FEMA red tape 101... or what happens when a PA rescue team gets called up.

[Free Range Lobster]

This is from someone I know, he wrote this before they finally got the OK to go... Then got the rug torn out from under them... Nice huh?

I was informed of my 'Surge' team activation @ approximately 5pm on Friday (9/2). I was told to be at the fire house by midnight and that we'd be leaving for Harrisburg, Pa @ 330am. Once in Harrisburg we'd be registered, our credentials verified, and given inoculation shots. At some point after all is said and done, there’d be a 70 ambulance convoy to Louisiana - somewhere outside New Orleans where we'd then find out our true role in the relief effort.

I quickly washed and packed clothes, went on a quick shopping spree at a local outdoor/camping supply store for various items such as insect repellant, emergency water purification straw, & iodine tablets. In theory we're supposed to be supplied with food & water once in La, but lets face it, you can’t trust the government to keep their promises.

I left for the fire house @ 930pm and arrived around 1015. I ate & then proceeded to help fellow crew-mates John & Dan along with a couple fire-fighters helping us out. We were able to secure a stash of Cipro, Benedryl, Neosporin, Imodium, Motrin, etc from a local pharmacy. We had various products donated by local businesses such as water, canned food, and various camping equipment - All very helpful.

All our equipment was to be packed into one ambulance and our OIC (officer-in-charge) vehicle, a ford explorer. By 1130pm we were informed that we were not allowed to bring the OIC vehicle, per PEMA. This development threw a monkey wrench into plans. It was decided we'd take it anyway while Dan made phone calls in an attempt to get approval to take it.

Come 1am, we're informed that departure has been delayed to late morning/afternoon. We all crashed for the night.

I was awaken @ 9am and told to head to the station. Upon my arrival I found the OIC vehicle unpacked along with the ambulance - it was being repacked as the OIC was officially given the thumbs down.

Soon we'd be informed of a pissing match between the US Department of Health & PEMA (Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency) over what the paramedics would be allowed to do out of state. We'd eventually get the green light for the ambulances and medics to go to Louisiana, but now they’re denying the support trailers to go which were being supplied by various counties. And that’s where I/We are at now. Its 1241pm as I finish and we're still waiting to leave. We're packed & ready, but we're being held up. Various unknown officials are calling senators and representatives complaining of the hold-up. But they’re moving at a snails pace. Figures...

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its 230pm now. we're waiting on 330pm for word on wether we will be going or if we will be standing down. This is such a cluster fuck. People are pissed right now. FEMA has its head so far up its own ass its ridiculous even when considering theyre a government agency.

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We're standing down now. thanks for your support. We may go sometime later in the future. But not now. We're all bummed, we wanted to go. But it all got fucked up. All in all - 20 ambulances are heading to NOLA. A quarter of what was intended.

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So there you have it kids, what happens when FEMA steps in and FUCKS THINGS UP.

[Nobody Famous]

It sounds messed up.

Maybe the PA state legistators are too busy spending their recent unvouchered, 18 to 36% pay raise -- that circumvented the state constitution -- to worry about emergency preparedness, mutual aid pacts and helping out in a national disaster. After all, they passed that raise just after 1) denying to pay life insurance premiums of national guardsmen/women sent overseas, and 2) voting to cut medicare benefits to the state's seniors. (Gotta get the pay raise money from somewhere, you understand).

[DJSapp]

The thing is, if the emergency people really cared [edit: in reference to mid-level managers at PEMA], they would have said, "Fuck the man and their red tape, we're going." Instead they are more scared about preserving their jobs and funding that they'll sit around and wait for the paperwork while people die. I hate this fucking country.

What does it take to gain perminent citizenship in Europe, Austrialia or NZ?

[edited for clearification]

[Free Range Lobster]

DJSapp: the issue is you can't just drive down saying "fuck the infrastructure!" there needs to be order and command and control for things to operate correctly otherwise you'd have 300 workers at one location helping 10 people and 1000 others going "where's the workers?!" at another.

[bklyn]

The thing is, if the emergency people really cared, they would have said, "Fuck the man and their red tape, we're going." Instead they are more scared about preserving their jobs and funding that they'll sit around and wait for the paperwork while people die. I hate this fucking country.

