If only there was something we could do...

[sirbumpsalot]

Well, making the age to purchase 21 instead of 18 would have at least make it less convenient for both Buffalo and Texas shooters. That's a state level decision.

Thats cherry picking monday morning quarterback style.

I would agree that perhaps more maturity is beneficial...but you can't put a number on that. For example...some 8 yr olds can have the mental capacity or moral fortitude to handle a gun properly while a 56 yr old can got postal. It does seems strange that an 18yr old can have a gun, but can't drink! A 13 yr old can have an abortion, but can't buy cigarettes? Random stabs at trying to satisfy political movements.

[anotherVTskibum]

Class 3/NFA is a great idea. Plus it makes a person wait for months for their firearm. And the waiting period alone would go a long way to stopping some of the insanity. That said there’s not a single Republican politician in the country who would even agree to bring that suggestion up for debate. Even if the democrats had a super majority, every Republican politician would leave the country in order to deny a quorum. While it’s a great idea it’ll never happen. And if Bobby went to the shooting range and suggested that to his shooting friends he might not ever return. They’d view that as the worst repression ever experienced.

As someone who likes to shoot and sees the AR platform as a pretty good target-and-hunting rifle (with an appropriately small magazine for the latter), I could absolutely support making all semi auto rifles with detachable magazines or clips Class 3. However, I don't believe it would hold up under current constitutional law. Attempting to change that law is technically possible but not in the current political environment, and if there was any major move towards revising the second amendment, it would probably fracture the country even worse.

If revising the second amendment were possible, the rational solution would be to do so and implement an Australian-style buyback program along with strict regulations on anything semi auto (not just "assault weapons").

Waiting periods for additional gun purchases are seriously problematic in the "crap, I broke my gun during deer/duck/whatever" season, especially if you're planning a big trip because that's your thing. Think about how you'd feel if you had a big ski trip planned, broke your skis, and had to wait 5 days (let alone 10 or 14) to replace them. For that reason, I think that subsequent purchases of the same class of weapon shouldn't be subject to the same waiting provisions that an initial purchase may reasonably be.

Just my two cents. Unfortunately, we're nowhere near being willing to accept a rational response.

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[dunfree]

Shit can get fixed, that’s why it’s a platform right?

and it’s the current interpretation of law

[hikesalot]

Honestly I think that increasing the age limit for purchasing guns and ammo is a good one. Or maybe it’s more gun education up to a certain age. I’m no expert but often read that the adolescent brain isn’t fully developed until age 24 or 25. It seems a lot of these shootings are done by males in that age group. (under 25ish). I know they’re adults at 18, so that’s a challenging idea to have catch on.

[altacoup]

NFA/class 3 discussion was pertaining to ar15 ak style guns. Not hunting rifles. I personally possess both types of fire arms and NFA/class 3. I have a shotgun from 1929, shoots great. Guns don’t break very easily. I’d have zero problem waiting a month for a hunting rifle. Absolutely nobody needs to be able to walk out of a store with a gun less than 30 minutes. Last time I bought a fire arm in Utah it took about 15 minutes.

[Cono Este]

They’re not killing eachother in mass in downtown St Louis with Daniel Defense AR’s.

What’s everyone’s plan for that?


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[seano732]

This dude seems high strung, but absolute grade A rant:

[skiJ]

what fantastic values to teach children, is it worth trying!?

what fantastic values did we teach nineteen ten year olds who were two weeks from Summer Vacation ?

' is it worth trying!? '
would it be worth trying if if was your ten year old ?


There is a short post now far up-thread that says simply,
'This is the cost for living in a gun culture. Nothing will change. nothing new. '

This morning I was upset; tonight I am resigned.
Hate is a plague - bigotry. racism.

I don't believe it was a 'war on terror' -
terror was what they were selling and the media was complicit.


