Fatherhood anonymous; an open discussion on being a dad.

[Buzzworthy]

The wisdom you just shared as a parent at your age is impressive to me. I wish you and your family well. Applause to you.

[SkiLyft]

Damn. I really enjoyed reading this and super appreciate your insight and mindset. Our baby girl is 13mo, and we are working on the second.

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Ditto - Ember is 1 year old and we just pulled the goalie out of the goal box!! Man to man coverage scares me a bit but stoked after reading the above story.


Last weekend — Little E plowing her first real sweet thing!





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[yeahman]

Inspired post Jrainey. I don't think I ever learned the level of patience and acceptance you did when playing with my kids, but I did my best.

One fun thing I did was teach my two girls how to play poker. We kept a big bowl of spare change and played using real money. Many evenings were spent sitting on the living room rug playing draw, stud, and blackjack. When grandpa visited he played too. Funny thing is now they are teens and have impressed boys in their group with their knowledge of how to play poker. (And they'll never get suckered into losing at strip poker lol.)

Also spent countless evenings in the driveway shooting baskets. My girls are not tall or big and never played team basketball, but they can kick ass at HORSE and 21. They even beat me occasionally, which makes me proud more than anything.

But when it comes to spending hours talking to them, my wife is good at that but me not so much. Sometimes I feel I should talk to them more but I'm just not a big talker and probably not a great listener either. I do try but I've always sort of lived in my own head and never have been able to overcome that and be fully present. It is something to keep working on.

[shafty85]

A very soulful post, JRainey. I really enjoyed the read. So amazing regarding #3 - that must have been so challenging and so rewarding at the same time. Congrats to you and mom for doing so well with it.

We have #2 arriving tomorrow morning. I am finding it being scheduled to be way more nerve-wracking than the first one who just came when he decided it was time (still a c-section but water broke, laboured and then surgery and you're just in it, not thinking about it).

Regarding time with the kids: they are very, very, few things we do in this world that won't happen again. Pow days, 'perfect' riding days, calm days on the water, hanging with friends - there will be more of those. There won't be more time with your kid when they are young. I'm similar to JRainey in that I have endless playtime endurance. Me and #1 are super tight. I was lucky enough to stop working and just look after him for 4-5 months when he was 1 year and mom went back to work. We continue to be incredibly close. Is it tough at times? Absolutely. Is it worth it? Absolutely. Would I rather be out on a pow day rather than riding the bike around town, out on a walk or out for a mellow ride on the single track with the kid? No, despite loving skiing, I want to do it less than I want to hang with the little man. Even at 20months I already miss the days when he was younger and try to cherish every moment I can with him - it'll be the blink of an eye and he'll be leaving me in the dust and won't want to hang with the slow old man any more.

Little man about to drop in on his first solo ride on the local single track last weekend.

[shafty85]

Ditto - Ember is 1 year old and we just pulled the goalie out of the goal box!! Man to man coverage scares me a bit but stoked after reading the above story.


Last weekend — Little E plowing her first real sweet thing!





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Yeah man - such great photos. Cake time!!!

[JRainey]

Our baby girl is 13mo, and we are working on the second. I'm way more nervous about having two than I was about one, but now I'm imagining backpack baby (she's all about it atm) plus arm baby on the local trails and that is something for me to look forward to. Love giving mama that time off.

I'll never forget the first day I took out #1 and #2 alone. #2 was 1mo old and barely big enough to fit in the carrier. Just an hour trip to the playground. I was scared, but BUZZING. You're always ready when you need to be. Normal life doesn't extract your full potential (which is why we all like "extreme" sports), being a scared dad gets you closer.

It's a question now whether we continue or close up the reproduction chapter of our lives. I could certainly handle another one, but it might be the right time to stop so everybody can get plenty of attention.

Austria is great for kids, most people we know have or are cooking up 3. It's just less stressful. Health insurance isn't cheap, but it's a stable expense with no surprises. The cost of living is going up in here, but it's much lower than a US mountain town. We don't need a car (mostly), live in an apartment, and I'm 2 blocks from a tram. Any single ski bums wandering into this thread should consider saving their money, spending a season in europe, find a nice local girl to knock up, and live the dream. Only half-joking.

