If only there was something we could do...

[byates1]

Coworker here in bozone told me a story of him being blackout drunk pounding on what he thought was his door. Old dude behind the door opens fire bullet literally grazes his skull.

He doesn't drink anymore..

[summit]

A coworker just dismissed my concerns about sending my kid to school in a few years due to school shootings. A very flippant “yea, and that can happen at Walmart too”

Hey bud, that shit sucks too! Shouldn’t be a normal and easy thing to do!

But it is too normal and an easy thing to carry out because of all firearms owners and their supporters indifference to anyone that isn’t themselves.

I think that is flippant attitude from their coworker if the attitude was as described. It doesn't make it factually wrong and is probably just their way of mentally parsing the issue so as to go about their life. But really they could use some self awareness before they reflect that attitude outward in a callous way at your concerns.

I think as people have real concerns and anxiety about this, that is worth consideration of specific mindset as it affects our daily mindset as a separate discussion vs problems in terms of our desired policy solutions.

So a better thing to say is any of these random acts of violence is horrific. It is perfectly reasonable to feel that way. It is natural to then fear it, but thinking about risk for a moment, there are about 14K non-gang/drug firearm homicides in the US per year. That is a 0.004% chance of being killed with a gun without any further risk stratification than not being involved with gangs and drugs, an this is all murder, not the small percentage that is a random act of violence as in a mass shooting. You are 3x more likely to die in a vehicle accident than a firearm murder, but do you give the same amount of apprehension to getting in a car?

There is something visceral about someone meaning to do harm versus the more accidental nature of a car wreck, but managing our understanding of risk can affect our mindset and anxiety completely separate of politics and policy.

I think that's just important to touch on because some people do live with anxiety that is quite outsized vs the actual risk and it is deleterious to their mental health.

[Meadow Skipper]

Blasting unarmed young’uns for no particular reason - so hot right now.
Man Charged With Murder in Shooting of Woman Who Went Up Wrong Driveway

Exercising his inalienable/god-given right.

[mcphee]

I think that is flippant attitude from their coworker if the attitude was as described. It doesn't make it factually wrong and is probably just their way of mentally parsing the issue so as to go about their life. But really they could use some self awareness before they reflect that attitude outward in a callous way at your concerns.

I think as people have real concerns and anxiety about this, that is worth consideration of specific mindset as it affects our daily mindset as a separate discussion vs problems in terms of our desired policy solutions.

So a better thing to say is any of these random acts of violence is horrific. It is perfectly reasonable to feel that way. It is natural to then fear it, but thinking about risk for a moment, there are about 14K non-gang/drug firearm homicides in the US per year. That is a 0.004% chance of being killed with a gun without any further risk stratification than not being involved with gangs and drugs, an this is all murder, not the small percentage that is a random act of violence as in a mass shooting. You are 3x more likely to die in a vehicle accident than a firearm murder, but do you give the same amount of apprehension to getting in a car?

There is something visceral about someone meaning to do harm versus the more accidental nature of a car wreck, but managing our understanding of risk can affect our mindset and anxiety completely separate of politics and policy.

I think that's just important to touch on because some people do live with anxiety that is quite outsized vs the actual risk and it is deleterious to their mental health.

Your earnest response to my concerns sucks too!

The false equivalencies with cars or whatever else and “it’s statistically insignificant” arguments you people roll out are fucking nauseating.

[summit]

^Sorry. I am glad you understood it to be earnest.

Sorry, but that should be completely safe for work. Part of the problem is that people think somethjng like that shouldn’t be ever shown. There’s always a risk if desensitization but Americans don’t even know what getting dead looks like anymore so make em look

Yea? As someone intimately familiar with what getting dead looks like, to hell with that attitude. Even those of use who deal directly with it don't want it shoved in our face without warning. "Oh it is justified when I want it to be" is your response? We have a community standard here. Link it if you want.

[mcphee]

^Sorry. I am glad you understood it to be earnest.

That type of response is nauseating, all too prevalent with the general public, and a major hurdle to doing anything about the firearms problem we have in this country.

[mcski]

^Sorry. I am glad you understood it to be earnest.



Yea? As someone intimately familiar with what getting dead looks like, to hell with that attitude. Even those of use who deal directly with it don't want it shoved in our face without warning. "Oh it is justified when I want it to be" is your response? We have a community standard here. Link it if you want.

It wasn’t my post, but I sure as fuck would not call it not safe for work. Makes you uncomfortable? Good. Obviously, You’re not the target audience, but getting it in peoples faces is kind of required at this point. I think they should show all the kids from sandy hook too while they are at it. Sure can’t do any more harm than what happened those kids.

I don’t want this thread to go polyass but fuck off calling that pic NSFW.

[summit]

^I know it wasn't your post. If you also have memories of doing CPR on a dead child with a gunshot wound, then I'll listen to your opinion about how those pictures should just appear everywhere.

