If only there was something we could do...

[MultiVerse]

that's why kids were getting shot over thirty minutes into it

second - has it ever occurred to you that maybe we should get the shooter neutralized immediately to provide care for the wounded

are you really this stupid?

Of course police should get the shooter neutralized immediately. Why is explaining what happened always assumed to be an apology for what happened? Is that why people keep imagining different versions of what happened? So that they can fit events into some preconceived narrative? The fact is the shooter had cover and a backpack full of ammunition. The situation required a tactical breach and local police weren't up to the task.

[skiJ]

will we ever really know... (?)

The Official report will take weeks, it may take months -
there will likely be efforts to keep it confidential.

now there is a claim the Seven followed the shooter into the school and were repelled through a doorway ;
it hardly sounds like a tactical response to me ( - or a dedicated response. )

enough has been made of the "rush the shooter" claim, it is reasonable to offer all shooters cannot be treated equally...

There are some things to be learned from Alvarde -

I support efforts to increase gun regulation - including a renewed assault weapons ban
( there is no good reason for an 18year old to be buy or be sold an assault rifle. )

I believe we need to be careful what we wish for, Because it is my understanding recent efforts for gun control have had the opposite effect, including repeatedly increasing the number of guns held by citizens by personal choice.

I wish Trudeau and Canada Good luck ;
I hope they can pass And implement their proposal --


school Safety remains my concern and my priority.
This thread is no longer about that.

I hope you have a good week...

Thank you. tj

[MultiVerse]

Initial reports the shooter was engaged by a school resource officer were quickly walked back. And of course new details will emerge. The story always, always changes. With an event like this it's not so much a conspiracy as it is different people with different perspectives, oftentimes believing themselves more heroic than they actually were, say things that don't align with what actually happened. It's the Rashomon effect.

The broad brush strokes however haven't changed much since a couple of days after the shooting and are corroborated by numerous independent eyewitnesses, including the fact multiple police entered the building within minutes of the shooter.

[ticketchecker]

The AR-15 has become a middle finger to libtards who don't think it has a place in a civil society.

"Authoritarian forces in this country view the AR-15 as a central organizing symbol."

"The Iraq/Afghan wars helped create cultural conditions for the zeal to militarize civil society. The gun industry exploited this shift, and what emerged was fetishization of the AR-15"

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/st...i0Fh6mUMqX6s5Q

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ew-ryan-busse/

U S A !!!!!

[schuss]

Humans in general are relatively unreliable in behavior and consistency.
Given that a lot of damage happens in the first minutes and a response time of <5 minutes is relatively unrealistic, you need to limit the amount of damage an assailant can do per minute.
That m and limiting the types of guns people have access to as good luck dropping 9 people in under a minute (as referenced in the Ohio example)with a bolt action or similar. You also need waiting and training periods to provide more opportunities to identify risky individuals as a few minutes at a sales counter is not enough.
Mental health and other factors should also be addressed, but I challenge everyone to challenge those that blame mental health with: "ok, so what are you doing about that?".
In the most recent example mental health funding was cut by hundreds of millions prior and I guarantee it's not getting uncut.

[MTT]

Not the right place. But yes the right place. People all over the world use and have scary guns. The guns are not going away. Come up with a workable solution to the crazy. Sadly. More good people with guns. It’s the only workable solution

[MultiVerse]

It's not a workable solution. It is an indisputable fact more guns means more gun accidents, more suicides, and more gun violence. Gun violence already costs America nearly $300 billion a year.

The Rashomon effect mentioned above is defined in a modern context as "the naming of an epistemological framework—or ways of thinking, knowing, and remembering—for understanding complex and ambiguous situations".

A good guy with a gun is a motivated reasoning mental framework. It leads to the logical fallacy if a good a guy with a gun didn't stop the shooter then that can only mean no good guys with a gun were present. It's why a parent stopping the shooter "rings true" even though that's not what happened.

