work is mostly done by current staffing, right? So what new offseason workload are they counting on?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Fire

Wildland fire season is now year around. Thanks climate change.

[skaredshtles]

The FS is burning right now outside of Santa Fe, in the snow. Fuels/mitigation/ecosystem improvement work, writing plans, and traveling to other units for fuels work can easily fill winters for the fire folks. And there’s facilities to work on, training to do, etc.

I would think that mitigation alone could keep a *lot* of people employed full-time year around.

[zion zig zag]

I would think that mitigation alone could keep a *lot* of people employed full-time year around.

Gotta rake those forest floors. Like in Norway.

[XXX-er]

The Six Sigma logic is about as logical as Spinal Tap, speaking of which, I'm sure spinal taps aren't very well reimbursed anymore so there goes that...

Our organization (Trinity Health) made the Six Sigma (kaizon and black belts, etc) really popular about 10 years ago and for some reason it seems to have stuck with our senior leadership as an important cost saving department. Yeah, the Six Sigma idea works great for producing microchips and inanimate objects, but when it comes to patient care it gets REAL fuzzy.

well it must must have got drug out again it out cuz I rmember it from way further back than that

and then all this talk made me remember it was Motorola's fault

https://www.managementstudyguide.com...igma-story.htm

[allmountainsnowskating]

ugh



things I don't understand but whatever



I guess I'm driven so working like a fool is something I do yes six day weeks at times and long days
honestly I haven't worked much since thanksgiving after spending 3 weeks in south america
I take 10 weeks off a year have lots of toys and vacation well guess I'm going to Hawaii again this year and a trip to jordan and qatar and abu dhabi are being figured out I'm not interested but a mulitnational corporation might pick up some of the tab so why not

over working to enjoy oneself is worth it at times I'll be moving onto my second career in a 3 years or less and be enjoying life even more

Working hard or hardly working?

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[oldnew_guy]

Genuinely curious how this will work. Why would they do this- doesnt seem like there would be much more than logistics/HR work to do for 5 months out of the year and that work is mostly done by current staffing, right? So what new offseason workload are they counting on?

First of all - USFS HR sucks. Like, really sucks. Some years it was hard to even onboard people and get them paid. I knew people that went past several paycheck dates without pay.

Couple things-

First is that fire seasons are longer.

There is also a 10 year strategy to massively increase fuels treatment, so at least some of those people would be working on fuels projects, planning, etc.

At the core, FF can't pay their bills and the feds are hemorrhaging staff to state/local/private outfits or totally different jobs, who pay better, have better benefits, better work/life. So seemingly part of the theory in addition to pay increases is to have them work more across the year so they have consistent pay.

[nickwm21]

If you're working 6+days a week, even if you're self employed, IMO you're doing it wrong.

A couple billion humans on this planet have to work 6+ days a week in order to survive. I guess they are all doing it wrong…..



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[Bunion 2020]

Nope they just didn't win the birth lottery.

[ötzi]

Gotta rake those forest floors. Like in Norway.

Didn't the orange antichrist say something about raking the forests?