Tannus Vs Cushcore tire inserts

**VTskibum** · 10-01-2021, 08:42 AM

Bravo, great work. Coming soon pick your insert type and be a dick about it w data to back that up.

Still waiting on my tubolight XC insert, though no way I’m motivated enough to replicate this testing. Also don’t have a PM on my mtb anymore anyway. Rollers is a pretty good way to do it though

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**climberevan** · 10-01-2021, 09:00 AM

I like it. Maybe you can glue some shit to the rollers to simulate rougher ground... I look forward to the calculations.

I've never felt the need for inserts on the MTB but am insert-curious for the gravel bike. My downhill speed is quite limited by fear of rim destruction, so allaying that would be nice, and the gravel inserts are pretty light.

**toast2266** · 10-01-2021, 10:29 AM

Interesting results for sure. Rollers probably offer the best chance of repeatable, error free data.

I'd speculate that the results are largely due to the volume reduction in the tire, so a larger insert would essentially replicate higher tire pressure. But higher tire pressure would potentially be less efficient over rough ground, so I wonder if the results would hold on a rooty climb. But certainly harder to produce accurate results in that scenario.

**Andeh** · 10-04-2021, 03:17 PM

Goddamnit, I know I'm going to hate myself for this, but I just ordered a TT to try again in rear for my trip to sharp rocks next week. Last time I tried it, I had a wobble, so of course I pulled the insert and found out it was the tire casing. At that point I was so fed up I left the insert out and chucked the tire, and "donated" the insert to an unsuspecting friend. I have a DH casing I was planning on running, but I know that won't really protect the rim unless I run pretty high pressures. I'm hoping I can run TT + a DD Dissector at normal pressures and not flat / break things.

I did look at the "new" TT install video, and it looks like the big difference they list now that they don't have on the paperwork from when I tried last time is to soap the sides of the insert and the bead of the tire. I've found that using a little bit of Slick Honey makes seating DD and DH beads much easier, so I can see how that makes sense. I'll probably try one suggestion I read of fully seating the tire first, then popping 1 bead and installing the insert. That way you've got more space in the center channel for the insert and remaining bead.

**XtrPickels** · 10-05-2021, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by toast2266

Interesting results for sure. Rollers probably offer the best chance of repeatable, error free data.

I'd speculate that the results are largely due to the volume reduction in the tire, so a larger insert would essentially replicate higher tire pressure. But higher tire pressure would potentially be less efficient over rough ground, so I wonder if the results would hold on a rooty climb. But certainly harder to produce accurate results in that scenario.

Yeah- I don't have a good explanation for WHY it may be, but this is very likely.
The effect was more pronounced at lower pressure, which would make sense with this theory.

Surprisingly, knowing that the Tannus seems to contact that tire at 3 points (Under the tread and each sidewall), I would have thought it would have affected the hysteresis. My assumption was that Cushcore XC would have been the faster of the two.

**skaredshtles** · 10-05-2021, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Andeh

<snip> I have a DH casing I was planning on running, but I know that won't really protect the rim unless I run pretty high pressures.

**MegaStoke** · 10-05-2021, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Andeh

I'll probably try one suggestion I read of fully seating the tire first, then popping 1 bead and installing the insert. That way you've got more space in the center channel for the insert and remaining bead.

This is absolutely the way to install Tannus inserts.

**Andeh** · 10-07-2021, 09:05 AM

God, fuck Tannus. I'm sorry I gave it a second chance. Mounted a brand new DD Dissector up, it spun clean on my bike. Popped driveside bead, lubed up the insert and started wrestling it in. Getting the first side in wasn't too bad. Second side wasn't going in easy, so I followed the video's suggestion of just doing the final bit of the insert and tire bead at the same time. Since it was greased up, I had to use a C-clamp to pinch the tire on one side while I used a Cushcore lever and my remaining hand to seat the bead. Aired it up ok and got the beads to seat, but when I put it on my bike, the tire now has a 1/4" wobble. Dumped the air, tried massaging the insert around and it feels like it's centered. Pushed down on it while rotating it on the garage floor. Aired it up again, still has a wobble. What a stupid fucking design. I'm so pissed I wasted my money on this product again.

