WHERE IS BUSH?!

[Blurred]

Fucking looters are helping people SURVIVE.

There are airboaters down there who are being turned away by the police/guard. WTF, people need help now!

Government obviously can't fucking handle this. LET THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HELP YOU BUREAUCRATIC DICK WAVING DOUCHEBAGS!!!

And yes, sadly, if it was rich white people in jeopardy, i think there'd be more help.

Also, we can give food to Ethiopia and Somalia, but we need the fucking Red Cross to take care of our own??

[crashnburn'd]

My thoughts from earlier today... I guess I should have posted this in the ski/snowboard forum

I've been completely suprised by everyones reactions, the government, people, media, etc.

[char]

Yeah, I read that this morning in an anouncement from NIFC. I think the order for was 1000 2 man teams.

I think people need to realize that sending 20,000 fire personnel, National Guard, etc etc, isn't going to help anything if we can't feed and house them. They will just make it worse. I can't imagine the logistical nightmare this is.

[Jumper Bones]

Oh, mini-guns? Flyboy, you’ve watch too much Airwolf.

negatory. Helos mount door guns, typically miniguns but up to .50 cals, for self-defense for Combat-Search-and-Rescue (CSAR). A gunner stands in the door and operates it, WWII-style. they also are spotters for the pilots, helping observe stuff like threats outside, blade-tip clearances, etc.


although that brings in a whole host of issues - The active-duty US military using lethal force on US civilians, and not in defense of US installations? Last night, Air Force cops were sent in to chase looters away from Keesler AFB in Biloxi, but again, that's defense of an installation. I guess they could say it's in defense of their mission (air evac), but still. I imagine the green-light for that would have to come from the President, when they waive posse comitatus.

btw - are you sure of that, that it can be waived? yes troops were used in LA for the riots, but weren't they Nat'l Guard? They're different; since they're state-controlled assets, and operated by the state governor, they are immune to the restrictions of posse comitatus.

[Stu Gotz]

I think the driving principal of the Bush adminstration is to show the American people the Federal government is so wholly incompetent that it should be entitled to zero tax dollars. I would say they are succeeding mightily.



Edit: When we are in bed, it seems the ladies alway invoke posse comitatas on my nefarious plans.

[Jumper Bones]

oh btw I saw Bush's tan during the conference and though the same thing. It was like when Jon Stewart reacted to John Kerry's tan last year during the campaign...wtf?!?!?

[wicked_sick]

I'm with blurred. Let the people help the people till everyone else gets their shit in a heap.

Either way, Bush's holding a double barreled shit shotgun and it's pointed right at his head. and I think one of the barrells fired.

[char]

Char,

We do have a call out for 2 person teams to do door to door first aid/minor assistance, and we are sending quite a few out to do food unit, etc type jobs. Right now they are looking for logistics people more than ops people. I may go out as part of the type 3 team to help with logistic support.

Some useful info in the "They Said" section of www.wildlandfire.com about vaccinations if you are headed that way.

[char]

http://www.sploid.com/news/2005/09/0...son-123509.php

Lets not forget about ole' Pat Robertson.

[milton]

does this classifying as lootering?




here's a sobering blog from the 10th floor of some building in new orleans...

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

[Blurred]

and I think one of the barrells fired.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone who lost their loved one because of Bush not reacting appropriately is the one who takes his life. You just watch.

[NorCalSJK]

here's a sobering blog from the 10th floor of some building in new orleans...

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

That^^ is facking unreal. Great link.

[mr_gyptian]

The troops are in Iraq & Afganistan! Since the right wing doesn't believe in birth control,this is their version of it,"God's Will".

with extra bonus points for most of the dead being poor black people.

what are they supposed to do? how do you bring potable water to 50,000 people? how do you bring food for all these people when duck boats are your only transportation to most of them?

this isn't operation fucking dumbo drop. the situation actually got worse after the storm went through because of the rising water.

have you ever seen what happens when the LA canals flood? every time someone dies.

no entity could possibly plan for this, and trying to get a government organization to act on two days notice is a ridiculous assumption. Also, think back to Hurricane Charley when Bush declared four counties disaster areas early to get the ball rolling with relief funding and people. he was accused of doing it for political expediency.

[Blurred]

with extra bonus points for most of the dead being poor black people.

what are they supposed to do? how do you bring potable water to 50,000 people? how do you bring food for all these people when duck boats are your only transportation to most of them?

this isn't operation fucking dumbo drop. the situation actually got worse after the storm went through because of the rising water.

have you ever seen what happens when the LA canals flood? every time someone dies.

no entity could possibly plan for this, and trying to get a government organization to act on two days notice is a ridiculous assumption. Also, think back to Hurricane Charley when Bush declared four counties disaster areas early to get the ball rolling with relief funding and people. he was accused of doing it for political expediency.

You drop food and water on them, you pay the private sector to get it done being that our government is obviously incompetent. You allow the public to help.

This is a fucking debacle.

[mushmouth]

what private sector are you referring to?? and would you consider public sniper fire, rape and firing at evac choppers help?
mr_g has the only reasonable response i've seen in this bullshit opportunistic bash thread.