I'm a bit ahead of the curve here though, there are very few amenity migrants (learned that phrase from LeeLau) in my town. I'm second generation as my dad moved from AR to JH to live the dream, I wanted to give my kids the same gift (it's not for me, I swear!). We lived in a small city before our current town and everyone there said it was stupid to move to a ski town. People here say I'm stupid for moving from JH to this town, cuz it's not a real ski town.

But just leaned it what I thought was the best option in front of me at the time. Now I'm staying put. 2 hour door to door skiing, with access to soft snow 90% of the time. 5500 feet of pow to the valley when it's right. I can e-bike to alpine touring terrain, mid winter, in 45mins. It's for the kids, remember that...

I would have never had any of this without kids, or my wife. I'd be pissed in JH about all the new block houses that aren't mine, going all North Shore Pipeline Local and sloughing out some newcomer kooks, trying to play big dawg in neverland.

But even if life changed and I had to live in the US or Germany, we'd still have tons of fun. Skiing isn't the only cool thing around.

It's interesting the only person I knew with Down Syndrome growing up was the daughter of Dave Miller a Jackson ski guide legend who also guided (maybe still does) in AK. His oldest daughter Micah (with down syndrome) is a ski instructor now, but she was in my sister's class from Kindergarten til High School graduation. Because of knowing she was part of the community, from the first pregnancy we never got the enhanced testing that would check for disabilities. I didn't want to have to make the decision, specifically on a baby with Down Syndrome. That said, when I was presented with the news, I had long forgotten about it as even a remote possibility (the others were fine, ya know?) So it was bad. I had to check the name tag in the NICU, it was unbelievable. I cried at every normal little or big boy I saw, mourning the loss of that potential.

The universe had other plans. After what seemed like never encountering people with Down Syndrome in my daily life, I and they were magnetically attracted to each other. There was a little boy at the hospital just waiting with his mom, that I just had to sit next to and talked to (which seemed to wig out his mom). Another in his 40s just came straight up to me and tried to give me a hug, before his guardian stopped him. And 10 other run-ins and interactions, all within a month. And once my idea of "normal" changed, they stopped showing up. I still notice people around now and then. Micah called my sister out of the blue after many many years of no contact, funny.

[mcphee]

Couple of great reads from you JRainey. Thank you for sharing!


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[The SnowShow]

Would I rather be out on a pow day rather than riding the bike around town, out on a walk or out for a mellow ride on the single track with the kid? No, despite loving skiing, I want to do it less than I want to hang with the little man.

Agree so much. I love family skiing more now than powder days.

Congrats on no. 2!!

[Dromond]

Austria is great for kids, most people we know have or are cooking up 3. It's just less stressful. Health insurance isn't cheap, but it's a stable expense with no surprises. The cost of living is going up in here, but it's much lower than a US mountain town. We don't need a car (mostly), live in an apartment, and I'm 2 blocks from a tram. Any single ski bums wandering into this thread should consider saving their money, spending a season in europe, find a nice local girl to knock up, and live the dream. Only half-joking.

I'm a bit ahead of the curve here though, there are very few amenity migrants (learned that phrase from LeeLau) in my town. I'm second generation as my dad moved from AR to JH to live the dream, I wanted to give my kids the same gift (it's not for me, I swear!). We lived in a small city before our current town and everyone there said it was stupid to move to a ski town. People here say I'm stupid for moving from JH to this town, cuz it's not a real ski town.

But just leaned it what I thought was the best option in front of me at the time. Now I'm staying put. 2 hour door to door skiing, with access to soft snow 90% of the time. 5500 feet of pow to the valley when it's right. I can e-bike to alpine touring terrain, mid winter, in 45mins. It's for the kids, remember that...

I actually did not know there was much cost to health insurance in Austria. (Not that I know much about Austria.) Good for you for sticking with what you want. I do get the sense that the ability for people of modest means with kids to live in close range to decent, skiable mountains - or even just in somewhat desirable towns/cities / is currently a lot higher in some parts of Europe. Specifically, it seems like there are a lot more apartments, more transit, and more mountain access overall. Your post seems to confirm these things at least… Do you own or rent your place? Are RE costs in your area spiking with Covid?

