$4K Trail Bike

**toast2266** · 05-11-2022, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by ticketchecker

How's that old equation go? Weight, strength and price. Pick two

That's why I bought a Range. It has lots of weight, strength, and price.

**adrenalated** · 05-11-2022, 03:57 PM

lol. My Patrol also has all three.

**simple** · 05-11-2022, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by ticketchecker

How's that old equation go? Weight, strength and price. Pick two

Always a favorite of Mr. Bontrager

Usually applied for parts but with new ebike standards we see massively overbuilt frames Strength increases reminds me that brands got tired of Internet smear campaigns when a few anonymous dorks had to warranty their Yetis.

**Falcon3** · 05-11-2022, 08:35 PM

What’s dropper clearance like on those Hugenes? I’d be on a L and I’ve got pretty short legs. Transition Sentinel (what I’m leaning toward for my next bike) is just so impressive that their L frame comes stock with a 210 dropper.

**smmokan** · 05-11-2022, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Falcon3

What’s dropper clearance like on those Hugenes? I’d be on a L and I’ve got pretty short legs. Transition Sentinel (what I’m leaning toward for my next bike) is just so impressive that their L frame comes stock with a 210 dropper.

The dropper on my bike -pictured two pages back- is a BikeYoke 160mm, I couldn't fit a 185. I've got a ~ 31" inseam and generally can't run longer dropper posts.

I had the same issue with their Tyee- not a big deal on the Hugene (for me), but on a big travel bike I wanted something longer so I went back to GG for my long travel option.

**wendigo** · 05-27-2022, 11:47 AM

any updates on the Hugene ride experience. also how did you size these things - any change up to 'normal'?

**toast2266** · 05-27-2022, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by wendigo

any updates on the Hugene ride experience. also how did you size these things - any change up to 'normal'?

I'm still psyched on mine. It seems like kind of the perfect "aggressive trail bike." It's respectably light, and it does a great job on climbs of balancing efficiency and traction. It's not an enduro sled on the way down, but it's entirely competent. It pops better than it plows, but it's not a mess when things get rough. It's reasonably stable at speed but still manages tighter, techier stuff ok.

I'm a fan of the long-ish rear end; it corners nicely and doesn't feel unplayful to me. I also like that the BB isn't crazy low - a bit better for pedaling through rocky areas.

For sizing, I (5'9" with long arms and long legs) went with a large. I'm pretty happy with that, although if the seat tube was a smidge steeper (and the top tube a smidge shorter) I wouldn't argue.

My only real complaint so far is that the rear end is kinda flexy. I think that's a product of a fairly light frame with a dual link suspension and really long seat stays. It doesn't really present a problem in terms of the ride, but I regularly buzz the tire on the seatstay in hard corners (even though there's pretty good clearance). Other minor quibbles are that the little cable bungs at the frame ports are fairly useless, the saddle isn't my personal cup of tea, and the handlebar is uncomfortably stiff.

**North** · 05-30-2022, 09:19 PM

School me on sizing.

My old bike was a 2017 Patrol ("Large", 457mm reach), so I'm coming off of dated geometry. The bike felt fine to me seated/pedaling, but could feel small descending. Sometimes felt like it had small sweet spot on steeper/rougher trails. Would sometimes get comments that it looked small for me.

I'm 6'1" and have always ridden "Larges." I'm looking at a Norco Sight, and their size chart is an outlier compared to other bikes I've considered. I'm firmly an XL (515mm reach) by Norco's rec, and usually in the middle of the L range by most others (~480-485mm). I've parking lot pedaled a S3 GG Smash (481mm), and an XL Spire (510mm) - both felt fine, no revelations either way. Most internet info seems to point to people my size being happy on the XL Sight, the numbers just look huge. Help bring my puzzling/decision paralysis to an end please.

**toast2266** · 05-30-2022, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by North

School me on sizing.

My old bike was a 2017 Patrol (457mm reach), so I'm coming off of dated geometry. The bike felt fine to me seated/pedaling, but could feel small descending. Sometimes felt like it had small sweet spot on steeper/rougher trails. Would sometimes get comments that it looked small for me.

