Att zipfit gurus!

[GoldenBC]

I would think so. Take your footbeds out though

This

[chewski]

Thanks, all!

[garuda]

Just posted a minty pair of 28.5 Garas in gearswap if anyone is looking.

[asmvolatile]

hmmmmmm so this doesn’t seem like it’s gonna work…. Just got my first pair of zips and was so excited. Their online “liner selector” told me 28 Gara LV would work great in my 28.5 Tecnica Mach 1 LV. Clearly not…. The shell is absolutely busting open. Am I missing something? I bought these liners to take up room, I wouldn’t say I exactly have a race fit in these shells either. Has anyone else gotten zips in this boot?

[SoVT Joey]

hmmmmmm so this doesn’t seem like it’s gonna work…. Just got my first pair of zips and was so excited. Their online “liner selector” told me 28 Gara LV would work great in my 28.5 Tecnica Mach 1 LV. Clearly not…. The shell is absolutely busting open. Am I missing something? I bought these liners to take up room, I wouldn’t say I exactly have a race fit in these shells either. Has anyone else gotten zips in this boot?

ya. go to a shop, heat the shells and slide in. ive never heated my zips, only heated my shells and they all look like that to begin with. the heat from the shell will be enough to move the cork well too.

i have 27 LV garas in a 27.5 lange, well all three of my zips are 27 and all in 27.5 langes

[asmvolatile]

7052598[/URL]]ya. go to a shop, heat the shells and slide in. ive never heated my zips, only heated my shells and they all look like that to begin with. the heat from the shell will be enough to move the cork well too.

i have 27 LV garas in a 27.5 lange, well all three of my zips are 27 and all in 27.5 langes

hmm yeah I just assumed this wasn’t a cork migration thing since I literally can’t even reach the instep buckle to the first step. Figured heating would customize the fit to your foot but not reduce the volume of the liner. I can try some heat and see what happens.

[J. Barron DeJong]

hmmmmmm so this doesn’t seem like it’s gonna work…. Just got my first pair of zips and was so excited. Their online “liner selector” told me 28 Gara LV would work great in my 28.5 Tecnica Mach 1 LV. Clearly not…. The shell is absolutely busting open. Am I missing something? I bought these liners to take up room, I wouldn’t say I exactly have a race fit in these shells either. Has anyone else gotten zips in this boot?

If you read through the Zipfit thread on the SkiTalk forum you’ll see that that type of scenario is pretty common. I believe there are some tips on there about how to handle it.

[SoVT Joey]

hmm yeah I just assumed this wasn’t a cork migration thing since I literally can’t even reach the instep buckle to the first step. Figured heating would customize the fit to your foot but not reduce the volume of the liner. I can try some heat and see what happens.

the heat isnt going to be enough to melt stuff, its enough to make the plastic more flexible and stretch things for the initial heat. the plastic will constrict back as it cools. DO NOT over-tighten your buckles for the heat process. just enough to buckle them closed. i had intuitions years back and it took two guys pushing closed on the plastic and me buckling them to get them in the shell after heating and they worked out great for 60 days of skiing. zips dont take that much heat to move the cork and mold well to a shell, which is why they get that much better after a few days of skiing. body heat alone will make the cork soft and move. before my GFT, i would occasionally tour in my gara in my touring boot and that would cause the cork to move around. after a couple runs in my alpine boots they would be back to normal.


also try buckling your upper cuff and work down to the instep buckle

[enginerd]

Just posted a minty pair of 28.5 Garas in gearswap if anyone is looking.

Not sure about your specific situation but my impression is that zip fit is generally very amenable to swapping liners out for you if something doesn’t work.


Breathe

[arild]

Heat the liners, not the shell. Please.

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[jackattack]

Heat the liners, not the shell. Please.

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This. You need to move cork not plastic.

[asmvolatile]

Holy hell that SkiTalk thread is a gold mine but it’s 120 pages - I think after reading the first 20 I have a plan of attack. Long story short gonna give the liners (not shells) 175 degrees for 10mins in the oven and then put in shells and walk around. Do that 3x and see if it helps. I’ll report back if it still doesn’t work.

[DoubleBogey]

Yep heat the liner, not the shell. That looks totally normal for a first time fitting.

[DoubleBogey]

Not sure about your specific situation but my impression is that zip fit is generally very amenable to swapping liners out for you if something doesn’t work.


Breathe

Only if you haven’t added or subtracted cork

[DoubleBogey]

Holy hell that SkiTalk thread is a gold mine but it’s 120 pages - I think after reading the first 20 I have a plan of attack. Long story short gonna give the liners (not shells) 175 degrees for 10mins in the oven and then put in shells and walk around. Do that 3x and see if it helps. I’ll report back if it still doesn’t work.

