The TGR Skinny Ski Ski Tourers' Refuge Thread

[dub_xion]

Interesting, thanks for all the input. I had actually stuck my foot in a 28 last year in a shop and felt like I could go smaller, but they didn’t have a 27. I guess I could REI their 27 and see. No 28s left.

What I really need to do is cool my jets and wait at least to see what Lee has to say about the Zero G Peak. 99 last, but officially punchable.

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[jpcm]

I just ordered a pair of the 181 wayback 88 with the precut pomaco skins from alpine store for $560 shipped. They have the 174 as well. Shipping FedEx from France, will see how long it takes.

https://www.alpinstore.com/en/540677...skins-men.html

These showed up in 6 days. France to CO.

Flex test has me pretty stoked, and I think this ski is going to fill a nice spot in the quiver. It’s overall a little softer than the 185 zero g95 I ordered and returned. Has a touch more rocker in the tip, but still firm flex under foot. While the zero G would have been very good in technical spots, my impressions were that it wasn’t going to be a fun ski for me at all. Rigid plank with tons of camber. The Wayback just feels like it will ski well. It’s stupid light compared to my other skis.

The pre cut skins are quality. It’s a Pomaco rebrand 70/30. The fibers are a little longer than my free pro 2, and maybe a little heavier. They will be nice on the skinny ski in slippery spots where the free pro struggles. Tip and tail attachment is simple and seems bomber, way better than the standard Pomaco tails.

Will be mounting with a Atk crest.

[dub_xion]

These showed up in 6 days. France to CO.

Flex test has me pretty stoked, and I think this ski is going to fill a nice spot in the quiver. It’s overall a little softer than the 185 zero g95 I ordered and returned. Has a touch more rocker in the tip, but still firm flex under foot. While the zero G would have been very good in technical spots, my impressions were that it wasn’t going to be a fun ski for me at all. Rigid plank with tons of camber. The Wayback just feels like it will ski well. It’s stupid light compared to my other skis.

The pre cut skins are quality. It’s a Pomaco rebrand 70/30. The fibers are a little longer than my free pro 2, and maybe a little heavier. They will be nice on the skinny ski in slippery spots where the free pro struggles. Tip and tail attachment is simple and seems bomber, way better than the standard Pomaco tails.

Will be mounting with a Atk crest.

Nice setup! Let us know how it goes. What boots?


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[CirqueScaler]

Small updated quiver post because I think I've pretty much settled my setup. I'm 5'8", 150 lbs, live in Utah, int/adv skier but self-taught.

I'll start! Quiver pic for 2021-2022:

Attachment 390765

Previously, I had Ski Trab Maximo skis with Vario.2 bindings as a "daily driver" ski. I broke my quiver down mentally into:
[1] Race - Aski Stealth
[2] Spring skinny - TBD
[3] "Daily driver" - Maximo
[4] Powder - Hypercharger

A "daily driver" ski doesn't really make much sense. I had thought it would be something like "what I grab by default", but it doesn't actually take that much effort to pick a ski on any particular day, AND I have found that the season separates into mini-epochs where the conditions and typical tour call for a specific ski everyday (usually, whether or not there is a PWL. Therefore, my quiver is now:

[1] Race - Aski Stealth w/ Gara titans
[2] Steep snow - Movement Alp Tracks 89 w/ Vario 1
[3] Low-angle snow - Voiler Hypercharger w/ Gara titan



Some findings and reviews:

[1] Aski Stealth - this lives up to the hype. This ski is damp as a mfker. It's still a race ski, but the stability and smoothness it offers is pretty unparalleled. On hard snow, it bombs and is a ton of fun to ski, very smooth. In fresh snow, it's obviously harder to ski, but it's still fun, and you can have pretty decent confidence it'll stay on-line, certainly more than any other race ski I bet (especially vs uber-cambered skis).

[2] Alp Tracks 89 171 - some of you may remember I bought an old AT 89 used and really liked it. I blew it up after five days (it was on its fourth toe mount) and liked it enough to buy retail (although fortunately 25% off from Skimoco). This is the dampest ski I've used. I've skied it in steep, chalky snow, powder, and corn, and it's performed really well for all of those. That's why I feel comfortable calling this my "steep snow" ski - I'm comfortable skiing it in spring conditions and in winter conditions. The only place it doesn't perform well is in low angle powder, hence the quiver separation.

