School me on race skis

[CirqueScaler]

Thanks everyone. Consensus seems to be "cheater"/"beer league" ski, which I had gleaned from the other threads. Seems like the 180-ish and 20-ish radius is what I'm looking for.

Question: What does SL stand for? Slalom?

Can anyone comment on the Line Blade vs. cheater ski question? My sense is that the Line Blade would be fun - no problem with that - and more versatile but that it wouldn't be as precise or as demanding/rewarding on fresh groomers. Is that right? To be clear: I am looking explicitly for a groomer-only ski. I don't want an all-mountain ski that will also ski groomers really well.

What is it that the mx83 is lacking that makes you want to replace them?

Last time out, I didn't feel like the MX 83 had the edge hold or turn shape diversity that I wanted. I felt like I was skidding them a lot on my last time using them and also that it was really hard to make tighter turns. Maybe it's down to tune (I haven't sharpened edges recently), but compared to a Brahma 82 that I demo'd, I found them way less fun and versatile.

[TexasGortex]

I have the Blade and some older 27m (I think) 190ish FIS GS Dynastar skis with plates and the whole thing. The Blade is a hoot but not in the same league as FIS skis. You couldn’t really pick two more opposite skis other than that they can both carve. The blade is fun, poppy, and very easy to ski. The FIS sticks are not. Both will hold an edge well but race skis really turn it to 11.

My GS skis kind of scare me and if I could do it over again, I’d have gone with SL instead. I love my Blades but they are closer to Dad Skis than Race Skis. That being said, they have completely replaced my Dynastars. I have more fun carving off side hits and skiing switch than I do going purely mach looney these days.

[timeo]

"My GS skis kind of scare me"

This sums it up perfectly.

FIS GS skis are fun as hell but I am a little afraid to ski them due to the speeds involved and the consequences of a wreck, end of season most likely. Another reason I only ski them for a day or two a year.

[east or bust]

Blades to any kind of race ski, cheater included, doesn’t really compute.

They would have two very different places in the quiver. I haven’t skied the Blades but would be hard pressed to think the performance is anywhere near, say, a FIS SL ski.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[skinipenem]

Thanks everyone. Consensus seems to be "cheater"/"beer league" ski, which I had gleaned from the other threads. Seems like the 180-ish and 20-ish radius is what I'm looking for.

Question: What does SL stand for? Slalom?

Can anyone comment on the Line Blade vs. cheater ski question? My sense is that the Line Blade would be fun - no problem with that - and more versatile but that it wouldn't be as precise or as demanding/rewarding on fresh groomers. Is that right? To be clear: I am looking explicitly for a groomer-only ski. I don't want an all-mountain ski that will also ski groomers really well.


Last time out, I didn't feel like the MX 83 had the edge hold or turn shape diversity that I wanted. I felt like I was skidding them a lot on my last time using them and also that it was really hard to make tighter turns. Maybe it's down to tune (I haven't sharpened edges recently), but compared to a Brahma 82 that I demo'd, I found them way less fun and versatile.

SL = slalom


Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[XXX-er]

Atomic redster double decks made in Austria maybe 5 yrs old, got em from an alpine canada guy, only 199$ so a lot of locals bought them, buddy now sells RE. The ski sez "FIS norm" on the topsheet and we were told they were cheap cuz the rules had changed, they came pre drilled for salomons but no bindings, it looked like they had screws run in so they had been mounted but not skied or at least very lightly ... a pretty good find

[Hood26]

How about a pair of Dynastar 4x4?

[SoVT Joey]

Thanks everyone. Consensus seems to be "cheater"/"beer league" ski, which I had gleaned from the other threads. Seems like the 180-ish and 20-ish radius is what I'm looking for.

Question: What does SL stand for? Slalom?

Can anyone comment on the Line Blade vs. cheater ski question? My sense is that the Line Blade would be fun - no problem with that - and more versatile but that it wouldn't be as precise or as demanding/rewarding on fresh groomers. Is that right? To be clear: I am looking explicitly for a groomer-only ski. I don't want an all-mountain ski that will also ski groomers really well.


Last time out, I didn't feel like the MX 83 had the edge hold or turn shape diversity that I wanted. I felt like I was skidding them a lot on my last time using them and also that it was really hard to make tighter turns. Maybe it's down to tune (I haven't sharpened edges recently), but compared to a Brahma 82 that I demo'd, I found them way less fun and versatile.

