Backlash Against Vail Resorts

[Danno]

And this article from snowbrains has some good maps/pics (at the top, in the middle, and at the bottom) showing the size of the project relative to other recent ones in the same area: https://snowbrains.com/vail-resorts-...protect-sheep/

It also points out the fact that this is a pretext because this a project for affordable housing.

And this article discusses the environmental review and approval that WAS done as part of the project: https://denvergazette.com/news/busin...482c9ebf9.html

[Ottime]

Good, however most of these systems are designed to stop a hacker who has stolen your information. For skiing I image a different senario. Such as two bros who just want to get a lower price for skiing. One bro works 9-5 and is a weekend warrior, the other bro is a ski bum and skis 9 to noon during the week. The 9-5 bro gets a confirmation request on his phone every weekday around 9am, and he pushes the "Accept" button.

I think you must understand the tech I’m speaking of. The only way that would work is if you skied with your bros phone for the day. The bounce is off the phone SIM for verification. But, sure, you could work around that but then bro would be w/o a phone for the day. Or you’d both need to invest together in a phone and phone plane that is just to hold your shared ski pass. Seems like a lot of work to save a few bucks.

[brutah]

Are you a lawyer and a wildlife biologist? Because I don't think you know what you are talking about when it comes to bighorn sheep and the habitat they need for survival. In fact, the largest herd of rocky mountain bighorn sheep, the Georgetown herd, utilizes land right next to I-70 all winter, making it the most popular herd in the state due to their visibility.

Why doesn't Vail build employee housing on the parcels that were approved for employee housing near lionshead in 2012? Because the land is more valuable to be sold as millionaire's mansions or made into another village strip mall of Prada and Louis Vuitton? Shit, Vail didn't even know it owned the 5 bighorn acres in question until 2016 when CODOT realized it didn't own the land but in fact Vail did....

I don't know how critical it is overall. I do know that grazing animals need large ranges to survive and habitat fragmentation and loss contributes to their decline. Regardless, bighorn sheep in the gore range and colorado are probably screwed, their population decline of the last 20 years is almost as dismal as all the other challenges they face like habitat loss. So why even bother, right?

The decision to allow Vail to build on that land didn't seem final, the council changed its mind, I think that's within their rights but of course they'll pay a bunch of lawyers a bunch of money to argue it out and the courts will ultimately decide. So that's a win for your profession.

Edit to add: your source is snowbrains lol

[Danno]

I am not a wildlife biologist nor have I ever represented that I was. Nor have I made legal arguments. So GTFO with that bullshit, we're two dentists arguing shit on TGR. I do know, however, that significant environmental review was done about that parcel, and when Vail did discover it owned the property, it rezoned it so that 18 of the 23 acres would be preserved; that rezoning was approved (ie they don't do that unilaterally). Other projects in the very same habitat have been approved in the interim. Those projects did not undergo the same environmental review.

And the decision Vail received was final, AFAIK. It was rescinded by the subsequent council, so in that sense it wasn't final, but my understanding is that Vail Resorts did not need additional approvals.

So if it is PURELY a "save the bighorn" thing, why now? Why, conveniently, with an affordable housing project?

If you think this is really all about the bighorn sheep* I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.

* No doubt it is all about the sheep for some environmentalists who have no skin in the game, and would prefer that nothing be developed anywhere in their habitat, and surely would have been happy if those other projects weren't approved either, but that ship sailed a long time ago.

[brutah]

Also, I don't know how another Timber Ridge, the infamous employee housing project in the Vail valley, truly addresses the housing crisis there? Yes, it's housing for the employees in the area, but do community members occupy such housing that put down roots and make meaningful contributions? Does anyone raise a family in timber ridge? Will this employee housing project address that need or just provide another way for Vail to keep wages low by providing housing for H1B visas and other seasonal workers that are there to party and ski?

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[Danno]

Well, that's an entirely different issue, and I think might be part of why there is a lot of opposition to this project.

[altasnob]

And the decision Vail received was final, AFAIK. It was rescinded by the subsequent council, so in that sense it wasn't final, but my understanding is that Vail Resorts did not need additional approvals..

If Vail Resorts thinks they can prevail on a detrimental reliance claims, or an improper condemnation claim, they will sue. They haven't yet. Maybe they think they will lose. Maybe they don't want to sue Town of Vail for the bad PR it would create. Maybe they think the condemnation process will give them much more than the $12 million they turned down from the city. Bottom line, there is no reason to think Vail Resorts is getting screwed or being held hostage. They have legal avenues to pursue if that is true.