I haven't decided yet whether I'll just grab a Cushcore, or just run DH casing.

LC · 10-07-2021, 10:08 AM

Tannus (rear-only) update: almost as effective as CushCore for me in terms of feel and rim protection - CushCore is a bit more damped/deadened, in a good way (my preference). 100g lighter, no easier or more difficult to install - I install the same way as CushCore not the seat-one-bead-first method and it's fine. And no visible damage from a full summer of lift-access rocky trails like I had with CushCore. I'm sold for now.

Pinkbike rated Rimpact Pro highest - I might have given it a shot if I'd known it was the same weight as Tannus. Maybe next time.

**MegaStoke** · 10-07-2021, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Andeh

God, fuck Tannus. I'm sorry I gave it a second chance. Mounted a brand new DD Dissector up, it spun clean on my bike. Popped driveside bead, lubed up the insert and started wrestling it in. Getting the first side in wasn't too bad. Second side wasn't going in easy, so I followed the video's suggestion of just doing the final bit of the insert and tire bead at the same time. Since it was greased up, I had to use a C-clamp to pinch the tire on one side while I used a Cushcore lever and my remaining hand to seat the bead. Aired it up ok and got the beads to seat, but when I put it on my bike, the tire now has a 1/4" wobble. Dumped the air, tried massaging the insert around and it feels like it's centered. Pushed down on it while rotating it on the garage floor. Aired it up again, still has a wobble. What a stupid fucking design. I'm so pissed I wasted my money on this product again.

I haven't decided yet whether I'll just grab a Cushcore, or just run DH casing.

Weird. We’ve installed dozens of Tannus at my shop and have never encountered a wobble that doesn’t sort itself after a quick massaging/straightening of the insert.

**robnow** · 10-07-2021, 10:50 AM

Having done multiple Tannus Inserts, I don't find it too difficult as long as you have two and ideally three cinch or ski straps.

Install first bead of tire as normal into centre channel, insert Tannus, and then work opposite bead to centre channel by squeezing both sides of tire into there. I can get about 75% of the way around by hand before I cinch/anchor the tire at the furthest most seated portions (lets say 12 and 3 o'clock). Then I pick an anchored end and work it more by hand or lever and keep ratcheting closer and closer with the third ski strap.

**Andeh** · 10-07-2021, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by MegaStoke

Weird. We’ve installed dozens of Tannus at my shop and have never encountered a wobble that doesn’t sort itself after a quick massaging/straightening of the insert.

Do you pop the bead on the tire to try and straighten it? Or just massage it? Both beads of the tire itself are fully seated and I know from mounting just the tire before that the casing isn't fucked up (unless the insert somehow ruined it in installation).

I kind of wonder if the wobbles come from the heavy creases that form in the insert from packaging.

**robnow** · 10-07-2021, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Andeh

I kind of wonder if the wobbles come from the heavy creases that form in the insert from packaging.

I take it out of the packaging for a couple days before installing for this reason. I suppose even using a hair dryer may work the creases out.

**joetron** · 10-07-2021, 11:44 AM

Anybody have slow leak issues with Tannus?

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**robnow** · 10-07-2021, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by joetron

Anybody have slow leak issues with Tannus?

Yes, takes longer for sealant to work its way to beads as it gets 'trapped' on the outside circumference of the tire. A few more rides and sealant than usual should seal the bead. Fortunately it tends to be a slow leak and not enough to disrupt a day of riding.

**cydwhit** · 10-07-2021, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Andeh

I kind of wonder if the wobbles come from the heavy creases that form in the insert from packaging.

Not directly Tannus related, but I, and a few friends have had bad luck with DD wobbles this year. I had a tire that I had put on one rim with no tire levers, with no problems, no wobble, but when I swapped it to a different brand rim, it was much harder to get on and I had to give it some tire lever love. Immediately had a quarter inch wobble when fully seated. Had a friend with a similar thing happen, installed a brand new DD tire, needed three levers to get it on, and had a wobble out the gate. I believe he talked to Maxxis and they told him too much muscle during the installation process screws up the casing and gives you a wobble. He came back saying you need to finesse everything gently with lots of lube and less levers. I know that's anecdotal and unhelpful, but, it sure seems to me that the more effort you're putting into mounting a DoubleDown tire, the more likely you are to put a wobble into the casing as you muscle the bead around, regardless of the existence of an insert.

