If only there was something we could do...

[SumJongGuy]

I mean, 60mm mortars would be kinda cool to use at the range.

Oh they had the right to arm themselves.. until they surrendered..

[SumJongGuy]

congratulations, C.

your worldwide agreement will be the first. time. Ever.

less one - Because I'm out.


when we are going to excuse someone for propping a door Open - Because she closed it but the lock was disabled -

it just becomes a Murphy's law tragedy.

)

You need to check your facts again. The "door propped open" narrative has been debunked. The security footage shows clearly that the teacher who went out to retrieve the phone SHUT THE DOOR. It was the latch that failed, not the teacher.

If we're giving up the notion of 20th century traditional school in favor of prison environment learning, we might as well go back to remote learning.. Talk about an adverse mental health situation for our kids....

The costs to turn our schools (and churches and grocery stores and malls and event venues and...) .. or just ALL the schools in to AR proof fortresses far exceeds the point where they just say fuck it and go back to remote learning..

You seem hell bent on keeping these high velocity giant magazine capacity weapons in the same category as a pump shotgun or bolt action deer rifle. That's were you've lost me in terms of 2nd Amendment rights..

[mcphee]

https://youtu.be/Uqn0wFHGYGc

[Core Shot]

postscript.

If you think the Second Amendment is going to protect the State(s) from the Federal government, you might want to review how that worked-out for The Confederate States of America.

True.
I’d like to see an alternate universe where the south won.
I think slavery would have ended pretty quick. Hope so.

But states rights vs federal power was the big deal.
Lincoln didn’t give a fuck about any slave or black person.

[Bunion 2020]

True.
I’d like to see an alternate universe where the south won.
I think slavery would have ended pretty quick. Hope so.

Go nutz
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/...istory_Fiction

But states rights vs federal power was the big deal.
Lincoln didn’t give a fuck about any slave or black person.

Uh huh, sure buddy.

[skiJ]

'Recess Outside' isn't supposed to ever be in air quotes. It isn't a whimsical notion. Daylight & air are fundamental to our physical and mental health & happiness, as is freedom to move our bodies. It allows kids to learn when they are inside.

these aren't quaint, dated notions to give up so that gun fetishists can keep gunning

Twelve-dots -
I appreciate your post.
How long is an elementary school day ?
seven hours / six hours ?

Daylight and air - (?)
Safety First.
If Recess Outside ( in single quotes, Because it seems to be expected Policy ; I was not "quoting" anything )
... If Recess Outside is required to a six hour or seven hour school day ,,, this is familiar to me...

the kids want to be Safe.


I am not making any concessions to the "gun fetishists" / the diseased kids executing these killings seeking to be killed ,,, I do not consider a death wish to be a 'fetish' - but we have to clarify our terms.

"whimsical" is your term -
again, safety of the twentieth century doesn't provide Safety in 2022
( elementary schools in my community were fenced in the 1970s to keep kids from running into the streets and being struck by passing cars... )

times have changed.

I support gun regulation. waiting periods. get rid of assault rifles ( citizen ownership. want an assault rifle ? Join the NationalGuard. ). Not 'red flag lists' ( quoted as proposed policy ) - want a semi-automatic ? bring Notarized testimonials, including an MD.
I support gun regulation.

And schools can be safer in September.

I am looking forward to seeing who gets blamed for the disabled door lock ( rolleyes )

Twelve-dot. I appreciate your post.

skiJ

[MultiVerse]

Lincoln didn’t give a fuck about any slave or black person.

This belief is based on comments Lincoln made while campaigning. He knew at the time expressing his true beliefs would have cost him the election. Not only was Lincoln sympathetic to the plight of slaves before the war, but as the Civil War progressed and freedmen fought heroically in spite of the fact Southern soldiers sought them out for egregious brutality, Lincoln increasingly saw the need for emancipation.