What does it take to gain perminent citizenship in Europe, Austrialia or NZ?

BS.

How are they going to get down there, without the state ok and really help?
Without equipment, medicine, sanctioned transportation, they won't even get near. If they do get in there, how can they really help? Where are they going to stay? How are they going to stay healthy without clean water and food?

I want to hear your master plan. Otherwise a bunch of americans would be down there on the ground 'helping'.

[DJSapp]

DJSapp: the issue is you can't just drive down saying "fuck the infrastructure!" there needs to be order and command and control for things to operate correctly otherwise you'd have 300 workers at one location helping 10 people and 1000 others going "where's the workers?!" at another.

The command and control that matters is the main stations on the ground near NO, not determining if someone from PA can drive a Ford Explorer filled with supplies to the site. This is the nonsense that pisses me off. Yes, there is a need for command and control at the site to prevent your point. The command and control that comes from offsite is so often the problem with political organizations. They all seem to want permission to do anything, instead of acting in the best interests of all, and settling the bills afterward.

Tracy, reread the original post and my post. They were PEMA responders who were FULLY TRAINED, EQUIPED, AND PREPARED to help with water, medicine, food, etc. The guberment stopped them because two agencies started fighting with each other. The fact that they are too busy playing politics to help save lifes is what pisses me off.

[Free Range Lobster]

disaster control is a layered concept

you can't just have one person running the show
it just dosen't work that way

you need to have someone who knows the strengths and weaknesses of each team running their show and getting marching orders from a chain of command

and the gear they wanted in the explorer was kinda necessary for their own units to function correctly

[cj001f]

Isn't the issue liability, ie what care PA licensed paramedics would be able to provide in Louisiana?
"Soon we'd be informed of a pissing match between the US Department of Health & PEMA (Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency) over what the paramedics would be allowed to do out of state."

[Free Range Lobster]

liability, their role down there and what they can and can't do.

red tape and more red tape

[Free Range Lobster]

More shit from the warzone...

from a ridemonkey poster:

*Update*
Wed 10:00 am
I am at an airport just outside the city and somehow they have power and Internet
It’s been so busy here we teamed up with a SAR group (search and rescue) and have now started looking for bodies. The scene here is indescribable I can only say it’s like what they show on TV only 5 times worse, and the majority of the people are not helping the situation. It seems like everyone has this “where the hell have you been” attitude.
I had my camera with me so I could have pics but it was stolen off our truck by “looters” while I was sleeping along with some expensive radios and a $10,000 imaging camera.
Funny how none of our food and water was taken.
Looks we will be on or way out this Friday

[zion zig zag]

The thing is, if the emergency people really cared, they would have said, "Fuck the man and their red tape, we're going." Instead they are more scared about preserving their jobs and funding that they'll sit around and wait for the paperwork while people die.

Hey, fuck you, why didn't you go? Yeah, i'm worried about preserving my job, that's how I live mf'er. And guess what, even though this happened, people at home are still having heart attacks, getting in car wrecks and causing house fires.

[DJSapp]

Hey, fuck you, why didn't you go? Yeah, i'm worried about preserving my job, that's how I live mf'er. And guess what, even though this happened, people at home are still having heart attacks, getting in car wrecks and causing house fires.

Why didn't I go? I am not trained in search and rescue. I would be a liability out there.

The people I was speaking in reference to are the local SAR divisions that know just how much they can spare, but instead of doing something, good old red tape dictates they must wait until Zeus almighty hurls his thunderbolt to make the wheels move. Acting before being given permission and showing initative results in being repremanded in government, whereas in the private section it is rewarded.

If all of the local SAR agencies said "Hey, we have trained people and supplies and we'll most likely be called upon to help, let's send a reasonable amount to the onsite command post and be ahead of the game, and if there's too many, then some get sent back. The cost of a cross country road trip is fairly cheap compared to waiting while the disaster gets worse." Instead, they sit around for days while the seagulls decide who to shit on. That is what I'm fucking pissed off about. Sorry that my point was somewhat unclear before.

