If only there was something we could do...

[::: :::]

No need for the insult -- pretty strong statement on its own:

It's problematic when people [insult removed] believe their guns exist to fight against other Americans in a war.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Leroy, do you think that multiverse and I are the same poster? You’re a lunatic


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Meadow Skipper]

Leroy’s kind of wrapped around the axle right now. He’s pretty much stopped making sense with those long, tense, disconnected, nonsensical replies. Just the sort of person you want to own firearms.


Meanwhile in the real world, a person with a history of mental issues had a gun and shot 9 people at a splash park in Michigan. Seems to me like maybe there are too many guns available. If only there was something we could do.
9 Shot at Splash Park in Michigan

[leroy jenkins]

Civil War is violent and extreme, Leroy. That's why Leroy's quote in context, "If its half the population and a signifigant portion of the military, well then, they're probably on the right side of history anyways, and I do view that as part of our system of checks and balecnes," is ironic.

Because half the country and a significant portion of the military did wage war on the federal government. They were definitely on the wrong side of history. And no, it was not part of our "system of checks and balecnes." It was treason. It's problematic when people with no more self-awareness than a ceramic floor believe their guns exist to fight against other Americans in a war.

no, half the country did not wage war against the federal government. There was not that level of support. It was never even close to half the population. Besides, they weren't just fighting against the government, they were fighting against the rest of the population.

That is a very very different situation that a country fighting their government. The french revolution certainly took a dark turn, but its impetus was hardly controversial. People were starving while the ultra rich were living in luxury.

There are people fighting a very fucked up and immoral government in Myanmar right now. Should they just accept the authoritai? Are you really asserting that one ever has the right to ever resist their government? No matter what? Nazi Germany included? What exactly are you arguing? You don't know. You're not arguing shit you're just making up strawmen.


We've basically got you being outraged and butthurt, over something that isn't very radical at all, and trying to strawman it into something that sounds a lot more out there than it is.

You guys are the radical extremists here. I'm the moderate. Yes, our civil war was treasonous and stupid. You haven't proved shit by saying that. I'm not some confederate sympathizer. You're not striking a nerve by saying that. But the civil war didn't just start in the south, John Brown had a significant hand in it. It started with violence from civilian to civilian. And while John Brown seemed to have some noble justifications, I think he was a murderous psychopath. So yea, completely different situation, nothing at all like myanmar.

[ex-powderbroker]

No way to prevent this says only Nation where this regularly happens.

[MultiVerse]

Leroy, do you think that multiverse and I are the same poster? You’re a lunatic

He also seems to think the United States is somehow analogous to Myanmar and Nazi Germany. We should all be pretty excited about what comes next after that part.

[leroy jenkins]

He also seems to think the United States is somehow analogous to Myanmar and Nazi Germany. We should all be pretty excited about what comes next after that part.

No the united states is a system of checks and balances of which gun ownership is one. Its a wonderful country and I love it with gratitude.

And this makes me a lunatic. Oh no, I'm completely incapable fo realizing all you are different people, I can't even conceptualize it. I'm Completly insane because I made a simple mistake! Not that like, you're similar enough I just don't care. You're the two stupidest posters on here. Followed only by highangle.



You guys are rich.

[MultiVerse]

Are the 'checks and balances' in the room with us right now, Leroy?

Back to reality, armed insurgency is not a legitimate option in the minds of the public in the United States apart from true nutcase conspiracy theorists.

[leroy jenkins]

Are the 'checks and balances' in the room with us right now, Leroy?

lol. Its the foundation of our government and the Pax Americana.

But I do understand you don't care about any of that.

[leroy jenkins]

Leroy’s kind of wrapped around the axle right now. He’s pretty much stopped making sense with those long, tense, disconnected, nonsensical replies. Just the sort of person you want to own firearms.
]

You're admitting I've previously made sense? aww thats so sweet of you.

