Wildfire 2021

[MagnificentUnicorn]

It’s complicated, but there really is no substantial debate (among people who really know wildland fire) that shots accomplish the majority of the most important and most difficult work building fireline on project fires.

If we’re low on hotshots…I dunno…fucking good luck just letting everything rip to the next road downwind and catch 1000 spots (with no shots…who would normally be the best resource to hold a road bump)…

I dunno…I’d like to hear it from the inside. I don’t trust the media about wildland fire. I don’t trust them to understand hotshots, I don’t trust them to not insert agendas into individuals’ stories…I don’t trust them to understand the specifics of strategy and tactics that underpin any specific firefight or the overall setup of a given season or area command… none of it.

I get that shot crews are the best for IA, I have many friends active and veteran crew members, but if they were so successful why are the large fires burning out of control? It’s a rhetorical question, I know the answer. There’s only so much hand crews can accomplish with these mega fires. That news story is to stoke fear among the general population.


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[ill-advised strategy]

I think of hotshots as the best for large fire extended attack.

I think the best IA resource for timber is rappellers; for grass: a good engine crew with a type 4 engine.

For all that California-style tall thick brush and WUI, I really don’t know…maybe shots for that, and aircraft for sure…. But that wasn’t my world so I probably shouldn’t guess at it.

Point being I mainly think of hotshots as an extended attack resource, like the crews you can use on the hotter, steeper parts of a big ongoing project fire…. where less-organized, self-sufficient, or physically-fit crews might be overmatched by the intensity of the terrain and/or fire behavior.

[Meadow Skipper]

…Point being I mainly think of hotshots as an extended attack resource, like the crews you can use on the hotter, steeper parts of a big ongoing project fire…. where less-organized, self-sufficient, or physically-fit crews might be overmatched by the intensity of the terrain and/or fire behavior.

Exactly. Got a crucial, remote, gnarly, dense, shitty piece that’s steeper than a cow’s face where you need some quality line placed? Shots.

[babybear]

test

[Meadow Skipper]

^ We’re good. Danno earned his pay by fixin’ it.

[KQ]

[Meadow Skipper]

Uh oh.


The Lava fire near Mt. Shasta blew up this afternoon. This is the view from Yreka.

[summit]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/bid...rs-2021-06-30/

Biden recently called that a "ridiculously low salary." He plans to announce that no federal firefighter will make less than $15 an hour, the official said.

"As the President said last week, it's ridiculous that federal firefighters are paid $13 an hour, and we are going to change that," a senior administration officials said. "Firefighters must be fairly paid for the grueling and risky work that they are willing to take on."

The White House will also announce they will seek to convert seasonal firefighting jobs to full-time as the demands have increased, and pay retention bonuses. More specific details, such as timing and where the money is coming from, will be announced Wednesday.

[old_newguy]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/bid...rs-2021-06-30/

$15 is ridiculous unless they are bumping all of the higher grades, offering year round work, better work:life balance, portal to portal pay, etc.

All you have to do to accomplish this is hire people as a GS 4 step 1 at $15.10/hr which is ridiculously easy to qualify for.

They apparently are still clueless that they are losing highly experienced firefighters to municipalities, states and utilities because the pay for experienced people is 2-3x what the FS is paying and comes with way, way better work life balance. So unless they make big changes in the overall pay structure and benefits package you will continue to see federal WFF leaving.

[TBS]

City of Bend has put an end to fireworks sales this year due to the heat and dry conditions.
Local fireworks vendors say the ruling is Anti-American https://ktvz.com/news/bend/2021/06/2...-of-emergency/

The annual Burning of the Butte will go on however

[summit]

I FUCKING LOVE FIREWORKS AND FREEDOM!

The freedom to not have my neighborhood burnt down is somewhat more important than my freedom to shoot fireworks during bad fire danger.

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
Local fireworks vendors say the ruling is Anti-American

[bodywhomper]

Sierra county just banned all outdoor fire on private property except for those in propane bbqs. This includes the use propane camping stoves.

In Taylor, OR, there is currently a large tent in a parking lot to sell fireworks as part of a high school fundraiser. The properties on 3 sides of the parking lot burned last year in the Almeda fire. 80% of the high school students lost their homes in the fire.

[el hefe]

Bunch of new ones in Southern bc. Shit. Was hoping for clear skies.

[old_newguy]

“ That is why today we are announcing that we are fulfilling the President’s commitment that firefighters will not make less than $15 an hour this year. In addition, permanent firefighters working on the front lines paid at up to a GS-9 level will receive up to a 10 percent retention incentive and temporary workers who commit to continue this season would receive a $1000 Spot/Star Award this year. These are short-term solutions to support our Federal wildland firefighters, especially due to the multiple impacts of COVID and climate change this year. The Administration will work with Congress on longer-term much needed compensation, benefit, and work-life balance reforms for Federal wildland firefighters.”

[east or bust]

Honestly raising it to $15/hr from $13/hr is more of a slap in the face than anything. Might as well have just left it be.