”Turn shape diversity” was all that needed to be said. Like I said down below, you really aren’t looking for a GS ski. They do one thing well and that’s lay out big ass carves, If you want shape diversity out of them, you better know how to stivot, pivot, pressure, and be ready to just over power them, which probably won’t happen unless you have been hammering leg and core day in the gym. The snow is almost never hard enough anywhere except for race trails in the north east to actually get the ski to perform.

cheater and beer league skis are definitely where you want to be if you want to carve, but they are still not playful and still expect decent technique and a fair amount of input.

there are a lot of skis that are more fun and carve just as well as beer league but have much larger versatility when the mountain is packed by 10 or the snow didn’t set up as hard as one had hoped.

skibird has some skis listed. That head ispeed or whatever he has listed would fit the bill.

[CirqueScaler]

All very helpful, thanks a lot everyone. I don't think I ever thought I wanted GS skis. Sorry if saying "race skis" generally means GS skis. I meant the whole class of skis that are used by people to compete over how fast they can get to the bottom (from slalom to GS, incl amateur and pro). Like I said, I don't understand all of the various terminology because I never raced.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Thanks everyone. Consensus seems to be "cheater"/"beer league" ski, which I had gleaned from the other threads. Seems like the 180-ish and 20-ish radius is what I'm looking for.

Question: What does SL stand for? Slalom?

Can anyone comment on the Line Blade vs. cheater ski question? My sense is that the Line Blade would be fun - no problem with that - and more versatile but that it wouldn't be as precise or as demanding/rewarding on fresh groomers. Is that right? To be clear: I am looking explicitly for a groomer-only ski. I don't want an all-mountain ski that will also ski groomers really well.


Last time out, I didn't feel like the MX 83 had the edge hold or turn shape diversity that I wanted. I felt like I was skidding them a lot on my last time using them and also that it was really hard to make tighter turns. Maybe it's down to tune (I haven't sharpened edges recently), but compared to a Brahma 82 that I demo'd, I found them way less fun and versatile.

What’s the radius on the 172 mx83? What generation is it? My first generation 182 Mx83s are all I want if it’s firm out, stiff and damp and I really don’t want to go faster than they allow. They’re 20.5m and if it’s so firm that I need to get them up to speed to carve I don’t care to be on the hill. Anything with texture that’s been groomed is fun and pretty easy to vary turn shape. They’re even fun in crud and powder if it’s not too deep and has a base to push off.

Maybe get the edges sharp and spend more time getting comfortable on them. They’re definitely a ski that you want to stay on top of without being overly demanding like a race ski. The beer league and frontside carver skis are pretty one dimensional ime.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[PB]

There a more recent group of skis referred to as hybrids (SL x GS) of which the WRT-ST (Stockli; rebranded the WRT Pro for next season) is the one I'm familiar with. They're obviously not FIS, given their dimensions, but the generally incorporate race construction/burliness. The ST leans more towards an SL in its radius, but is available in much longer lengths. You won't be able to find the race gear end of season disposals, but if you can get your hands on some, you be smilin'.

[Cocximus]

I have a cheater Rossi with fks 15 in Van. I don't have non tech boots. If someone is interested let me know.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[toast2266]

All very helpful, thanks a lot everyone. I don't think I ever thought I wanted GS skis.

Yes you do.

By all means, get a cheater GS ski or some other ~180 cm, ~20m radius ski. That's definitely the ski you want.

But also go to a ski swap or get on ebay and buy some cheap FIS GS skis. FIS changes the "legal" radius on those skis from time to time, so you can buy older "non-legal" FIS skis for really cheap. Mine are 27m radius Fischers that're maybe 10 years old. They're absolutely fucking terrifying and really really fun when the groomers are empty and legit boilerplate. They're on a whole different level from any other ski I've ever been on (including beer league cheater GS skis). They're completely useless under 50mph, and they will hold a carve across blue ice that you never thought was possible. I say all this as someone who has a similar background as you; self taught, no racing experience, pretty decent skier who occasionally wants to try to drag a hip on firm conditions but doesn't really know what he's doing when it comes to hard snow carving.

[The Tortoise]

Before you buy anything get a good tune on the MX83's. They should have enough grip on firm snow to do whatever you want.

[jackattack]

Before you buy anything get a good tune on the MX83's. They should have enough grip on firm snow to do whatever you want.

Seriously, I set a 3deg side bevel on my mx83 and they were money on the very firm conditions we had most of this season.

[MCskid]

What would be some of the beer league/cheater skis? If 170-173cm GS skis are U14er's would this be a good option for a GS ski that would be more manageable? 155 or 165 for an SL ski?

[SoVT Joey]

What would be some of the beer league/cheater skis? If 170-173cm GS skis are U14er's would this be a good option for a GS ski that would be more manageable? 155 or 165 for an SL ski?