[Ted Striker]

[leroy jenkins]

I feel the same way. I'm glad we're both getting something out of this. Aww, this is kind of a nice moment isn't it?

[leroy jenkins]

No need for the insult -- pretty strong statement on its own:

Yea, its a strawman, strawmen are 'strong statements' built on foundations of sand.


Cus no one said what he's saying I said. Thats an absurd little twisting of words which is all he ever does. No one said they have guns to fight other americans in a war. Again, its inserting this level of specificity and fantasy about it which is highly disingenuous and manipulative.

The fact is I just disagree with you guys, i think firearms ownership is a human right, and that is has a place in a much broader scheme of checks and balances, and its obvious that completely disarmed populations are the ones who get victimized en masse in history. In the largest numbers.


Do you guys not think the Uighers have a right to defend themselves? Or to posses deterrents against the CCP genocide rape torture etc?

You guys keep painting it as something radical that people have a right to self defense. Its a fairly moderate view. Its a classic liberal view really, its what the liberal world order has been built on, that people have the right to self determination. I don't really get what your platform is, or are, other than just pro authority in general?

You took out the harmless slightly entertaining insult, and left the actual legit attempt at gaslighting and manipulation.

[MultiVerse]

Leroy keeps using the word strawman in strange ways. When he describes a system of 'checks and balecnes' does he imagine making models out of straw men - and putting little notes in their pockets - and then inviting the neighborhood kids to set fire to them and beat them with sticks?

Or is he talking about half the population going to war against the other half, one group of Americans killing another group of Americans? If it's the latter he couldn't be more wrong. The American Constitution is filled with passages treating ‘insurrection’ and ‘rebellion’ and 'treason' not as individual rights but as heinous crimes against our government and the people.

In reality, the actual Unites States Constitution rejects paranoid fantasies about armed bands of disgruntled lunatics claiming the imaginary power of constitutional ‘Militia’ to engage in violent acts against the American people.

[::: :::]

You took out the harmless slightly entertaining insult, and left the actual legit attempt at gaslighting and manipulation.

No, there have been plenty of instances of gun-enthusiasts threatening violence over political difference. [“from my cold dead hands” is just the tip of that iceberg; “i’m just here in this other town protecting private property to which i have no affiliation;” “I’m just here armed with a long gun at this polling station protecting the vote even though no one asked me to;” “I’m just a regular rancher who insists on grazing public lands without paying the public for the privilege and now I’m taking over a nature preserve office.” Etc]

And there have been plenty of instances of gun-enthusiasts talking about civil war and prepping for it. [preppers, private militia trainees, J6ers, Mich gov kidnap idiots, etc]
I wish it were made up, but, no, no gaslighting necessary.

People do have a right to defend themselves. Yes, a natural right.
But, no, they do not have a right to use immediately lethal force in every/any type of self defense situation at their own discretion. That is definitely not a right. That is meting out private justice (judge/jury/executioner), not self-defense.

[leroy jenkins]

No, there have been plenty of instances of gun-enthusiasts threatening violence over political difference. [“from my cold dead hands” is just the tip of that iceberg; “i’m just here in this other town protecting private property to which i have no affiliation;” “I’m just here armed with a long gun at this polling station protecting the vote even though no one asked me to;” “I’m just a regular rancher who insists on grazing public lands without paying the public for the privilege and now I’m taking over a nature preserve office.” Etc]

And there have been plenty of instances of gun-enthusiasts talking about civil war and prepping for it. [preppers, private militia trainees, J6ers, Mich gov kidnap idiots, etc]
I wish it were made up, but, no, no gaslighting necessary.

People do have a right to defend themselves. Yes, a natural right.
But, no, they do not have a right to use immediately lethal force in every/any type of self defense situation at their own discretion. That is definitely not a right. That is meting out private justice (judge/jury/executioner), not self-defense.

No one said the right to use lethal force in any type of self defense situation.


Again, none of this is what I actually said, its you taking it and extrapolating it to statements I haven't made.