The average day laborer pay in the US is nearly $16/hr and it goes without saying that the two jobs are unequivocally dissimilar when it comes to the hazards involved.

Fuck, I’d think a minimum bump of at least $10/hr would be warranted for the hazard pay alone.


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[Benneke10]

You can't really expect a much bigger pay bump without Congress. Keep in mind firefighters are making hazard pay and overtime (much deserved) so their earnings are pretty solid when fires are burning.

[Meadow Skipper]

Uh oh. This is bad. Really bad.

Probably paywalled, but the headline tells the story.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/californ...e-16283086.php

Lava Fire crews had left before the blaze exploded. Now an official apologizes

[summit]

“ That is why today we are announcing that we are fulfilling the President’s commitment that firefighters will not make less than $15 an hour this year. In addition, permanent firefighters working on the front lines paid at up to a GS-9 level will receive up to a 10 percent retention incentive and temporary workers who commit to continue this season would receive a $1000 Spot/Star Award this year. These are short-term solutions to support our Federal wildland firefighters, especially due to the multiple impacts of COVID and climate change this year. The Administration will work with Congress on longer-term much needed compensation, benefit, and work-life balance reforms for Federal wildland firefighters.”

GS-9 is the top tier... 22-29/hr... I mean with OT, 25% hazard pay differential, and Fed bennies that is starting to be OK but how many are GS-9?

Lot more than I ever made as an ambulance EMT

[old_newguy]

GS-9 is the top tier... 22-29/hr... I mean with OT, 25% hazard pay differential, and Fed bennies that is starting to be OK but how many are GS-9?

Lot more than I ever made as an ambulance EMT

OT and hazard pay don’t pay the bills in the off season and isn’t a reliable or financially stable way to live for people with families.

IHC superintendents are commonly GS9s. Someone else can chime in here but to be a IHC supt. you are typically looking at ICT3/DIVS level qualification (technically can be hired with lower qualifications) which means they could potentially be either running an emerging incident or running a division of a fire which would mean supervising multiple task forces or strike teams of crew/engines/equipment. That level of experience takes at least 10 years to acquire and typically more like 15+ to be good at it, IME.

Oh, and they also run an elite 20 person handcrew which typically would have lower level employees like GS4/5/6 who would be filling the crew EMT/medic role who get assigned to the most complex and dangerous situations.

Realistically, you can rationalize their wage however you want and we can debate their quals and experience. At the end of the day they are leaving for greener pastures for more money, better work/life balance and better benefits and the USFS has admitted that they have a serious retention problem on their hands that and they need money to remedy it.

Another way of looking at this would be to ask anyone working for CALFire or a state/local fire dept. if they would apply for and accept a position with the USFS. The answer is likely “no”.

[Meadow Skipper]

Federal firefighters to receive retention pay this year
https://wildfiretoday.com/2021/06/30...pay-this-year/

[TBS]

Uh oh. This is bad. Really bad.

Probably paywalled, but the headline tells the story.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/californ...e-16283086.php

Here’s another piece from LA Times that isn’t paywalled.
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ee-their-homes

I couldn’t read the chronicle piece but it sounds like the fire flared after managers released some resources. I assume this happens once in a great while thru no malfeasance or incompetence?

And matters are complicated by a group in the evac zone that run a bunch of illegal cannabis greenhouses.

Cops tried to keep one grower out, so he shot at the cops - it didn’t end well
https://www.sacbee.com/news/californ...252444173.html

[Meadow Skipper]

Here’s another piece from LA Times that isn’t paywalled.
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ee-their-homes

I couldn’t read the chronicle piece but it sounds like the fire flared after managers released some resources. I assume this happens once in a great while thru no malfeasance or incompetence?

It’s just bad form, really bad form not to have a fire fully secured before everyone leaves. I’m totally embarrassed for them.

[snapt]

Here’s another piece from LA Times that isn’t paywalled.
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ee-their-homes

I couldn’t read the chronicle piece but it sounds like the fire flared after managers released some resources. I assume this happens once in a great while thru no malfeasance or incompetence?

And matters are complicated by a group in the evac zone that run a bunch of illegal cannabis greenhouses.

Cops tried to keep one grower out, so he shot at the cops - it didn’t end well
https://www.sacbee.com/news/californ...252444173.html

I've been a cooperator IA on BLM fires where we've arrived and the IC will give dispatch their size up only to have to rename the fire shortly thereafter back to whatever start it was previously that flared back up. Always embarrassing for the IC. "Dispatch this will actually be the Cortez Fire we released all resources from last week that going again."

[old_newguy]

It’s just bad form, really bad form not to have a fire fully secured before everyone leaves. I’m totally embarrassed for them.

IA heli crew I was on had a decades long streak of no reburns. It just wasn’t tolerated where I worked and we stayed on fires until they were out or we were relieved.

It’s like IC 101 stuff. Especially on something you just IA’d.

Someone is having a really bad day on that one.