[Platinum Pete]

My girlfriend is a medic in the Army Reserves. Her unit is trained to deploy, operate, and defend Combat Support Hospitals (CaSH). Since they were supposed to be deployed to Iraq through Turkey (Turkey didn't allow it) they are fully up on all their training and qualifications. Further, they just did their 2 weeks a year, part of which was training for FEMA certification, which she and her folks passed.
She was disappointed to not get the call for tsunami relief. Right now she is looking forward to a weekend in the San Juan Islands sailing, biking, sea kayaking, and "spending time with me" in the yurt; but she said she'd much rather be helping out in New Orleans. For all the bullshit she puts up with as a soldier, she truly wants to help people - especially folks in our own country with such a dire need - and the phone isn't ringing.

[Blurred]

what private sector are you referring to??

Helicopter companies, rednecks with boats, campers, etc.
How about every fucking bus in America to get people out of there?
I'd go down there to help right now if I though the government cocks wouldn't turn me away from helping.

and would you consider public sniper fire, rape and firing at evac choppers help?

The sniping is isolated incidents. We're talking about hundreds of square miles.
People are shooting because they're being left behind and forgotten by their government. These are the people who didn't have the money to leave, don't have credit cards for hotels, etc.
Being left to die with my family on the roof of a house with no food or water.....not cool.

[Plakespear]

People are shooting because they're being left behind and forgotten by their government. These are the people who didn't have the money to leave, don't have credit cards for hotels, etc.
Being left to die with my family on the roof of a house with no food or water.....not cool.

Oh my god! Brett, are you starting to become a -[gasp!]- LIBERAL???

[Platinum Pete]

with extra bonus points for most of the dead being poor black people.

Mock that if you want, but millions of black folks in this country do not see this as mere coincidence

what are they supposed to do? how do you bring potable water to 50,000 people? how do you bring food for all these people when duck boats are your only transportation to most of them?

This is the government's responsibility, their top tier jobs are keeping people safe and keeping the economy running strong. Total failure.

this isn't operation fucking dumbo drop. the situation actually got worse after the storm went through because of the rising water.

They didn't see that coming?

have you ever seen what happens when the LA canals flood? every time someone dies.

That usually a homeless camp or a few individuals, not two states and some major cities. Let's keep this in perspective.

no entity could possibly plan for this, and trying to get a government organization to act on two days notice is a ridiculous assumption. Also, think back to Hurricane Charley when Bush declared four counties disaster areas early to get the ball rolling with relief funding and people. he was accused of doing it for political expediency.

Again, it is the governments job to plan for this and act fast when that plan fails. As far as the hurricane Charlie bit, are you suggesting Bush is dragging his feet for political reasons instead of raw incompetency? Sounds plausible, and totally fucked up at the same time.

Take your talking points memo elsewhere. Everyone whose job it is to not have this be so fucked up needs to take action and be held accountable. Fuck the weasel words and posturing; this is real peoples lives, poperty, history, and it effects all of us.

[schuss]

not to mention they've known about this possibility for a loooonnnggggg time, so there should be and likely are disaster plans for getting this stuff dealt with. It takes probably 28 hours or so to get to LA from New Hampshire, so its not like location should be an inhibitor, as you have a large amount of the country within a day or two of the accident. Get that shit in there. Get stations setup at the perimeters of the damage and work in. Between the army, volunteers, firemen etc. etc. you should be able to close the net quickly and efficiently.

[WhiteHunter]

what are they supposed to do? how do you bring potable water to 50,000 people? how do you bring food for all these people when duck boats are your only transportation to most of them?

this isn't operation fucking dumbo drop. the situation actually got worse after the storm went through because of the rising water.

have you ever seen what happens when the LA canals flood? every time someone dies.

no entity could possibly plan for this, and trying to get a government organization to act on two days notice is a ridiculous assumption. Also, think back to Hurricane Charley when Bush declared four counties disaster areas early to get the ball rolling with relief funding and people. he was accused of doing it for political expediency.

The local state and federal governments have known for years that this might happen if a major hurricane were to hit New Orleans. They knew when Katrina was approaching Florida that it was likely to gain strength and veer north towards N.O. and the Gulf States. So why was the military not getting ready to go earlier? There is no reason why the troops that started arriving Weds could not have been arriving Tues morning.

As far as suppies of water and MREs, they should have been ready to start bringing them in from day one not three days later. Minimum amounts of supplies would be saving lives. To date there has been virtually no supplies delivered.

They knew that the levies were only built to withstand a category 3 hurricane and some of them were in critical need of repair. Yet when a category 4 was on its way they waited to assess the damage before mobilizing our miitary resources. They were unprepared. Could they be expected to save everybody? Of course not. Should people be dying in the streets three days later due to a lack of water or an organized evacuation plan? NO!!

Bush is not completely to blame. There's obviously has been a lack of planning and organization on the state and local level as well. AND THEY KNEW THIS COULD HAPPEN! Its just an indefensible lack of leadership from the local level all the way up to the President.