Just because Town of Vail approves one house in the area, does that mean they can't ever, for the rest of time, object to other projects? Also, wouldn't a complex housing 165 people (and their associated vehicles, trash, ect.) have a bigger negative effect on sheep habitat than a McMansion that sits empty most of the year?

I understand people getting upset if a place like Denver was trying to prevent an affordable housing complex. But who cares what Vail does? It's la la land there. Just be glad there aren't 165 more vehicles getting on I-70 at that on ramp.

[This End Up]

I think you must understand the tech I’m speaking of.

Thats is true. Im not savvy enough to pull this off, but somebody is.

Phones are cheap enough these days you could just share the phone.

[This End Up]

https://youtu.be/S46iJIk3t70

[summit]

^Wendover does good work.

There is really nothing new in that video for most of the people here. We know all of that. But they did a good job of presenting it for outsiders.

I did learn that Slifer Smith and Frampton is owned by Vail.

[MakersTeleMark]

I did learn that Slifer Smith and Frampton is owned by Vail.

It's not.

[goldenboy]

It's not.

Vail owns 50%

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[This End Up]

^Wendover does good work.

There is really nothing new in that video for most of the people here. We know all of that. But they did a good job of presenting it for outsiders.

I did learn that Slifer Smith and Frampton is owned by Vail.

Its nice to know the word is getting out there to the rest of the world.

[summit]

Its nice to know the word is getting out there to the rest of the world.

I've found Wendover great at taking a complex subject and explaining it in an entertaining, easy to understand way but without oversimplification.

Wait. Is that your project?

[MakersTeleMark]

Vail owns 50%

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Does VR control East West? Curious minds.

[summit]

Court rules that the Town of Vail can condemn Vail Resorts approved employee housing land in East Vail in order to "save the sheep." Town to pay $12mil for starters, hearing to determine valuation is above.

Court also comments that it can't be certain that the Town acted in bad faith, that it isn't going to consider the intricacies of the Town reversing itself, that is lame that the parties brought this to court at all, and that the Town overstepped and acted inappropriately in trying to force Vail to sell.

Rather long and good writeup for a Daily article.

https://www.vaildaily.com/news/judge...-in-east-vail/

[summit]

Court rules Town of Vail must pay VR 17.5M for the condemned land. The town originally offered 12M. Vail asked for 23M with a preference to just build employee housing instead. 17.5M is dead even between the numbers.

Town of Vail is paying 17.5M to keep the lot empty.
That is how much money the corporation was going to spend to build the housing on the lot!

Winner: Vail Resorts (kinda)
Loser: Everyone else

Now Vail town council has to approve the 17.5M payment to Vail Resorts. Vail Resorts again asks to be allowed to build employee housing there instead of taking payment for condemning the property.

Can Town of Vail swallow their pride for 17.5M, let VR build their own employee housing, and the town can take that 17.5M and build more affordable housing?

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah... small town politics.

[m2711c]

More like rich town politics…

[summit]

Town of Vail spends 27% of it's available funds in order to keep the hoi polloi away from the riches... ^h^h^h I mean... on an I70 adjacent sheep grazing preserve.

https://coloradosun.com/2023/10/04/v...bighorn-sheep/

[MakersTeleMark]

As much as I can’t stand giving those bastards in Broomfield one red cent, I’ll be voting in favor because I would rather do that than watch this herd starve to death,” Staufer said. “I want to preserve this herd for future generations and my daughter’s granddaughter.”

That is a direct quote from a Vail council member. Quite a way to operate a Town completely interconnected with VR. I just hope the County doesn't get swindled into pitching in for the TOV's complete incompetence.

[SkiBall]

That is a direct quote from a Vail council member. Quite a way to operate a Town completely interconnected with VR. I just hope the County doesn't get swindled into pitching in for the TOV's complete incompetence.

Don’t get your hopes up.

[MakersTeleMark]

Don’t get your hopes up.

It's like they are dying to give away $5mil. Unreal.

[Hott Butt Mud]

That is a direct quote from a Vail council member. Quite a way to operate a Town completely interconnected with VR. I just hope the County doesn't get swindled into pitching in for the TOV's complete incompetence.

That town is literally NOTHING without Vail Mountain and Vail Resorts. They are completely fucked up. Remember, they allowed the nutjob IT Director to steal tons of money and run the tech for not only Vail P.D. but Eagle County Sheriff and Eagle County 911 as well.

How much money does ToV make from resort tax, sales tax, parking garages and hotel tax?

[SkiBall]

It's like they are dying to give away $5mil. Unreal.

That’s the number I heard. Don’t know any conditions if any.

[MakersTeleMark]

That’s the number I heard. Don’t know any conditions if any.

Blank check as far as I read it:
https://www.vaildaily.com/news/eagle...t-vail-parcel/