And you justification for doing so? You feelings. When you think about gun owners, you get scared, cus some guns owners have done some things, you've scared all gun owners might do those things.

Thats it.


Heres one life saved by a gun. No lethal force necessary. And no, the use of lethal force in self defense isn't vigilante justice. There are important distinctions between the two things. But I get you don't exist in reality and need to distort EVERYTHING to an absurdity.

So it seems you guys don't believe in the basic right to self defense. Gotcha. That is a crazy ultra radical view. I'm the moderate here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK8PSht4pL0

[leroy jenkins]

Leroy keeps using the word strawman in strange ways. When he describes a system of 'checks and balecnes' does he imagine making models out of straw men - and putting little notes in their pockets - and then inviting the neighborhood kids to set fire to them and beat them with sticks?

Or is he talking about half the population going to war against the other half, one group of Americans killing another group of Americans? If it's the latter he couldn't be more wrong. The American Constitution is filled with passages treating ‘insurrection’ and ‘rebellion’ and 'treason' not as individual rights but as heinous crimes against our government and the people.

In reality, the actual Unites States Constitution rejects paranoid fantasies about armed bands of disgruntled lunatics claiming the imaginary power of constitutional ‘Militia’ to engage in violent acts against the American people.

lol I have a clarified several times that is not what I'm talking about, and your attempt to distort my words into things I have clearly stated that I am not saying, is you making a strawman. Thats what a strawman is.


Keep it up guys. I might type fast and make some typos, but any moderates who wander in here will see how fucking nuts you guys are, so keep going.

[subtle plague]

Leroy, do you think that multiverse and I are the same poster? You’re a lunatic


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Multiverse and Jong are brothers, but jong ran a away with multiverses wife to make 400k in bitcoin on cousin byates behalf.

They have a complicated family history. And weapons. Let's put it this way....... Thanksgivings tend to be tense.

[MultiVerse]

subtle plague once again demonstrates German humor is no laughing matter

[From_the_NEK]

Jon Stuart breaks down a big reason why Republicans don't want any gun control. It is a pretty long video but it all comes together in the last 3 minutes.

[::: :::]

No one said the right to use lethal force in any type of self defense situation.

It isn’t necessary to state it that way except to demonstrate the problem gun access creates. It isn’t an exaggeration or disingenuous to state in that manner because that is exactly the license granted when firearms are promoted as personal self defense and policies are instituted like stand your ground . There are no do-overs when using lethal force. Someone holding a gun can do whatever the fuck they want with it. Misuse it. Use it intentionally. Let others use it. Let others misuse it intentionally or unintentionally. The horse is out of the barn at that point.

Again, none of this is what I actually said, it’s you taking it and extrapolating it to statements I haven't made.

No, it’s the logical and natural consequences for poor choices (in this case the poor policy choices that you promote here). They play out across the country and especially in places with more guns.

And you justification for doing so? You feelings. When you think about gun owners, you get scared, cus some guns owners have done some things, you've scared all gun owners might do those things.

Thats it.

Yes, exactly. I don’t trust people with guns. You know why? … cuz “guns don’t kill people; people kill people.”
They’ve shown it over and over. So far we don’t get to pick who has guns, and people like you continue to advocate for any person to have access. Irresponsible people, stupid people, insane people, assholes, drug users, self-styled policeman with political chip on his shoulder who listens to am radio screaming that his rights are being taken away, that guy who won’t let you zipper merge, the shithead who wants to police space he doesn’t own. Etc.

Heres one life saved by a gun. No lethal force necessary. And no, the use of lethal force in self defense isn't vigilante justice. There are important distinctions between the two things. But I get you don't exist in reality and need to distort EVERYTHING to an absurdity.

There are few (& effectively zero) checks/balances for how guns are used once in hand.

So it seems you guys don't believe in the basic right to self defense. Gotcha. That is a crazy ultra radical view.