I did not like the Ski Trab Maximo. I found the shape very hard to ski - I thought the tail really locked me into long radius turns which was challenging. Probably fun on volcanos and big powder fields, but in anything tight I found it really, really hard to ski. Definitely damp, and well-constructed, but not for me. Because all Trab skis have the same shape, this rules out all Trab skis for me, which is kind of a shame.

I liked the Dynafit Blacklight 88 (for sale btw), but it wasn't as damp or light as the Alp Tracks 89, so I'm not going to ski it. Compared to the AT 89, the Blacklight felt more "solid", like it could plow through things, but it didn't feel as damp. Also, for some reason, I felt like the inside of the ski caught pretty frequently, which stopped turns and threw me off balance. No idea why that happened, I think it is because of the shovel shape, which is widens then tapers aggressively, compared with the more subtle nose of the AT89? I had detuned the area that was catching. Overall, really nice ski, but the AT 89 was better.

Finally, I switched from Trab Vario.2 to Vario 1s. The Vario 2 just weren't worth the weight. I didn't find any downhill performance improvement from the elastic vario 2 heel, so all you have for 150g + lots of stuff that can break in the field is "reliable release," which i'm pretty skeptical of in tech bindings anyways. I talked to the Skimo guys before chucking the Vario 2s. Bunce said he felt the same way - no downhill elasticity detectable - and uses gara titans and vario 1s. Jbo said online that it probably has to do with ski stiffness and weight, presumably if you are heavier and using a softer ski, you'll get more ride elasticity instead of only getting elasticity in very high-pressure situations such as a release. That makes sense to me. Again, I am 150 lbs and was skiing a Trab Maximo (wood, not aramid, core).

In this category, I also tried the Cirque 78, Zero G 95, and non-UL Backland 78. I considered the Race Pro 77, but ultimately was told it's a race ski at heart, which is not what I wanted. I'd be interested in trying the Volkl 88 or the Ripstick Tour 88, although I suspect only the Volkl 88 has a chance of being better (and it's 200g heavier). Those 200g do matter to me - I've been on a few long days where I'm the slowest one in the group, and in those dark times I was seeking every small efficiency to stay afloat.

[3] Voile Hypercharger 171 - I use this for deep soft snow and low-angle terrain. I really consider having a fun, wide ski to be a safety imperative. Here in UT, when there's a PWL, I desperately need a ski that I can have fun on in low angle terrain. If I only had my AT89 and couldn't dinkily surf my way down a 26* glade, I would push into steeper terrain, frustrated that I was sinking and desperate for more speed. And that could lead to bad decision-making.

The Hypercharger is a really fun ski. Capable of short wiggles, especially at +1, but also stout enough to make big arcing turns, even at +1. I'm not FWT, but I think I ski on the aggressive, fast side when I get a chance to open it up - the Hypercharger doesn't hold me back. I take this out for <30* and on days when there are big, steep powder fields to be skied safely.

I switched the bindings from Trofeos to Gara titans for two reasons: I think the gara titans are more elastic, certainly in the toe, and in the heel too imo. But on a powder/soft snow, ski, that wasn't really a concern. Instead, (1) I wanted to be able to skin with the toe unlocked, for occasions when I would be skinning in exposed avalanche terrain. Who knows if that will ever actually help, but it might, so I want to have the margin. (2), I didn't like the green and silver of the Trofeo on the Hypercharger. It just looked really bad, imo.

As you can see, I've spent a lot of time - probably too much - thinking about my ski gear. I've been fortunate enough to be able to buy and sell used gear in order to test out all kinds of different lightweight touring skis. That was fun, but a bit tedious and mentally tiring. Now, I think I'm finally set on what I want to ski and thankful for that. Thought I'd write this post to record my thoughts and learnings for you and for me.

[John_B]

I'm not super focused on having the newest/lightest stuff possible or having a huge quiver. I've skied a set of old Wailer 99s in the Pure 2 with Speed Radicals for the past 5 years. I just got a set of Lotus 124s in Tour1 w/ Dynafit Superlites and holy shit I'm never going to not have a super fat light ski in the quiver. Even skiing 6 inches on top of a firm crust they are so much fun!

[John_B]

.....