Wrap them in a towel so they don’t have any contact points to hot iron. I pre-heat to 170 (lowest setting) and then shut the oven off, put in for 10-12 minutes. Ideally it works best if you have a heated boot bag to soften the shells up a little bit.

[Muggydude]

IMO the best fit you can get is to have a boot that generally fits your foot shape well with stock liners, a little tight in a few places is fine. If you have extra tight areas/pressure points or areas where you want a bit of extra room (I.e. sides of forefoot, toe caps, instep) pad those up with foam under your sock. Use thin socks.

Then get zipfits, and throw them into a warmer for a bit (not as hot or long as most normal liner molds, but warm enough to help cork move easier).

At the same time, put the shells in the Salomon/atomic boot oven for a full heat mold bake.

Once those are both ready, pop them out, put In your foot beds in liners, then feet in liners, then liners/feet into boots. Lightly buckle, stand in a skiing stance for 10-15 minutes until cool.

For me, this process produces a “plug like” boot fit, but comfortable enough to ski all day 7 days a week. I have maybe 125 days on my shells and zipfit freeride liners after doing this? I just now have moved from the thinnest sock I can find to a slightly thicker sock due to “packing out” after 100+ days. Magic boots for sure.

I have never had to bother adding or removing cork with this method. I use a heated boot bag every day, my feet start warm and stay warm. It also makes getting into the shells a lot easier.

In regards to the comments above - my shells were much too small with the zipfits prior to baking. My Salomon X-Pro 130 shells are made for heat molding and expanding a lot, but I’m pretty sure most shells these days can do the same thing.

IMO, it makes sense to start with shells that are too low volume to start (with zipfits, not stock liners), and do the molding process with shells and liners to let them expand where needed, and it won’t expand where it’s not (internal pressure is what causes the shells to expand).

Only heating the liners only works if the shell volume is big enough for zipfits to start, which it often is not. Only heating the shells can work too, but you’re just adding some extra days of break in to get the cork to move while skiing, and you also have a better chance of causing hot spots or actually having the shell expand too much in certain areas where the cork is too thick from the factory. Eventually if the cork migrates out of those spots, you can end up with slop there.

I still have a ~1cm shell fit post baking.

My .02

[arild]

IMO the best fit you can get is to have a boot that generally fits your foot shape well with stock liners, a little tight in a few places is fine. If you have extra tight areas/pressure points or areas where you want a bit of extra room (I.e. sides of forefoot, toe caps, instep) pad those up with foam under your sock. Use thin socks.

Then get zipfits, and throw them into a warmer for a bit (not as hot or long as most normal liner molds, but warm enough to help cork move easier).

At the same time, put the shells in the Salomon/atomic boot oven for a full heat mold bake.

Once those are both ready, pop them out, put In your foot beds in liners, then feet in liners, then liners/feet into boots. Lightly buckle, stand in a skiing stance for 10-15 minutes until cool.

For me, this process produces a “plug like” boot fit, but comfortable enough to ski all day 7 days a week. I have maybe 125 days on my shells and zipfit freeride liners after doing this? I just now have moved from the thinnest sock I can find to a slightly thicker sock due to “packing out” after 100+ days. Magic boots for sure.

I have never had to bother adding or removing cork with this method. I use a heated boot bag every day, my feet start warm and stay warm. It also makes getting into the shells a lot easier.

In regards to the comments above - my shells were much too small with the zipfits prior to baking. My Salomon X-Pro 130 shells are made for heat molding and expanding a lot, but I’m pretty sure most shells these days can do the same thing.

IMO, it makes sense to start with shells that are too low volume to start (with zipfits, not stock liners), and do the molding process with shells and liners to let them expand where needed, and it won’t expand where it’s not (internal pressure is what causes the shells to expand).

Only heating the liners only works if the shell volume is big enough for zipfits to start, which it often is not. Only heating the shells can work too, but you’re just adding some extra days of break in to get the cork to move while skiing, and you also have a better chance of causing hot spots or actually having the shell expand too much in certain areas where the cork is too thick from the factory. Eventually if the cork migrates out of those spots, you can end up with slop there.

I still have a ~1cm shell fit post baking.

My .02

I don't disagree, but heating the shells and the risk of over tightening, which is a bitch when you figure out you ovalized the holes where the t-nuts sit. I know this from experience, last season. Found it a lot simpler, at least less stressful, to do incremental heat fittings of just the liners. Heated boot bag that rarely goes above 40°C for the shells.

