Ukraine

[summit]

Well maybe if Trump offers an egregious enough plan, Europe will back Kyiv.

[Bunion 2020]

Maybe so.

I am AN ETERNAL OPTIMIST. But my gut, informed by a career spent studying and implementing American foreign policy, tells me this week will not go well. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is set to meet Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Rubios diplomatic experience is limited to his time in the Senate, during which he served on the Foreign Relations and Intelligence Committees. He has primarily focused on Latin American policy. Lavrov, on the other hand, has been Russia’s foreign minister since 2004, which makes him the longest-serving foreign minister in modern history. Before that he was a career diplomat. He is known for both his diplomatic savvy and his mastery of deception. The subject of the Rubio-Lavrov discussions will be Ukraine, a nation that will not have a representative at these alleged peace talks. President Volodymyr Zelensky stated that any decisions made during these talks without Ukraine's participation are unacceptable. Representatives from NATO, the EU, or any European nation have not been formally invited to take part in the sessions. Perhaps my gut is just reflecting my bias toward Ukrainians being allowed to defend their territorial sovereignty and their nation’s independence.

THE MEETING BETWEEN RUBIO AND LAVROV will not be one of equals. As a senator, Rubio was, until late in his tenure, a strong supporter of aid to Ukraine. But he now must represent a more transactional president whose skepticism of Ukraine and friendliness to Russia go back years. Lavrov represents a paranoid, aggressive, authoritarian regime that still sees itself as engaged in a long-term war against the United States and Europe. The hastily announced meeting being held in Saudi Arabia—an authoritarian Gulf Arab state—may have repercussions far from the war that is ostensibly being settled. The Trump administration and Ukraine must both be struck by the parallels to a previous Trump peace agreement in which another inexperienced secretary of state made a deal with a more seasoned enemy to end a war without any American allies in the room—Trump’s Doha Agreement with the Taliban. Trump hasthat the American withdrawal from Afghanistan—which his Doha Agreement guaranteed—inspired Putin to invade Ukraine. If that’s the case, he should consider what lessons others, like Xi Jinping, might take from an American abandonment of Ukraine. Back in February 2022, the night before tanks rolled across the border of Ukraine, all intelligence indicators suggested that Russia was indeed about to invade, but I remember thinking no one in their right mind would be so foolish as to start such a war. But because of what I’ve learned about Putin over decades serving in Europe, watching him become increasingly emboldened, my gut told me he would be just that rash and reckless. Putin did give the order, his troops indeed crossed into a sovereign country, and the costs to Russia will take generations to recover. The United States and NATO can counter Putin’s criminal action and restore international order—not just in Europe, but anywhere an aggressive, authoritarian country might be considering a land-grab. I hope this time my gut is wrong, and that our support for Ukraine continues.

https://www.thebulwark.com/p/marco-r...-russia-lavrov

[4matic]

Two mob bosses send consigliere to divide territory

[garyfromterrace]

Peace talks that do not include 1/2 of the 2 countries involved... Fuck Putin.

[Cisco Kid]

Well, Jarod secured a peace treaty with Israel and Palistine using the same MO. And it's working out just as the council planned. So there's that

[ex-powderbroker]

Don’t forget the historic deal in Afghanistan he made without the leaders there.

[MultiVerse]

Only about 8-percent of Americans have a favorable view of Russia. Flat-earthers, chemtrail believers, and Putin lovers… but I repeat myself

[The Reverend Floater]

Well maybe if Trump offers an egregious enough plan, Europe will back Kyiv.

I sort of think that's the plan ..if you want to call it that.

Fuck Russia.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[Meconium]

Do you think there is a plan? Ad-lib.

[MultiVerse]

Europe needs to step up. Even without the U.S. Ukraine can defeat Russia with European NATO help. But FWIW, the American admin's strategic concept (who knows what Trump himself really wants) is anti-China diplomacy at the expense of Europe. The idea is a reset with Russia so the Kremlin becomes allied against China. Sort of a reverse Nixon détente. The problem is every president since Clinton tried to reset relations with Russia, and they all got played. Every single one of them.

Putin and the Presidents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEu0oRajJxE

Even Taiwan says slamming the door shut on Ukraine opens the door for Xi to invade the island

[mcski]

Ukraine started the war and Zellinsky is a dictator. Quite a shift for Rubio in a couple years. We are gonna need a Taiwan thread very soon. Fucking assholery

[ex-powderbroker]

Maybe a Ukrainian War Is Over thread after Trump puts boots down to denazify and hand it over to Putin.

[Cisco Kid]

Putin and trump justify saying that the Ukraine started it when they sought a NATO seat. So kinda like the Remember the Maine war. Calling a spade a spade, it's not unusual for 2 imperialists to agree on motive to be imperialists.

[XXX-er]

according to my goggle 850,000 russian have been killed





The russian figure skating coach ignored his draft notice I love to hear him splain in russian acent how he wishs nasty death on putin and his family

[dan_pdx]

It will be expensive in money and lives for Ukraine and Europe to go their own way, but I hope they do. Once everyone starts bypassing Trump, his power goes away.

[mcski]

Hopefully that number continues to increase

[jackstraw]

Trump needs to drop fucking dead today

[XXX-er]

Zellinsky actual gave a presidential answer befitting the head of a sovergien state while of course your president was a dumb ass

[riser4]

Zellinsky actual gave a presidential answer befitting the head of a sovergien state while of course your president was a dumb ass

You're not wrong.

[garyfromterrace]

Responding to Jackstraw comment about the Orange Shit Gibbon needing to drop dead - YES. That ignorant shit stain had the gall to drop this one today - You should have never started it, he said. May he and all those who voted for him rot in hell. And, do not give me that fucking bullshit about oh, they did not know this could happen. They saw his 4 years of chaos, and did not have the minimal intelligence to see him botch literally every fucking thing he touched. FUCK! edit it is so much fun taking out all of my apostrophes. I may not ever use on again. It is so freeing.

[dan_pdx]

Zellinsky actual gave a presidential answer befitting the head of a sovergien state while of course your president was a dumb ass

Well yeah...one thing I know for certain: if you feel you have to tell people that you're (a genius/well-endowed/rich/etc) it's proof you're none of those things and deep down you know it. "Stable genius" says it all

[John_B]

What the fuck?! Trump is a goddamn fucking moron and the right wing continuing to tolerate this shit is completely fucked up. Rot in hell assholes.

[4matic]

I know more than a few Republicans that desire neo-Christian fascism like Russia:

“Putin has framed Russia as a paradigm of Christian virtue, positioning itself against an increasingly “immoral” and cosmopolitan West. This adds another dimension to the war in Ukraine. For Putin, the battle for the Westward-looking Kyiv is a struggle for Christendom.

Additionally, like all fascists, Putin has shown his disdain for individualism in his harsh repression of internal dissent. And there are countless other fascistic characteristics of Putin’s rule, from the cult of personality surrounding him, his intense jingoism, the corporatist state he has built in Russia, and the way he has utilized intelligence and security forces to maintain his grip on power.”

[ötzi]

It'd be wise to take that last part seriously going forward. Just in the back of your mind, for now. But don't think nothing like that can happen here. I have a feeling things are gonna get messy at some point in this country. Fortunately these guys are the same ones who booked Four Seasons landscaping for Rudy and who came up with their original dumb half-assed coup attempt. But unfortunately these are the same weak dumbass people on the other side of them.

[Cisco Kid]

It couldn't happen here. Famous words like "It's a done deal" and "I'll pull out"