I have spent the last thirty years trying to teach kids Good values - that we do the right thing., Good works., and that we take care of each other.

is it worth trying!?
That part of my Judgement day, I can face -
' ... my failures,
I have not forgotten them. ... ' ( J.Browne )


good luck. good night... tj

[anotherVTskibum]

Shit can get fixed, that’s why it’s a platform right?

and it’s the current interpretation of law

I would've thought, but a guy I know from motorcycling--who, for what it's worth, is decidedly not a GOP member had an issue with his primary duck gun (not even an AR) and couldn't get the parts he needed until after his long-planned trip was underway. He happened to have a backup gun, but he made a pretty good case in terms of significant waiting periods presenting very real issues for uses (hunting) that most people don't take issue with.

Another guy I know went to do a final sight in the day before leaving for deer camp and realized the powered scope on his AR wasn't working (which he had been planning to use as his deer rifle, with an appropriate magazine). Again, he happened to have another rifle that was good to go, but if he hadn't and couldn't get the AR scope going, being able to walk into an outdoors store in just-West-of-nowhere and walk out with a functional rifle would've saved the trip.

Now, if you want to talk about the right-wing resistance to using modern tech to improve background checks, that's another angle that could easily help differentiate between someone who has previously been cleared and someone who has not.

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[dunfree]

what fantastic values did we teach nineteen ten year olds who were two weeks from Summer Vacation ?

' is it worth trying!? '
would it be worth trying if if was your ten year old ?


There is a short post now far up-thread that says simply,
'This is the cost for living in a gun culture. Nothing will change. nothing new. '

This morning I was upset; tonight I am resigned.
Hate is a plague - bigotry. racism.

I don't believe it was a 'war on terror' -
terror was what they were selling and the media was complicit.


I have spent the last thirty years trying to teach kids Good values - that we do the right thing., Good works., and that we take care of each other.

is it worth trying!?
That part of my Judgement day, I can face -
' ... my failures,
I have not forgotten them. ... ' ( J.Browne )


good luck. good night... tj

Police did such a great job this time, let’s give them more money to fix their fuck up is a way of life in the us, yes

Police never pay the cost of their fuckups, everyone else does. But then these super citizens don’t even have a duty to protect

[::: :::]

Thats cherry picking monday morning quarterback style.

I would agree that perhaps more maturity is beneficial...but you can't put a number on that. For example...some 8 yr olds can have the mental capacity or moral fortitude to handle a gun properly while a 56 yr old can got postal. It does seems strange that an 18yr old can have a gun, but can't drink! A 13 yr old can have an abortion, but can't buy cigarettes? Random stabs at trying to satisfy political movements.

Driving insurance folks can sure put a number to age of maturity: 25

[altacoup]

^^^^
That’s exactly how I felt last night and this morning. The GQP has zero desire to govern. They’ve said it out loud time and after time. When someone tells you who they are believe it. They only care about power and tax cuts for the rich, they pick off single issue voters with guns, abortion, racism, etc. and they’re fucking fascist who want to destroy democracy in the USA.


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[::: :::]

[mcphee]

When people elect politicians to run government that don’t actually believe in government you get a shitty government

Republican voters have conditioned the GQP. The Democratic Party has conditioned its voters that nothing can be done about anything.

[dcpnz]

Probably paywalled but I encourage those with access, wherever you stand on this issue, to read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/o...e=articleShare

[oldnew_guy]

Probably paywalled but I encourage those with access, wherever you stand on this issue, to read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/o...e=articleShare

Way back machine version:

https://web.archive.org/web/20220526...e=articleShare

[CarlMega]

Like WTF is going on in the USA that we have them weekly, and other countries with firearms do not.

I don't disagree but is there any other nation with the amount of personal gun ownership the USA does? Any first world nation with (ease) access to a weaponry and ammunition?

I think we are an outlier but happy to be corrected.

[Harry]

Federal law says any gun purchased at a licensed dealer must undergo a background check....which is where the TX School shooter purchased his gun so most likely he was checked per defined law. I think 70% of gun purchases are thru a dealer.

Instead of throwing around vague "universal background checks" terms, I'd define the checks you and this "majority" wants.