I also don't think we should randomly insert grotesque injuries and dead people from avalanches in skiing threads to raise awareness about that important issue. I also have experience there.

I'm done with this intermittent foray into this thread. I really just came to post on the KCMO tragedy. I'm sure I'll poke my nose back in again someday.

[oldnew_guy]

^Sorry. I am glad you understood it to be earnest.



Yea? As someone intimately familiar with what getting dead looks like, to hell with that attitude. Even those of use who deal directly with it don't want it shoved in our face without warning. "Oh it is justified when I want it to be" is your response? We have a community standard here. Link it if you want.

Sorry, I get your point, but I'm chuckling at you asking for a trigger warning.

[mcphee]

^I know it wasn't your post. If you also have memories of doing CPR on a dead child with a gunshot wound, then I'll listen to your opinion about how those pictures should just appear everywhere.

I also don't think we should randomly insert grotesque injuries and dead people from avalanches in skiing threads to raise awareness about that important issue. I also have experience there.

I'm done with this intermittent foray into this thread. I really just came to post on the KCMO tragedy. I'm sure I'll poke my nose back in again someday.

^kbyeeeeee

[The AD]

It says it right there in the Constitution, man. "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

Yeah, seems like many put a whole lot more weight on that parts versus the "well regulated militia " part.

[MakersTeleMark]

That type of response is nauseating, all too prevalent with the general public, and a major hurdle to doing anything about the firearms problem we have in this country.

Homeschool your kid and STFU.

[mcphee]

^another cunt he heard from

[leroy jenkins]

Would seem to infringe on others inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as laid out in the declaration of independence.

That is why it is illegal to do so.

[Cisco Kid]

Pic of Wooley and Leroy

[leroy jenkins]

Project much?
I'd feel sad for how scared and childish you are on this (some excellent/r/iamverysmart arguments here), but nah, you've had plenty of chance and exposure to develop empathy for others and you chose not to of your own free will.
No one will come for you and no one will weep for you, this is the sad truth that is being repeated again and again. You aren't holding any line but one which separates you from having real humanity.

I have tons of empathy. The empathy for people in this thread seems highly selective. My empathy for millions is bigger than my empathy for hundreds. This makes perfect sense. I don't pick and choose who to have empathy for, but absolutely view millions dead as a bigger problem than smaller numbers.

Unlike most in this thread, I don't have hatred for others that I rationalize as normal and justifiable. I don't wish ill on others. I put myself in the shoes of those who disagree with me and understand why they have the viewpoint I do, something not many of the rest of you seem capable of.

[basinbeater]

@summit
I posted the pic.
The whole point is that it is disturbing. Really disturbing. Most gun owners who shrug off having their gun stolen from their car, need to see what happens. Because right now they don't think the cost is high enough for them to want to reduce the number of guns out there. Something has to change.
I bet the lung surgeon hated seeing pictures of wrecked lungs from smoking. Shit is nasty! Helped drive down smoking rates.
I applaud your service in tending to people wounded and killed by guns. I would like for you to not have to deal with it as much.

[leroy jenkins]

Please support the two statements above with links to creditable sources. Thanks.


You say these things, and you may even believe your own statements, but above you assert that combat deaths are being included in civilian death counts which seems suspect at best. I'm prepared to believe you if you can demonstrate the claim.

Show me your stats showing the leading cause of death of children is guns, and I'll debunk the way they collected the stats.

Someone else made a claim without a source or evidence, yet its on me to provide a source to disprove it? Show me your stats and that they DIDIN'T include 18 and 19 year olds. All the people who claim children's number one cause of death is guns include those. Find me an example to the contrary and I'll admit I'm wrong. You can't. I'm not the one who made the initial claim.

You're fine with bad stats as long as they're your bad stats.

EDIT: Ya know what, I'll accept double standards for providing sources. here ya go. Snopes says this is only true if 18 and 19 year olds are included and infants under one year old are excluded https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/03/...s-children-us/

Even if you DO skew the data in these ways, it wasn't true for 2022 or so far for 2023. Just 2021 and 2022. Without skewing the data in these ways it was nowhere near true in those years either.

Why does misrepresenting things serve you if you're so right about this issue? Why do you need to? Do you just like the dopamine rush you get from your outrage? Can you answer in good faith and honestly?

Overall, violence has been plummeting in the US since the 90s. I already posted a source for this. But your'e addicted to the fear that is sold to you to take all your rights.

[leroy jenkins]

@summit
I posted the pic.
The whole point is that it is disturbing. Really disturbing. Most gun owners who shrug off having their gun stolen from their car, need to see what happens. Because right now they don't think the cost is high enough for them to want to reduce the number of guns out there. Something has to change.
I bet the lung surgeon hated seeing pictures of wrecked lungs from smoking. Shit is nasty! Helped drive down smoking rates.
I applaud your service in tending to people wounded and killed by guns. I would like for you to not have to deal with it as much.