**VTskibum** · 10-07-2021, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by joetron

Anybody have slow leak issues with Tannus?

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Yes!! Figured I installed it wrong and didn’t want to mess with it to fix. It drops down quite low overnight but seems to hold air through the ride

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**grskier** · 10-07-2021, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by cydwhit

Not directly Tannus related, but I, and a few friends have had bad luck with DD wobbles this year. I had a tire that I had put on one rim with no tire levers, with no problems, no wobble, but when I swapped it to a different brand rim, it was much harder to get on and I had to give it some tire lever love. Immediately had a quarter inch wobble when fully seated. Had a friend with a similar thing happen, installed a brand new DD tire, needed three levers to get it on, and had a wobble out the gate. I believe he talked to Maxxis and they told him too much muscle during the installation process screws up the casing and gives you a wobble. He came back saying you need to finesse everything gently with lots of lube and less levers. I know that's anecdotal and unhelpful, but, it sure seems to me that the more effort you're putting into mounting a DoubleDown tire, the more likely you are to put a wobble into the casing as you muscle the bead around, regardless of the existence of an insert.

I/we have many of the same antidotal evidence.

**Andeh** · 10-07-2021, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by cydwhit

Not directly Tannus related, but I, and a few friends have had bad luck with DD wobbles this year. I had a tire that I had put on one rim with no tire levers, with no problems, no wobble, but when I swapped it to a different brand rim, it was much harder to get on and I had to give it some tire lever love. Immediately had a quarter inch wobble when fully seated. Had a friend with a similar thing happen, installed a brand new DD tire, needed three levers to get it on, and had a wobble out the gate. I believe he talked to Maxxis and they told him too much muscle during the installation process screws up the casing and gives you a wobble. He came back saying you need to finesse everything gently with lots of lube and less levers. I know that's anecdotal and unhelpful, but, it sure seems to me that the more effort you're putting into mounting a DoubleDown tire, the more likely you are to put a wobble into the casing as you muscle the bead around, regardless of the existence of an insert.

Hmm. I guess I'll know after I take the insert out. If it's got a wobble then but didn't before I installed the insert, I'll know that the tire lever work with the insert fucked up the bead or something.

**klauss** · 10-07-2021, 01:20 PM

I was cushcore curious, but this thread is really a boner killer

**grinch** · 10-07-2021, 01:51 PM

Strange i havent had this problem. I dont use maxxis. Used nukeproof ard, huck norris, vittoria air liner and tannus tubeless. Currently using mix of vittoria air liner and tannus tubeless. Used them in schwalbe bb's, michelin dh22,34 and wr2 and spesh grid gravity. Selling a fresh 29" cushcore pro because im overstocked with tannus(saw some on the local buy n sell and snapped them up) so now selling one or 3 of those hesitantly. Ive liked how they work and installed for the most part. I need a 27.5 tannus more than all my 29's. One schwalbe 29 super gravity 2.6 was a major pita to install. Insanely tight bead and that was a problem install but that was most definitely the tire causing the problem. The 2.4 bb super dh went on quite ez

Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

**SJG** · 10-07-2021, 01:55 PM

1/4" of wobble, who gives AF. If you can't feel it, ride it.

Last year I had a DHR which had almost 1" of wobble, could only feel it over 20mph. Didn't affect anything.

**cydwhit** · 10-07-2021, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by SJG

1/4" of wobble, who gives AF. If you can't feel it, ride it.

Last year I had a DHR which had almost 1" of wobble, could only feel it over 20mph. Didn't affect anything.

That's about where I ended up. The tire felt fine, it just looked terrible. Still riding it with no issues. But, for folks who just bought a brand new tire, I can see how it could be really frustrating to have that wobble right out the gate. I'm not convinced the wobble is the insert's fault, and I'll probably go back to a Tannus in the rear next summer once the square-edged descents open back up.