So, my process is, after adding, subtracting or just moving cork,to put my hot air stove on at 75°C, think for a second what that might mean in Freedom units, dismiss that thought, throw liners in the oven without footbeds(I have forgotten that step once or twice, never a good idea), leave them in for 10-15 minutes. Throw in footbeds, put on my ladies' 40 denier stockings(I ski with these, pretty sexy), liners on, tighten the crap out of them, enter shells, pull the heel tab up while alternately leaning forward and stomping down, then stand still, go into skiing stance, walk around, do whatever. It's not much fun, but at least it's not painful.

If you're getting cold feet in habitable temperatures, it's very likely that some cork can be moved from one place to the other, most likely a hindrance of venous return.

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[Muggydude]

For sure, a key word is lightly buckle the boots so you don’t deform the shells or holes. Just tight enough to snug them up and get the overlaps in place properly. You also have to know/figure out the right temperature and length of time to bake your specific shells, it varies brand to brand and boot to boot. Overheating the shells is definitely a recipe for problems. In that regards it’s much easier/safer to do this process with boots that have heat molding instructions from the manufacturer to begin with (like Salomon and Atomic). I think some other brands do have official recommendations now too, but I have no idea.

Heated boot bag every day use is just to get the shells warm enough to flex well getting the liners in start of the day, and for overall foot warmth by starting in warm boots.

The liners or shells don’t get that hot, but are warm enough to do a “micro mold” every day of skiing and have the cork warm enough to flow a bit if needed. It makes more of a difference the first 10 days on snow, after 100+ days I don’t think my liners are really changing in any way, although the first few days of the season I also feel like my feet/legs and liners are re-adapting to eachother.

[kc_7777]

I used our fancy steam oven in convection mode which can get down to 150F….our regular oven only goes down to 200F. My wife’s face is priceless when I’m pulling leather liners out of the new oven.

The first time I heated the liner, and stepped in the shell I had to push damn hard. And I don’t have a low volume shell though.

Easier second time. And then easier again the third time.

Now I drive to the hill with my liners and shells inside a heated boot bag.

Even easier.

After 3 bakes and 15 ski days they’re awesome.


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[DoubleBogey]

Another thing I did, and still do, is warm up two bottles of water (get them hot, not boiling. 3-4 minutes in the microwave) and put one in each liner while in my heated boot bag on my 45 minute drive to ski.

I don’t put my shells in the heated bag, it’s too big of a bitch to get my liners back in my boot without my foot in it.

[Judo Chop!]

Whatever happened to just 45sec in the microwave?
Keep it simple

[DoubleBogey]

I wouldn’t go over 20 seconds in the microwave at a time, was also told (not by zipfit) that the microwave doesn’t uniformly warm the OMfit. Meh

[bennettc14]

Heating shells in convection oven works well if you have thick plastic racing boots. They soak up a lot of heat and transfer to liners but won’t mold the shell in any way. Can combine with quick microwave heating of liners if needed.


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[FlimFlamvanHam]

Whatever happened to just 45sec in the microwave?
Keep it simple

Ha. I destroyed my left liner (literally burned right through one of the ankles both inside and out; smoke everywhere) with some microwave tom-fuckery, I'd heated the right for 20secs. Little warm. Did another 30secs and the ankles were nice and warm and easy to move the OMfit. So figured 20 + 30 and threw the left in for 50secs.

Huge shout out to the guys are Zipfit for bailing me out. Oh, and all you who believe leather guts are different to neoprene? I've been skiing on one of each (Gara leather on left and surviving Gara neoprene on right) for most of this season and I can only tell a difference putting on and taking off the liner (as we all know the leather is grippy). Skiing them I cannot tell one bit of difference. They feel identical. Maybe if I skied barefoot?

ZF guys figure they gave me the stranded left of the right they gave JE at Blister years ago. They gave him a pair with a one leather and one neoprene so he could see if there was a difference and per ZF he's still skiing that mismatched pair today. If so he clearly feels the same way. I'll have to reach out to him to see if that's true.

[enginerd]

Oh, and all you who believe leather guts are different to neoprene? I've been skiing on one of each (Gara leather on left and surviving Gara neoprene on right) for most of this season and I can only tell a difference putting on and taking off the liner (as we all know the leather is grippy). Skiing them I cannot tell one bit of difference. They feel identical. Maybe if I skied barefoot?

I’m one of those guys. This is super interesting. While I tend to stand by my feeling that my now 14 year old leather world cups were a more precise fit (specifically on either side of my achilles), my old technica shells were also a much better fit. I definitely attribute more of the reduction in overall performance to shell fit than going from leather to neoprene. The new Gara is obviously still an awesome liner.