I went to a gun show in Missoula a few years back. At the university fieldhouse,, so lots of people, lots of tables. Capitalism in action, lots of sellers so prices were reasonable. Except one seller. He had 3 tables and a huge sign “No Background Check”. His prices were double to triple what the other sellers were charging. And his customers really stood out. Neck tattoos, teardrop tattoos, very rough looking crowd, and there was a line to get up to him.

He did not have a FFL, so no background check needed. And these criminals knew it and were very willing to pay significantly extra for it. Why the Republican Party supports this is beyond me.


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[dunfree]

I don't disagree but is there any other nation with the amount of personal gun ownership the USA does? Any first world nation with (ease) access to a weaponry and ammunition?

I think we are an outlier but happy to be corrected.

the closest are the Falklands and Yemen (so, a former war zone with a negligible population at the ass end of the world and a war zone). And they are half of the us.

federal gun “background checks” are a joke

[MultiVerse]

It's remarkable how fast the "too many doors" talking point spread. I'm seeing it everywhere. Fewer entrances kinda seems like it might make sense but fewer exits sounds like a uniquely horrible idea.

[Cono Este]

I went to a gun show in Missoula a few years back. At the university fieldhouse,, so lots of people, lots of tables. Capitalism in action, lots of sellers so prices were reasonable. Except one seller. He had 3 tables and a huge sign “No Background Check”. His prices were double to triple what the other sellers were charging. And his customers really stood out. Neck tattoos, teardrop tattoos, very rough looking crowd, and there was a line to get up to him.

He did not have a FFL, so no background check needed. And these criminals knew it and were very willing to pay significantly extra for it. Why the Republican Party supports this is beyond me.


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Honestly, part of the problem is that most liberals don’t know wtf they are talking about. It scares people away from coming to the table when they use language suggesting they don’t know a muzzle from a butt stock.
If I’m going to suggest putting a catalytic converters on a car, then I should spend the time to learn wtf that is. The result is we have a joke book of laws right now that allow so many loopholes.

We need a nationwide ban. Anyone saying 10 rounds is ok in a pistol and not 15, is not taking the higher ground. Most Democratic law makers would not vote for any meaningful change either.

Meanwhile we can give our selves medals for morality.


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[skiJ]

Why the ... Party supports this is two-fold -
Money. And votes.


tj

[MultiVerse]

Honestly, part of the problem is that most liberals don’t know wtf they are talking about. It scares people away from coming to the table when they use language suggesting they don’t know a muzzle from a butt stock.

You can make the sane argument about gun owners. Many if not most gun deaths and gun accidents result from improperly stored, improperly handled guns.

[anotherVTskibum]

Probably paywalled but I encourage those with access, wherever you stand on this issue, to read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/o...e=articleShare

Just to cherry pick one of the worst suggestions: you can't use the no fly list to restrict access to a constitutional right, because there's no due process involved.

I'd also argue against misdemeanor drug and alcohol convictions being disqualifying for much of anything.

Some of the other suggestions--including red-flag laws--make a lot of sense if implemented properly (there has to be a relatively high standard for due process when constitutional rights are involved, and the right to bear arms is, and will be for the foreseeable future, one of those rights).

I struggle with the right answer for plans to assemble guns at home (or the local stash house). Current laws are rightfully harsh for those possessing weapons who are banned from doing so, but enforcement is often reactive at best. The idea of making it illegal to traffic in information on how to build firearms seems to trample a couple of amendments at once, and the concept of where a part ends and a gun begins is currently problematic and damn hard to answer well.

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[hikesalot]

It's remarkable how fast the "too many doors" talking point spread. I'm seeing it everywhere. Fewer entrances kinda seems like it might make sense but fewer exits sounds like a uniquely horrible idea.

exactly. Just spent the last hour with my middle schooler as he wanted to review all possible intruder scenarios at his school and what he’d do. Many of his classes have exit doors nearby and that’s the best way to get out of the school. He slept on my bedroom floor last night. He probably won’t sleep tonight as he overthinks all his scenarios. And worries about his teachers who he thinks aren’t fast enough runners. And then he asked what about the office people? He’s a worrier and it sucks all around.