[SumJongGuy]

Take a look at the plate carrier the guy is wearing in the picture. He almost had his head blown off because he wasn't wearing a helmet. The other agent who had to borrow a gun from a civilian, had zero armor.

Im not sure why you are trying to offer this up as an excuse for the local Police.

I'm not offering it as an excuse for JUST these worthless public servants. I'm offering it up as a warning sign that LOTS of these cops are going to quit the force or at least refuse to engage against these weapons if they don't have decent protection over their vital organs. These engagements with AR15 armed thugs will be happening more and more. Any bets on how my prediction here plays out?

Ya, there will still be "hold my beer" bravery.. but there will also be more of the "NOPE!". I'm not equipped to survive being shot by that..

[waxman]

Canada is banning handguns and adding limits to rifles. Mandatory surrender for cash. (if they have the votes)

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/30/11020...-sales-imports

The entrepreneurs of Kahnawake will ignore and profit from this just like all the other "bans" on things here.

[MTT]

I'm not offering it as an excuse for JUST these worthless public servants. I'm offering it up as a warning sign that LOTS of these cops are going to quit the force or at least refuse to engage against these weapons if they don't have decent protection over their vital organs. These engagements with AR15 armed thugs will be happening more and more. Any bets on how my prediction here plays out?

Ya, there will still be "hold my beer" bravery.. but there will also be more of the "NOPE!". I'm not equipped to survive being shot by that..

The weird thing is. There were children in danger. I believe almost any armed American would run in and and shoot or get shot with no thought about themselves. Any decent human. Because fuckin kids. Wtf happened here?

[Ted Striker]

The entrepreneurs of Kahnawake will ignore and profit from this just like all the other "bans" on things here.

You kinda lost me there... they're the Oka/bridge blockade tribe, right? Are they a syndicate now?

[::: :::]

The weird thing is. There were children in danger. I believe almost any armed American would run in and and shoot or get shot with no thought about themselves. Any decent human. Because fuckin kids. Wtf happened here?

basically, your thesis doesn't hold water
so now that you know this, what will you do with that knowledge?

[SumJongGuy]

The weird thing is. There were children in danger. I believe almost any armed American would run in and and shoot or get shot with no thought about themselves. Any decent human. Because fuckin kids. Wtf happened here?

Some of them went in and tgot their own kids from other rooms though..

The AR-15 has become a middle finger to libtards who don't think it has a place in a civil society.

"Authoritarian forces in this country view the AR-15 as a central organizing symbol."

U S A !!!!!

The AR15 is a middle finger to free and fair elections.. So what if most Americans don't what what we want. Might makes right! Add in christian religious extremism...

[skiJ]

Not the right place. But yes the right place. People all over the world use and have scary guns. The guns are not going away. Come up with a workable solution to the crazy. Sadly. More good people with guns. It’s the only workable solution

It's not a workable solution. It is an indisputable fact more guns means more gun accidents, more suicides, and more gun violence. Gun violence already costs America nearly $300 billion a year.

The Rashomon effect mentioned above is defined in a modern context as "the naming of an epistemological framework—or ways of thinking, knowing, and remembering—for understanding complex and ambiguous situations".

A good guy with a gun is a motivated reasoning mental framework. It leads to the logical fallacy if a good a guy with a gun didn't stop the shooter then that can only mean no good guys with a gun were present. It's why a parent stopping the shooter "rings true" even though that's not what happened.

so there we have it - no compromise, no solution --

What are Jessica and her handgun going to do against an 18year old who wants to die with an assault rifle, that seven officers could not, MTT (?)

today, my only hope is that the younger and future generations do not have the fascination with GUNS! that middle-aged and older americans seem to have -
Maybe one day, we will have killed enough of ourselves (off) that younger (and future) ... will say, enough --

( yeah (yes), I know, the murderer was 18 -
There will always be a few...

But I will hope our descendants will be smarter than we are...


... more guns -

That is Not going to solve anything.

skiJ

[bennymac]

Has anyone else been hearing that the sicko was actually taken out by a parent not on duty not part of the police response? It’s ringing true to me. A dad who happens to work for border patrol. Went into the school. Got his kids to safety. Then went back in. And took the broken human out.