I'm 6'1" and have always ridden "Larges." I'm looking at a Norco Sight, and their size chart is an outlier compared to other bikes I've considered. I'm firmly an XL (515mm reach) by Norco's rec, and usually in the middle of the L range by most others (~480-485mm). I've parking lot pedaled a S3 GG Smash (481mm), and an XL Spire (510mm) - both felt fine, no revelations either way. Most internet info seems to point to people my size being happy on the XL Sight, the numbers just look huge. Help bring my puzzling/decision paralysis to an end please.

I don't find assessing reach in a parking lot test to be particularly beneficial. Not to say reach doesn't matter (because it does), but a flat parking lot just doesn't lend itself to showing the differences. Kind of like trying to assess head angle differences in a parking lot - you can kind of feel the difference, but you're not gonna know which one you like better until you ride it on real trails.

An easier parking lot geo test is top tube length. Long reach numbers stretch the bike out, so the keep the top tube from getting crazy long, brands have steepened the seat tube angles. But some bikes have steeper SA's than others. If the seated position is too stretched out, it can get pretty uncomfortable on long climbs. And if you're super stretched out while seated, that's noticeable in a parking lot.

Geo preferences also depends a lot on how long your arms and legs are relative to your height. I (5'9" with long arms and legs) happily ride a large norco range and definitely wouldn't want to size down. I was also happy on an s3 GG smash. Unless you have especially short arms or legs for your height, I would think you'd want to be on an xl norco / s4 GG.

**wendigo** · 05-30-2022, 11:04 PM

heh - this discussion is going in a helpful direction.
mrs and i ride the same size bike (men's medium) for vastly different reasons.
i'm 5.10 w long arms and legs
she is 5.8 with a long torso (taller than me when seated), short legs - she didn't like cycling until we correctly sized a bike for her, now she loves it.
was trying to figure out the hugene for her - looking for lots of standover, tall stack, average reach. figure if it doesn't fit her then it is mine, but i'm happy with my gg trail pistola and more interested in swapping out her bike (giant trance advanced pro 29 1)

**smmokan** · 05-31-2022, 07:12 AM

Wendigo, where are you located? I *should* have a size run of Hugenes in 2-3 weeks. I’m in the Boulder area (Niwot), you’re welcome to come check them out.

**adrenalated** · 05-31-2022, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by North

School me on sizing.

My old bike was a 2017 Patrol ("Large", 457mm reach), so I'm coming off of dated geometry. The bike felt fine to me seated/pedaling, but could feel small descending. Sometimes felt like it had small sweet spot on steeper/rougher trails. Would sometimes get comments that it looked small for me.

I'm 6'1" and have always ridden "Larges." I'm looking at a Norco Sight, and their size chart is an outlier compared to other bikes I've considered. I'm firmly an XL (515mm reach) by Norco's rec, and usually in the middle of the L range by most others (~480-485mm). I've parking lot pedaled a S3 GG Smash (481mm), and an XL Spire (510mm) - both felt fine, no revelations either way. Most internet info seems to point to people my size being happy on the XL Sight, the numbers just look huge. Help bring my puzzling/decision paralysis to an end please.

FWIW - My newer than yours Patrol (MD, 450mm reach) and my Optic (MD, 450mm reach) have similar numbers overall. If anything the Norco should feel bigger (longer top tube) but in reality it feels slightly smaller. Norco thinks I should be on a large, I'm happy with the medium but I feel like on a longer travel bike like the Sight or Range I'd want to go large.

I'm starting to believe that bike geo numbers are like ski boot flex numbers and companies just make them up.

**toast2266** · 05-31-2022, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

I'm starting to believe that bike geo numbers are like ski boot flex numbers and companies just make them up.

Some company's numbers are definitely way off. I've measured a few bikes that aren't even remotely close to the published geo chart. Some are pretty accurate though.

**J. Barron DeJong** · 05-31-2022, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by North

School me on sizing.

My old bike was a 2017 Patrol ("Large", 457mm reach), so I'm coming off of dated geometry. The bike felt fine to me seated/pedaling, but could feel small descending. Sometimes felt like it had small sweet spot on steeper/rougher trails. Would sometimes get comments that it looked small for me.

I'm 6'1" and have always ridden "Larges." I'm looking at a Norco Sight, and their size chart is an outlier compared to other bikes I've considered. I'm firmly an XL (515mm reach) by Norco's rec, and usually in the middle of the L range by most others (~480-485mm). I've parking lot pedaled a S3 GG Smash (481mm), and an XL Spire (510mm) - both felt fine, no revelations either way. Most internet info seems to point to people my size being happy on the XL Sight, the numbers just look huge. Help bring my puzzling/decision paralysis to an end please.