[slim]

Why didn't I go? I am not trained in search and rescue. I would be a liability out there.

You're an engineer. Why didn't you take your company F-250 and drive down there to help with flooding mitigation and reconstruction? Because your ass would have been fired just like the S&R folks.

Your comment to say fuck off and go was completely out of line DJ.

[DJSapp]

You're an engineer. Why didn't you take your company F-250 and drive down there to help with flooding mitigation and reconstruction? Because your ass would have been fired just like the S&R folks.

Yes, I would have been fired if I did that. No doubt. I work in the private industry. If we go over budget, the company goes bankrupt. If a government organization goes over budget, they get a slap on the wrist and funding is brought in from somewhere else. I still would have been a liability out there because I would not have had any of the equipment to do anything. Levee repair and flood control takes major heavy equipment which neither I or my company owns. However, it was discussed in my office why the hell FEMA or other (larger) contractors didn't have a line of barges with equipment, boulders and sandbags at the levee breaches within a week of the failures.

Your comment to say fuck off and go was completely out of line DJ.

Seeing how it has been misinterperted from my original intention and I was a little hot and bothered when I wrote it, it could seem that way. However, I see the failure of mid-level government mangers everyday; granted on a smaller scale, but the disease is the same. All they are capable of saying is "No. We can't do that." No reasoning, no logic, no compassion for their fellow man or even an attempt to understand the situation. I fight this every single day I come into the office. It disgusts me. This failure to provide disaster response in NO is a grand example of the soft middle in our government. Back to likwids original post, his buddies unit was activated, they prepared and got ready to go.

By 1130pm we were informed that we were not allowed to bring the OIC vehicle, per PEMA. This development threw a monkey wrench into plans. It was decided we'd take it anyway while Dan made phone calls in an attempt to get approval to take it.

The mid-level manager at PEMA got scared that they would not be allowed to spend the money. No thought that if he sent the entire team, there would not be anyone to USE the OIC vehicle, nor that the OIC vehicle is what makes the team effective. Soon afterward when Dan started making phone calls, I assume it became elevated above the mid-level at PEMA, and then a higher up at PEMA started asking questions about their role, and exactly what would be needed. Enter US Dept. of Health. Government starts fighting with government, and 50 less ambulances are in NO now saving people from disease.

My point of the level that should have said "Fuck the man and their red tape" was the Mid-level manager at PEMA that said "We can send the people and ambulances, but not the support vehicles that make the ambulances effective." If that one person would have said, go; spend the money and use the resources, there would be 50 more ambulances down there saving lives of people who are being evacuated out of raw sewage.

Slim or anyone else, if you would like to further discuss why I didn't go, or if my point is still unclear, please PM me. I've made my public statement as clear as I feel possible. And FYI, I am an engineer for a heavy civil contractor in Los Angeles, CA, currently working on a project for the LACMTA.

edit: I edited my original post for clearification.

[cj001f]

One of the recommendations of the 9/11 comission (remember them) was

"Public safety organizations, chief administrative officers, state emergency management agencies, and the Department of Homeland Security should develop a regional focus within the emergency responder community and romote multi-jurisdictional mutual assistance compacts.Where such compacts already exist, training in accordance with their terms should be required.Congress should pass legislation to remedy the long-standing indemnification and liability impediments to the provision of public safety mutual aid in the National Capital Region and where applicable throughout the nation." (Bold mine, pg 397 of the report)

Once again we repeat the errors of our past.

[DJSapp]

Clearity, at last. I heard this report about the coast guard and their actions on NPR this morning. These are the decisions that needed to happen down in the smaller SAR and disaster response teams I was trying (and apparently failing ) to convey in my above posts, as stated by someone much more elequent than I.

link

Coast Guard Praised for Katrina Response

Listen to this story... by Chris Arnold

Morning Edition, September 9, 2005 · While many federal agencies appear to have been slow to react to Katrina, the Coast Guard was plucking people off rooftops and sending all available equipment and rescue workers to the scene. One unit from Massachusetts dispatched rescue crews to the region as the storm approached. Chris Arnold reports.