While there's no doubt Lincoln like most white Americans at the time was prejudiced against blacks, according to Frederick Douglass in the end Lincoln's words and actions expressed the ideals of racial equality:

“Some men there are who can face death and dangers, but have not the moral courage to contradict a prejudice or face ridicule. In daring to admit, nay in daring to invite a Negro to an audience at the White house, Mr. Lincoln did that which he knew would be offensive to the crowd and excite their ribaldry. It was saying to the country, I am President of the black people as well as the white, and I mean to respect their rights and feelings as men and as citizens.”

[anotherVTskibum]

If we're giving up the notion of 20th century traditional school in favor of prison environment learning, we might as well go back to remote learning.. Talk about an adverse mental health situation for our kids....

You're overlooking the biggest function of the American education system: babysitting. Remote learning requires someone on site supervising the remote learners, at least for younger students

You seem hell bent on keeping these high velocity giant magazine capacity weapons in the same category as a pump shotgun or bolt action deer rifle. That's were you've lost me in terms of 2nd Amendment rights..

I'm in 100% agreement that the self-loading/semiautomatic functionality, combined with larger-than-hunting magazines, has a big impact on the lethality of shootings.

However, throwing "high velocity" into the mix and then contrasting with a traditional hunting rifle is a serious misunderstanding and exactly the kind of factual error that pro-gun folks will suggest discredits someone's comments on the matter. While exact numbers will vary depending on actual projectile and loading characteristics, a 30-06 generally has a lot more muzzle energy than a 5.56 NATO round (slightly lower velocity and a lot more mass).

For visual learners, the larger rounds are 30-06, the smaller are either 5.56 NATO or .223 Remington, which most AR-15s shoot




Sent from my SM-G892A using TGR Forums mobile app

[Bunion 2020]

and exactly the kind of factual error that pro-gun folks will suggest discredits someone's comments on the matter.

I am so far past giving a shit about what the pro-gun faction thinks gives me or anyone else credibility.

[AK47bp]

I am so far past giving a shit about what the pro-gun faction thinks gives me or anyone else credibility.

Who’d of thought the pro gun crowd were a bunch of snowflakes. Makes total sense now that I think about it.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Bunion 2020]

Right? And I am a gun owner and hunter.

[bennymac]

I’m an expert in a field that has next to nothing to do with guns. I guarantee every adult has strong opinions on my topic despite them not being anything close to experts.

I’d like for one of our resident “you don’t know a short stock vs a slightly longer one so your request for sensible gun laws is discredited” come let me tell them their ideas are bullshit using the same “logic”. It’s too bad they probably wouldn’t grasp the double standard.

I’m embarrassed for humanity that adults even try to pass that off as a sensible counter argument.

[SumJongGuy]

You're overlooking the biggest function of the American education system: babysitting. Remote learning requires someone on site supervising the remote learners, at least for younger students


I'm in 100% agreement that the self-loading/semiautomatic functionality, combined with larger-than-hunting magazines, has a big impact on the lethality of shootings.

However, throwing "high velocity" into the mix and then contrasting with a traditional hunting rifle is a serious misunderstanding and exactly the kind of factual error that pro-gun folks will suggest discredits someone's comments on the matter. While exact numbers will vary depending on actual projectile and loading characteristics, a 30-06 generally has a lot more muzzle energy than a 5.56 NATO round (slightly lower velocity and a lot more mass).

For visual learners, the larger rounds are 30-06, the smaller are either 5.56 NATO or .223 Remington, which most AR-15s shoot




Sent from my SM-G892A using TGR Forums mobile app

The smaller diameter is also why they pierce vests easier.. and why I'm fine a handful of large bullets in the hunting rifle but not all in on people having 30+ in an AR.. It's high velocity AND large magazine capacity together that's the problem, not one or the other individually. Like 15 low velocity bullets in a nine doesn't bother me nor does 10 high velocity in a bold action hunting rifle.