[DJSapp]

Umm, yeah, anything is possible with enough cash.

Hi, Union Pacific? I need 20 trains loaded with 150 box cars each to evac 1,000,000 people from LA and dropped off across the midwest.

Alhambra water? I need all of your trucks to the midwest evac citys now. I'll pay $25 a gallon. Just fucking get there.

Greyhound? I need everything you have to the Superdome, now.

How's about letting corporate america work for us?

[365wp]

no entity could possibly plan for this, and trying to get a government organization to act on two days notice is a ridiculous assumption.

FEMA predicted it in 2001.

Then the federal government cut funding for the corps.

[Blurred]

Umm, yeah, anything is possible with enough cash.

Hi, Union Pacific? I need 20 trains loaded with 150 box cars each to evac 1,000,000 people from LA and dropped off across the midwest.

Alhambra water? I need all of your trucks to the midwest evac citys now. I'll pay $25 a gallon. Just fucking get there.

Greyhound? I need everything you have to the Superdome, now.

How's about letting corporate america work for us?

ding ding ding!!!

[truth]

Got this from a colleague.

A real-time picture of what's happening in New Orleans.



Bob

No news of Neil, Brandt or Arthur. However, This e-mail from a New Orleans
pathologist colleague of my daughter paints a grim picture.:

Aug. 31, 2005

Thanks to all of you who have sent your notes of concern and your prayers. I
am writing this note on Tuesday at 2 p.m.. I wanted to update all of you as
to the situation here. I don't know how much information you are getting but
I am certain it is more than we are getting. Be advised that almost
everything I am telling you is from direct observation or rumor from
reasonable sources. They are allowing limited internet access, so I hope to
send this dispatch today.

Personally, my family and I are fine. My family is safe in Jackson, Miss.,
and I am now a temporary resident of the Ritz Carleton Hotel in New Orleans.
I figured if it was my time to go, I wanted to go in a place with a good
wine list. In addition, this hotel is in a very old building on Canal Street
that could and did sustain little damage. Many of the other hotels sustained
significant loss of windows, and we expect that many of the guests may be
evacuated here.

Things were obviously bad yesterday, but they are much worse today.
Overnight the water arrived. Now Canal Street (true to its origins) is
indeed a canal. The first floor of all downtown buildings is underwater. I
have heard that Charity Hospital and Tulane are limited in their ability to
care for patients because of water. Ochsner is the only hospital that
remains fully functional. However, I spoke with them today and they too are
on generator and losing food and water fast.

The city now has no clean water, no sewerage system, no electricity, and no
real communications. Bodies are still being recovered floating in the
floods. We are worried about a cholera epidemic. Even the police are without
effective communications. We have a group of armed police here with us at
the hotel that is admirably trying to exert some local law enforcement. This
is tough because looting is now rampant. Most of it is not malicious
looting. These are poor and desperate people with no housing and no medical
care and no food or water trying to take care of themselves and their
families. Unfortunately, the people are armed and dangerous. We hear
gunshots frequently. Most of Canal street is occupied by armed looters who
have a low threshold for discharging their weapons. We hear gunshots
frequently. The looters are using makeshift boats made of pieces of
styrofoam to access. We are still waiting for a significant national guard
presence.

The health care situation here has dramatically worsened overnight. Many
people in the hotel are elderly and small children. Many other guests have
unusual diseases. ... There are (Infectious Disease) physicians in at this
hotel attending an HIV confection. We have commandeered the world famous
French Quarter Bar to turn into a makeshift clinic. There is a team of about
seven doctors and PAs and pharmacists. We anticipate that this will be the
major medical facility in the central business district and French Quarter.

Our biggest adventure today was raiding the Walgreen's on Canal under police
escort. The pharmacy was dark and full of water. We basically scooped the
entire drug sets into garbage bags and removed them. All under police
escort. The looters had to be held back at gunpoint. After a dose of
prophylactic Cipro I hope to be fine.

In all we are faring well. We have set up a hospital in the the French
Quarter bar in the hotel, and will start admitting patients today. Many will
be from the hotel, but many will not. We are anticipating dealing with
multiple medical problems, medications and and acute injuries. Infection and
perhaps even cholera are anticipated major problems. Food and water
shortages are imminent.

The biggest question to all of us is where is the National Guard? We hear
jet fighters and helicopters, but no real armed presence, and hence the
rampant looting. There is no Red Cross and no Salvation Army.

In a sort of clichi way, this is an edifying experience. One is rapidly
focused away from the transient and material to the bare necessities of
life. It has been challenging to me to learn how to be a primary care
physician. We are under martial law so return to our homes is impossible. I
don't know how long it will be and this is my greatest fear. Despite it all,
this is a soul-edifying experience. The greatest pain is to think about the
loss. And how long the rebuild will take. And the horror of so many dead
people .

PLEASE SEND THIS DISPATCH TO ALL YOU THING MAY BE INTERESTED IN A DISPATCH
from the front. I will send more according to your interest. Hopefully their
collective prayers will be answered. By the way, suture packs, sterile
gloves and stethoscopes will be needed as the Ritz turns into a MASH



Steve