There’s the circular logic that we’ve come to enjoy from you Leroy. You posit your own reality in the face of clear statements saying the opposite — keep it up, but understand we all see it and you are only fooling yourself. Give yourself a pat on the back.

I'm the moderate here.

You’ve not demonstrated any moderation on gun policy.
So, stop lying, or “gaslighting”…that’s the topic we were on, wasn’t it?
You were pretending you never did such things, and that only the radicals gaslight others…
Look at you…you self-owned once again

[ex-powderbroker]

Hi, 911? I’d like to report a murder.

[Ted Striker]

"If only there was a good guy with a gun..."

376 "good"* guys** with guns at Uvalde did nothing for one hour and seventeen minutes.


*sociopathic
**cowards

[leroy jenkins]

It isn’t necessary to state it that way except to demonstrate the problem gun access creates. It isn’t an exaggeration or disingenuous to state in that manner because that is exactly the license granted when firearms are promoted as personal self defense and policies are instituted like stand your ground . There are no do-overs when using lethal force. Someone holding a gun can do whatever the fuck they want with it. Misuse it. Use it intentionally. Let others use it. Let others misuse it intentionally or unintentionally. The horse is out of the barn at that point.


No, it’s the logical and natural consequences for poor choices (in this case the poor policy choices that you promote here). They play out across the country and especially in places with more guns.


Yes, exactly. I don’t trust people with guns. You know why? … cuz “guns don’t kill people; people kill people.”
They’ve shown it over and over. So far we don’t get to pick who has guns, and people like you continue to advocate for any person to have access. Irresponsible people, stupid people, insane people, assholes, drug users, self-styled policeman with political chip on his shoulder who listens to am radio screaming that his rights are being taken away, that guy who won’t let you zipper merge, the shithead who wants to police space he doesn’t own. Etc.


There are few (& effectively zero) checks/balances for how guns are used once in hand.


There’s the circular logic that we’ve come to enjoy from you Leroy. You posit your own reality in the face of clear statements saying the opposite — keep it up, but understand we all see it and you are only fooling yourself. Give yourself a pat on the back.


You’ve not demonstrated any moderation on gun policy.
So, stop lying, or “gaslighting”…that’s the topic we were on, wasn’t it?
You were pretending you never did such things, and that only the radicals gaslight others…
Look at you…you self-owned once again

If high gun ownership always causes negative outcomes, how come most of the countries with highest gun ownership have low violent crime? Two out of the top ten are active war zones, the rest are low crime and violent crime, with the only exception being Uruguay, which is still lower crime and violent crime than its neighbors, and is also only a high crime rate in urban areas, much like the US, being fairly low outside that. The rest are some of the lowest crime countries on earth.


You're allowed to disagree, but its crazy that you need things to be so black and white, like a gun has never saved a life.


Ther truth is you just don't trust you fellows, and have a narcissistic desire to control others, because you have a hard time coping with the chaotric nature of existence. But you'll never get enough gun laws to cope, or to make the world safe.

Ther largest death tolls in history happen when unarmed populations are victimized by governments. Theirs or another. You choose to ignore this.


I am a moderate on this issue. i have always been a moderate on this issue. You guys, and people like you, although there really aren't many, have gotten increasingly radicalized and extremist.


And also, your first paragraph is pretty much gibberish, but in as much as I can make sense of it, its wrong. We already have laws governing the use of weapons and limitations on self defense. Just having a gun isn't a 'license' to use it however you like, despite you absurd claim that it is. Thats just not remotely true. Try existing in reality? It might just be LESS scary.

[leroy jenkins]

"If only there was a good guy with a gun..."

376 "good"* guys** with guns at Uvalde did nothing for one hour and seventeen minutes.


*sociopathic
**cowards

Yea, cops can't be relied upon to protect anyone. The only person who tried to go inside was a parent of a child inside and was stopped by their fellow officers.

So how do you suggest we protect ourselves, if the cops can't do it? Make the whole world safe? Impossible.