[SumJongGuy]

And it's more than recess we lose turning our schools in to optional prisons. We lose sports, music, theater, all the stuff parents come to see live, all the traveling to other schools, state competitions, etc. I'd definitely rather get rid of the ARs (and similar capacity weapons) than all that stuff..

[skiJ]

Thank you for this ^ Summer.

tj

[NW_SKIER]

The smaller diameter is also why they pierce vests easier.. and why I'm fine a handful of large bullets in the hunting rifle but not all in on people having 30+ in an AR.. It's high velocity AND large magazine capacity together that's the problem, not one or the other individually. Like 15 low velocity bullets in a nine doesn't bother me nor does 10 high velocity in a bold action hunting rifle.

Uhhhhhh, no.

30.06 will go right through a cop vest dude.

[Buster Highmen]

This is useful and interesting background. Thanks for taking the time to write this up.

On this end of the planet, there's been a bit of academic writing on the cultural and historical reasons behind why Australia and the US evolved in different directions when it came to guns, even though we have a shared ancestor (Britain) and a similar history of violence and cruelty against the respective indigenous populations, but in our case with an arguably less "desirable" population and founding purpose. Y'know, the whole "settled by convicts/Australia is a glorified giant prison" thing.

A quick n' dirty search came up with this, but it's not the piece I'm thinking of. I'll try and find it again, it made a strong academic argument about why the US will never be able to culturally accept Australian-style laws due to historical and cultural differences in how each country was effectively established as an independent nation.

Part of it argues what I tried to dumb down to avoid waffling, so thanks for writing something a bit more cogent - that the US evidently saw (and still sees) a legal need to draft an amendment to the US Constitution specifically enshrining the rights of guns, whereas we never saw that same legal need for our Constitution. My argument rests in part on the fact that the US was established as an independent country long before us, following a fairly large and historically famous war that left a permanent and celebrated cultural memory (i.e. 4th of July is a very big deal), with drastically different players, motivations, alliances and outcomes.

Australia will never be the legal silver bullet that some American people wish it was when it comes to US gun control efforts, and while we don't mind offering up our evidence of, and experience with, a successful legal framework, we know there's bigger forces at play, combined with a radically different history, that we don't have to contend with.

Like it or not, the USA owes a beeeeg cultural debt to France as well.

[SumJongGuy]

Uhhhhhh, no.

30.06 will go right through a cop vest dude.

Ya but not 30 of them without reloading

[NW_SKIER]

Ya but not 30 of them without reloading

Who cares? You just said they wouldn't be as effective. I'm not arguing quantity. They are just as effective, or more. If it only takes one, it doesn't matter how many they have. The speed of the round is not a determining factor of it's effectiveness against a vest as much as it's shape and size in conjunction with it's speed.

Lay off the crack pipe.

[SumJongGuy]

Fun fact about the 2nd A and States rights and the Civil War. The Confederate states armed themselves with well regulated militias, in full authority of the US Constitution. However then they seceded, and attacked at Fort Sumter. At that point they were no longer protected by the US Constitution because they left and attacked..

[Bunion 2020]

So the Feds should have taken away their Gunzzzz?

[jfost]

Who cares? You just said they wouldn't be as effective. I'm not arguing quantity. They are just as effective, or more. If it only takes one, it doesn't matter how many they have. The speed of the round is not a determining factor of it's effectiveness against a vest as much as it's shape and size in conjunction with it's speed.

Lay off the crack pipe.

Fine, we’ll ban those too then. This is too easy.

[NW_SKIER]

Fine, we’ll ban those too then. This is too easy.

Crack pipes? I agree

[jfost]

Crack pipes? I agree

If crack pipes are outlawed, only outlaws will have crack pipes

News flash: gun grabbers don’t really care if they’re wrong calling it a silencer, or a clip, or a bump stock etc

[NW_SKIER]

If crack pipes are outlawed, only outlaws will have crack pipes

News flash: gun grabbers don’t really care if they’re wrong calling it a silencer, or a clip, or a bump stock etc

What if they lost their crack pipes in a boating accident?