SL ski length will depend on how tall you are. If you are under 5’8” you will be fine on a 155. Over that height you may find yourself looking for more tail when you get jacked up, which will happen. 165s are a blast if you want to turn.

blizzard firebirds WRC and HRC, look on the site, they come with a xcell 14 or flat with a race plate

nordica spitfire line

Stockli has the ones said a few posts back

Volkl has a racetiger cheater

Those are the ones worth taking a look at. And you can find some good deals on them. In fact I think Corbett’s has blizzards right now for a decent price with clamps.

[Mofro261]

What would be some of the beer league/cheater skis? If 170-173cm GS skis are U14er's would this be a good option for a GS ski that would be more manageable? 155 or 165 for an SL ski?

155 +/- is Women's SL, 165 is Mens SL. There is nothing else. I'd go 165cm unless you are really tiny <140lbs and also think you'll actually run a SL course. Both have similar ~12M radius.

There are FIS norms for M, W, and Jr.'s. A U16 (for 14-15 yro's) FIS norm will be ~23M and run 180+, but much below that (17Xcm, <20M) the Jr skis also are softer and lighter so usually not a good choice for adults.

A "cheater race ski" is any non-FIS ski marketed to the masses, "cheater" because one can get an 18M radius ski to make a 27M+ turn, but getting a 27M+ ski to carve a 18M requires both technique and brute strength and is very tiring*. All the big brands- atomic redster G9, Volkl racetiger rmotion, Rossi, Fischer, Nordica, etc make a non-fis ski that fits this mold (~18M+/- and 175-185cm sizes).

And yeah, sharpen the edges 2*/1* or maybe run 3*side/1*base on any rec ski and that should greatly improve hard snow performance.

(*4 prs of M's and W's FIS 188+ 30M & 35M GS skis collecting dust in the ski room, while the 23M ones still get used).

[dcpnz]

The edge grip and quickness of a true race ski is exhilarating and substantially different than even the best front side carvers.

But there is no way very many, if any, folks should be on a current FIS GS ski (193/30m or even the women’s 188/30m) on an open resort run.

I’ve skied on my kids race skis often enough to know that junior skis are not designed for fat fucks like me (actually I’m not even particularly fat, or heavy or skilled in the dark arts of racing).

If I get on something in the 175cm/23m range, which has been pointed out is a u14/small u16 ski and is designed and flexed as such for a ~110lb person, I can have decent fun just cruising. But then you get overconfident and decide to get after it a little and just when you start going quick and get on the front of the boot and the ski they fold and hook, unpredictably and dangerously so.

I can actually get by fairly well on a 182/25m radius which is generally a u16 ski and although I haven’t been on them yet I suspect the 185 would be even better, but by then we’re at ~27m radius which requires way more room to run and require speed and good technique all the time.

Thats where the cheater or master skis come in - they’re flexed for adults but feature the length and radius of the junior skis while still offering higher performance than the frontside carver.

If you’re just looking to have some fun on groomers through a dry spell and not actually running gates regularly I reckon the all mountain frontside carving ski is the way to go - much more versatile than even a master race ski and good enough to run a nastar every now and then. If you’re actually going to run gates often then go with a masters/cheater race ski.

Edit: yeah get your mx83s tuned properly, take care of them, have fun and don’t bother looking for anything else.

[The Tortoise]

I have a pair of older Dynastar SLs in a 165 that can be a lot of fun. I'm 230, raced when I was younger and have strong carving technique. They are a lot of fun, but are a lot of work and you really need your be on your game.

I also have a pair of the Course Ti's (same era as the slalom skis) in a 177 with a 16 m radius. I love these skis. If you drive them hard they can do shorter turns and will rail medium-long turns all day long. You still need to be on your game but they are a lot more forgiving than the SL's.

Both skis have their plusses but I mostly ski the Course Ti's because of the versatility.

Both skis have the race plate.

[utagonian]

I could live without my gs skis but not my SLs. Even though they can be as demanding as a readhead girlfriend sometimes.

[PB]

I could live without my gs skis but not my SLs. Even though they can be as demanding as a readhead girlfriend sometimes.

'Tis true. SLs=Gingers!

Don't overlook the Masters options either; picked up a pair of Masters GS skis (174 cm, R 21; definitely not FIS). Very nice.
Especially for a beat up, old free-heeler.

[skinipenem]

GS skis on an open empty slope are so much gid damn fun! This thread has me jonesing!

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[iriponsnow]

'Tis true. SLs=Gingers!.

[Vmango]

I bought some Stockli Laser GS this past winter for more or less the same purpose and they're pretty awesome. I'll echo that you don't want a FIS ski - doubt you'll approach the limits of something like a Laser GS or some of the other skis in its class.

I am a former racer.

You need to be very focused all the time with these types of skis. There is no relax. Super one dimensional but amazing when you want to carve like a champ at mach 1

Fast as hell and carve through pure ice down the boilerplate.

Plan on using them in beer league racing as well.