If true that’s fuckin wild

Anyone else hearing the same?

Also curious if the demon was on or had been on antidepressants. Every other one was

Other than that. I don’t understand how we have people amongst us who could do something like this. I just don’t understand.

I have my solution. These are strange days

Did you just wake up from a coma? You got the story all wrong but “it’s wringing true” to you?

Please provide evidence/link to back up your claim about antidepressants.

[DBdude]

basically, your thesis doesn't hold water
so now that you know this, what will you do with that knowledge?

watch alex jones

[MultiVerse]

Some of them went in and tgot their own kids from other rooms though..

Pictures show teachers & kids in other classrooms were evacuated by cops from multiple agencies. It doesn't appear to be a case of cops rushing in and only evacuating their own kids. Uvalde is only 75 miles from the border and border patrol is the nation's largest federal law enforcement agency, larger than the FBI, so the fact agents had kids in the school is not surprising and does not mean they only rescued their own kids.

[Ted Striker]

Then why are we trying to ban rifles?

But are we? I'm pretty sure we're doing nothing.

The Brady bill passed because he was a Republican. The AWB was part of Clinton's broader crime bill, which had bipartisan support. The senate vote was almost unanimous. Today, if Schumer proposed the senate cafeteria served bagels, the republicans would vote party line against.

Most people who want action on this would be happy if we could do a tenth of what Canada is doing, but even that isn't going to happen.

[Mazderati]

Bagels = jewish
Soros = jewish
Bagels = Soros

[AK47bp]

Bagels = jewish
Soros = jewish
Bagels = Soros

Now I’m hungry


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[MultiVerse]

Ewww, bagels are people

[Ted Striker]

But these days it's Soilent Blue and Soilent Red

[TahoeJ]

Time is a flat circle... just like this thread.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Inverse. We need to address the domestic terrorism issue. It overlaps with the AR-15 LARP issue.

Yes, I wasn't seriously suggesting we need highly trained tactical anti-terrorism squads at every school. Was trying to point out the idiocy of such arguments (more good guys with guns, etc.).

It's not a workable solution. It is an indisputable fact more guns means more gun accidents, more suicides, and more gun violence. Gun violence already costs America nearly $300 billion a year.

The Rashomon effect mentioned above is defined in a modern context as "the naming of an epistemological framework—or ways of thinking, knowing, and remembering—for understanding complex and ambiguous situations".

A good guy with a gun is a motivated reasoning mental framework. It leads to the logical fallacy if a good a guy with a gun didn't stop the shooter then that can only mean no good guys with a gun were present. It's why a parent stopping the shooter "rings true" even though that's not what happened.

Right, and I still don't think it can be said too many times that more guns=more gun violence. Regardless of how desperately some want to muddy those waters.

[Diamond Joe]

Depends on the state and town. I know for plenty of towns here, it's average of the last 3 years of service, so they work the system to do lots of traffic gigs.
As far as I've seen they're pretty well compensated.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mas...outputType=amp
https://patch.com/connecticut/stamfo...city-employees

Yes it is the average of the HIGHEST 3 consecutive years (not necessarily the last) but that does not count overtime pay. Its highest 3 consecutive BASE salary plus any education (Quinn Bill, etc)

Not sure why you linked two articles talking about cops being the highest paid town employees, of course thats true, many motivated cops basically work a full-time second job working details at like ~$100/hour. However, none of that counts towards retirement, as was your contention.

General Retirement Factors
Generally, retirement benefits are based on four factors:

Your age
Your years and months of creditable service
For members entering service before April 2, 2012, please enter the average of your highest thirty-six consecutive months of annual regular compensation (base salary).
For members entering service on or after April 2, 2012, please enter the average of your highest sixty consecutive months of annual regular compensation (base salary).
Your group classification
(from https://www.mass.gov/service-details...-benefits-msrb)