[alive]

Have been switching around and consolidating the touring quiver this year. Sold the racing skis and blizzard 0G 85s and Navis freebirds. And settled on this.


Skiing both with F1’s as nothing fits better.

Only one big day out on the back light pro, but already pleasantly surprised by the ski. Obviously a dream on the way up, and thought there would be a bit of a trade-off on the down compared to the 0G 85, but that was not the case. Mixed conditions of wind blown, 8 inches of cold, light powder and a long ski out through the resort on cut up groomer. Super smooth and predictable in the steeps, enough in the tips to make the powder fun and way more stable and predictable while trying to find the speed limit on the chopped up groomers. Instantly fell in love with these skis and have a lot of things planned for it. Big rave for the super light 150 as well. Enjoyed the Helio 145s, but these just feel a lot more solid and plenty of riser heights.
Really love the pin skin. Had the standard issue of getting the pin to drop out while transitioning, especially first lap with clean dry skins. That little bit of snow creep around the pin actually helped it drop out quicker and going to try a few modifications to make this system work a little smoother.
Not quite racing weight but I’m totally fine with that as they will work for the occasional race I may try. The ideal tool for big, spring missions though.

[Boissal]

holy shit I'm never going to not have a super fat light ski in the quiver

This is the way

[John_B]

^I'm not sure about the double negative but I stand by my sentiment.

[CirqueScaler]

thought there would be a bit of a trade-off on the down compared to the 0G 85, but that was not the case. Mixed conditions of wind blown, 8 inches of cold, light powder and a long ski out through the resort on cut up groomer. Super smooth and predictable in the steeps, enough in the tips to make the powder fun and way more stable and predictable while trying to find the speed limit on the chopped up groomers. Instantly fell in love with these skis and have a lot of things planned for it.

Really interesting, can you give more of a comparison between the 0g 85 and the Blacklight Pro? Did you ski the last-gen 0g or the current gen?

Also, folks, I am casually thinking of finding a heavier ski for slower days. Would still be with F1 LTs because I don't want to buy another boot, thinking of mounting an ATK race binding with a freeride spacer. Needs to smash chopped up powder and charge, but it's also very likely to be used in tight trees. I'm thinking 4FRNT Raven or BMT 106 in the 177-179 lengths. Thoughts or other recs?

[ctsmith]

My heavy ski is a 181 Hyper V8 (with Alien RS / ATK Race). Great in deep soft snow, and less than perfect soft snow, but may not be an ideal combo for chopped up resort snow.

[Climbers Right]

Really interesting, can you give more of a comparison between the 0g 85 and the Blacklight Pro? Did you ski the last-gen 0g or the current gen?

Also, folks, I am casually thinking of finding a heavier ski for slower days. Would still be with F1 LTs because I don't want to buy another boot, thinking of mounting an ATK race binding with a freeride spacer. Needs to smash chopped up powder and charge, but it's also very likely to be used in tight trees. I'm thinking 4FRNT Raven or BMT 106 in the 177-179 lengths. Thoughts or other recs?

Depending on how much weight you'll drag up/your preferred ski style I'd check out the blaze 106 or the vision 108. Both are way more stable than they should be. There's a pair of 179 blaze in SLC for 300. The flat camber on those is really nice for nasty snow imo

[riff]

Ok, scored some La Sportiva Skorpius and I’m totally psyched. Oddly, I seem to have my best luck with buying a boot, trying it on, returning it, waiting two years and buying it again and then skiing it every day until it dies.
Anyway, the stock liners feel like they will last about two weeks. I’d like to score a suitable Intuition, either Pro Tour LV or Tour Wrap. Any thoughts from those who have knowledge? I’d like warm toes(taking these to AK this April) and good heel hold. Which one should I get, and same size? (26 for 26?)


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[Benneke10]

Everyone shits on the Skorpius liner, I have like 50+ days in mine and its fine. Could definitely be better, at some point I will upgrade, but it is light and it doesn't get much worse than it already is out of the box

[tgapp]

Everyone shits on the Skorpius liner, I have like 50+ days in mine and its fine. Could definitely be better, at some point I will upgrade, but it is light and it doesn't get much worse than it already is out of the box

yep this is true.

it's a shit liner but it also hasn't fallen apart on me. I'm also probably around 50 days on mine. I think a full blown intuition would be too much for this boot, so I'm likely to replace it with another Palau offering when it finally comes time.