I’m 6’4”, normally proportioned, and riding an XL Optic. I personally would be happy if the frame was a little bigger overall - I’ve lengthened the stem 10mm, higher rise bars, and have the saddle pushed back a little.

So for my preferences, it seems like the Norco sizing recs are spot on, since they put me at the top of the height range for an XL.

**North** · 05-31-2022, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by toast2266

Unless you have especially short arms or legs for your height, I would think you'd want to be on an xl norco / s4 GG.

Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

So for my preferences, it seems like the Norco sizing recs are spot on, since they put me at the top of the height range for an XL.

Gracias amigos. Exactly the feedback I was looking for. XL smash wagon en route.

**Falcon3** · 05-31-2022, 09:12 PM

New entry in the market by Marin in the mid-upper $4000s. https://www.marinbikes.com/bikes/202...specifications

Seems like a good price for the spec. Does seem to be a study in contradictions though.

Coil shock and 203rotors/XT 4-pistons with only 125mm travel. Not enough travel to keep up with bigger bikes but also seems like it’ll be pretty hefty and overbuilt for the travel it does have.

**panchosdad** · 05-31-2022, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Falcon3

New entry in the market by Marin in the mid-upper $4000s. https://www.marinbikes.com/bikes/202...specifications

Seems like a good price for the spec. Does seem to be a study in contradictions though.

Coil shock and 203rotors/XT 4-pistons with only 125mm travel. Not enough travel to keep up with bigger bikes but also seems like it’ll be pretty hefty and overbuilt for the travel it does have.

It's actually an appealing looking build to me, but I'd want to tie the spring rate on the coil to my weight and not the bike size. I'd hope there'd be some flexibility there.

**bonewrenched** · 05-31-2022, 09:51 PM

Wonder if they'll come out with a similar Alpine Trail build. Seems like that would be less contradictory.

I have the trail 7 and upgraded to a coil shock and better brakes, and I love it.

**J. Barron DeJong** · 05-31-2022, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Falcon3

New entry in the market by Marin in the mid-upper $4000s. https://www.marinbikes.com/bikes/202...specifications

Seems like a good price for the spec. Does seem to be a study in contradictions though.

Coil shock and 203rotors/XT 4-pistons with only 125mm travel. Not enough travel to keep up with bigger bikes but also seems like it’ll be pretty hefty and overbuilt for the travel it does have.

Other than the coil shock, those are the same features as my Optic, and I love my bike.

**adrenalated** · 05-31-2022, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Other than the coil shock, those are the same features as my Optic, and I love my bike.

I'm also loving my Optic and the overall aggressive spec, and I also love the coil shock on my Patrol, but I absolutely would not want a coil on my Optic.

**Falcon3** · 05-31-2022, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by bonewrenched

Wonder if they'll come out with a similar Alpine Trail build. Seems like that would be less contradictory.

I have the trail 7 and upgraded to a coil shock and better brakes, and I love it.

Apparently I haven’t looked at Marin for a bit, the Alpine Trail carbon 2 looks perfect. $4500! 150/160 carbon frame with a Fox38/DPx2 and SLx/XT parts? Damn.

Great modern geo too, looks very similar to a Sentinel on HT and ST angles. If it can handle a long dropper I’m putting this toward the top of my “Next Bike” list.

**toast2266** · 05-31-2022, 10:36 PM

I ran a coil on a trail pistol for a bit. It was kinda dumb in a fun way. I bet that Marin is also dumb in a fun way.

**GBB** · 06-01-2022, 01:07 PM

Who has spent time on a Knolly Fugitive? Curious about the differences between the previous LT version and the current version.

**J. Barron DeJong** · 06-01-2022, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

I'm also loving my Optic and the overall aggressive spec, and I also love the coil shock on my Patrol, but I absolutely would not want a coil on my Optic.

I have no need for a coil on my Optic, but assuming the progression on the linkage of the Marin is sufficient - and eyeballing it, it looks fairly progressive - I think it would ride perfectly well.

Given the short travel, I’m not sure the weight penalty of the coil is necessarily worth it, but that wouldn’t be enough to steer me away from the Marin if I liked the rest of the package for my needs.