No one shrugs off having their gun stolen from their car.

[basinbeater]

No one shrugs off having their gun stolen from their car.

You're right! The poor gun owners. I mean, they are responsible gun owners, most of the time right? They feel bad. They struggle mightily with an internal debate on whether they should report it to the authorities. Then they don't report it, because they know they might not get another gun so easily. They feel bad for doing the wrong thing. Then they get over it and go get another one.
Meanwhile their stolen gun is out there being used for it's designed purpose, while the responsible gun owner is afraid in their house of the bad guys with guns. Tragic. (It actually is tragic, just not immediately to the "responsible" gun owner who can't see past their own nose)

Stolen guns lead to maimed and killed human being.

Graphic material below...

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[mcski]

Show me your stats showing the leading cause of death of children is guns, and I'll debunk the way they collected the stats.

Someone else made a claim without a source or evidence, yet its on me to provide a source to disprove it? Show me your stats and that they DIDIN'T include 18 and 19 year olds. All the people who claim children's number one cause of death is guns include those. Find me an example to the contrary and I'll admit I'm wrong. You can't. I'm not the one who made the initial claim.

You're fine with bad stats as long as they're your bad stats.

EDIT: Ya know what, I'll accept double standards for providing sources. here ya go. Snopes says this is only true if 18 and 19 year olds are included and infants under one year old are excluded https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/03/...s-children-us/

Even if you DO skew the data in these ways, it wasn't true for 2022 or so far for 2023. Just 2021 and 2022. Without skewing the data in these ways it was nowhere near true in those years either.

Why does misrepresenting things serve you if you're so right about this issue? Why do you need to? Do you just like the dopamine rush you get from your outrage? Can you answer in good faith?.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...leading-cause/

[leroy jenkins]

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...leading-cause/

Your link includes 18 and 19 year olds and excludes under 1 year olds. So, I'm right? Whats your point?

[ex-powderbroker]

1 - 19: bad
0 - 18: good

i feel stupid now!

https://www.theviolenceproject.org/d...ings-per-year/

can’t wait for the baby to endure some lockdown drills to protect elroy’s rights!


… no way to prevent this …

[::: :::]

As of this writing, there is no data available for 2022 and 2023.

Show me your stats showing the leading cause of death of children is guns, and I'll debunk the way they collected the stats.

Someone else made a claim without a source or evidence, yet its on me to provide a source to disprove it? Show me your stats and that they DIDIN'T include 18 and 19 year olds. All the people who claim children's number one cause of death is guns include those. Find me an example to the contrary and I'll admit I'm wrong. You can't. I'm not the one who made the initial claim.

You're fine with bad stats as long as they're your bad stats.

EDIT: Ya know what, I'll accept double standards for providing sources. here ya go. Snopes says this is only true if 18 and 19 year olds are included and infants under one year old are excluded https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/03/...s-children-us/

Even if you DO skew the data in these ways, it wasn't true for 2022 or so far for 2023. Just 2021 and 2022. Without skewing the data in these ways it was nowhere near true in those years either.

Why does misrepresenting things serve you if you're so right about this issue? Why do you need to? Do you just like the dopamine rush you get from your outrage? Can you answer in good faith and honestly?

Overall, violence has been plummeting in the US since the 90s. I already posted a source for this. But your'e addicted to the fear that is sold to you to take all your rights.

You don't read well, or you are misrepresenting that link.

The Snopes link:
So the CDC's 2020 data supports the claim that firearms were the leading cause of death among children that year, provided infants under the age of 1 are excluded, per the analyses of CDC data from Kaiser and Johns Hopkins researchers.
Parsing infant data doesn't change the stat, it just adds to it.
Also the Snopes link:
For 2021, the data yielded the same results. A CNN analysis of CDC data determined that, in 2021, nearly 3,600 children and teens, ages 1-18, died in gun-related incidents, which was more than the number of motor-vehicle fatalities.
Seems pretty clear. And no 19 yo's needed, nor "combat deaths" (which I'll note you still haven't substantiated, but we'll also note the Snopes link uses CDC data, not military data.)

Let's look at 2022 & 2023:
Leroy: "it wasn't true for 2022 or so far for 2023. Just 2021 and 2022."
Snopes: As of this writing, there is no data available for 2022 and 2023. [Published 3/29/2023. Updated 4/3/2023]

Who is misrepresenting here?


Yes, generally, violent crime stats have trended down since 1990 per this stat below. And they are lower today than 2000. But they also slowed and turned direction around 2014. The last 8 yrs have been rising slightly. I guess we'll see if that's a plateau or a more significant rising trend. Please note the steepest part of the curve (what you call "plummeting") was during the 10yr assault weapons ban.

[skaredshtles]

Quit trying to reason with the disingenuous fuck-nut and put him on your Ignore list.