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[alive]

Really interesting, can you give more of a comparison between the 0g 85 and the Blacklight Pro? Did you ski the last-gen 0g or the current gen?

Just one day on them and will try to get back to this after a few more days. The Blizzards were the first generation. A good ski and no major complaints. Dependable, predictable, but just missing a bit life, fun with that ski. Can't explain with the limited ride time, but just really enjoyed the backlights a whole lot more that one day.

[riff]

Good news gents, thanks! I just didn’t get an inspiring feel from it, fit seems fine. I’ll go for it and see how long it lasts!


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[Backward_Banana]

I have a MV pro tour in my Skorpius. Much better heel hold, works great with the boot. No complaints.

[kevino]

My wife skis the skorpius with MV pro tour. Helped her get improved fit and no problems for 1.5 seasons

[fleaches]

Does anyone have any opinions on the new zero g 80 LT? Skimo already has some so maybe somebody has gotten out on one...

Looking for something that's light enough for casual racing but can actually be used in real life for ski mountaineering situations. Other recs?

Thanks!

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[Benneke10]

Does anyone have any opinions on the new zero g 80 LT? Skimo already has some so maybe somebody has gotten out on one...

Looking for something that's light enough for casual racing but can actually be used in real life for ski mountaineering situations. Other recs?

Thanks!

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Ski Trab Maestro.2 is worth a look. They have by far the best construction of any of the light skis, most damp/stable and durable. I found their tails very hard to release but I am a new skier with limited skills. I have heard great things about the Dynafit Blacklight Pro as well. The pin-skin system seems neat and a good way to save some grams. I tried the Blacklight 88 and was impressed by its ride quality, great for the class (but not Trab level), very easy to ski

[sheel44]

Ski Trab Maestro.2 is worth a look. They have by far the best construction of any of the light skis, most damp/stable and durable. I found their tails very hard to release but I am a new skier with limited skills. I have heard great things about the Dynafit Blacklight Pro as well. The pin-skin system seems neat and a good way to save some grams. I tried the Blacklight 88 and was impressed by its ride quality, great for the class (but not Trab level), very easy to ski

+1 blacklights, I own the 95 and demo'd the pro got along really well with them. I demo'd the trabs too and agree about the tails. Theyre fun in good conditions where you can let them rip, but if you're skiing weird snow or really tight trees I don't like them as much (unfortunately I do too much of both to buy trabs). Curious if new zero g 80 is like the zero g 95, thought that one may be too stiff for me.

[CirqueScaler]

Does anyone have any opinions on the new zero g 80 LT? Skimo already has some so maybe somebody has gotten out on one...

Looking for something that's light enough for casual racing but can actually be used in real life for ski mountaineering situations. Other recs?

Thanks!

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Any <1.2 kg ski will be totally fine for casual racing. I'd err more towards the real life ski mountaineering when picking the ski. If you pick your ski based on weight, you'll soon realize that fitness matters way more when racing. I sure have...

I really like the Movement Alp Tracks 89. The 85 is a different shape that I think is more hard snow oriented; the 89 is more soft snow oriented. I bet there's a shape that could be better in chalk and pre-corn, but I preferred to opt for the 89 if that makes sense.

The Backland 78 UL and 85 UL are also probably great skis. I almost got the 78 UL before I tried the Alp Tracks 89 and really liked it.

Don't really get the point of the Zero G 80 LT based on the skimoco website... wish they could put a fine point on what the difference between it and the 85 is. Just 100g for 5mm?

[thecazdog]

+1 for Backland UL 85 and Alp Trx as options.

I had ZG85s, and they have totally de-cambered and that wasn't with a crazy amount of use. I know things are probably different with the new construction, but no one is under an illusion that the ZG108/105 is the pick of that litter.

Backlands are a fantastic all round ski. I also have Alp Trx 100s, which are pretty fun too.

[Climbers Right]

Don't really get the point of the Zero G 80 LT based on the skimoco website... wish they could put a fine point on what the difference between it and the 85 is. Just 100g for 5mm?

The 80 seemed to have less rocker and more camber than the 85 from my quick look. Probably a little better for a groomer zoomer, a little worse for wild snow that isn't perfect corn.

I think it's mostly to claim a sub 1000g ski in something longer than 150cm. It's a benchmark these days for product teams.