The lifetime cost of having a kid in the US can get pretty out of hand with day care, rapidly increasing RE costs anywhere with much to offer in terms of amenities, the possible need/desire to live in a more expensive location because of schools, health insurance, and possible university costs. Not to mention that you always want to be stacking cash for retirement in the unfortunate case that you survive that long. Some neighbors of ours in Seattle are a couple with one kid; two professionals, one of whom is from Germany. They just moved back there basically for the above reasons - feeling priced out and betting they’d do better there.

Live update from my camp is that we have a three month old girl. My partner and I are on leave for several months, which I can’t imagine not doing. We’ve done a few short trips with the baby so far which has been really fun despite challenges. I even got to partake in a one week ski trip to shangri-la due to the good graces of my wife and mother in law. Baby has already been on one ski trip, and we are going on another next week. A week after that, we are traveling to the east coast to visit family, and then continuing on to Europe to tourist it up with the baby for several weeks. We always wanted to travel a bit when she was small, and make use of the very rare opportunity to have a few months off of work all together.

Our only real hack so far is to get an au pair to come live with us. Some friends of ours had great luck with them over the years, and we are excited to host the person we matched with. It always made more sense to me than daycare - at least for an infant. Our fingers and toes are crossed!

[JRainey]

I think an au pair is a great way to go, good consistency... maybe she's hot...

We bought a place right before the latest baby was born and got keys 3 weeks afterward. It was good timing as 2020 made me stop spending enough to save a down payment. We decided to buy an apartment instead of stacking more cash and reaching for a house. Good mortgage rates obvs.

We kind of slipped under the radar as we bought a cheaper old apartment, 4th floor walkup, but in a solid concrete building, big windows, 2 balconies. Demand for this type of apartment was low when we bought it. New apartments with the same square footage would be twice the price with a less practical layout (5 rooms). Houses prices really popped here with Covid so our decision made even more sense. It was newly renovated for sale so we didn't get caught up with any increased prices. Tons of renovations around here too. Our landlords were trying to kick us at the same time so they could renovate our apartment. Nobody could resist that cheap money.

I'm self-employed, so I'm aware of my social insurance tax more than an employed person. It's not too bad in that it's basically social security which includes health care. Now, for a family a 5 I guess it's getting pretty affordable.

Traveling with babies around cities is the best. They hardly restrict you at all, unless you need nightlife. But they can sleep even if you're out. I've graduated from that phase, but enjoy it!
Now I have to wait until they're like 10, or make sure it's to a zoo, amusement park, or endless string of playgrounds.

[TahoeJ]

My friends had a super hot au pair and during her time with them she managed to get knocked up. lol... there was a slight air of suspicion from my buddy's wife for a while until she met the boyfriend. haha.

[Dromond]

I think an au pair is a great way to go, good consistency... maybe she's hot...

We bought a place right before the latest baby was born and got keys 3 weeks afterward. It was good timing as 2020 made me stop spending enough to save a down payment. We decided to buy an apartment instead of stacking more cash and reaching for a house. Good mortgage rates obvs.

We kind of slipped under the radar as we bought a cheaper old apartment, 4th floor walkup, but in a solid concrete building, big windows, 2 balconies. Demand for this type of apartment was low when we bought it. New apartments with the same square footage would be twice the price with a less practical layout (5 rooms). Houses prices really popped here with Covid so our decision made even more sense. It was newly renovated for sale so we didn't get caught up with any increased prices. Tons of renovations around here too. Our landlords were trying to kick us at the same time so they could renovate our apartment. Nobody could resist that cheap money.

I'm self-employed, so I'm aware of my social insurance tax more than an employed person. It's not too bad in that it's basically social security which includes health care. Now, for a family a 5 I guess it's getting pretty affordable.

Traveling with babies around cities is the best. They hardly restrict you at all, unless you need nightlife. But they can sleep even if you're out. I've graduated from that phase, but enjoy it!
Now I have to wait until they're like 10, or make sure it's to a zoo, amusement park, or endless string of playgrounds.

Interesting to hear someone’s story who is from the US and living in the eurozone. Good luck

[californiagrown]

Work-Life balance. About what age do you wish you had spent more time/energy on your kid. I would guess ages 4-13 are the ideal ages to kind of step back from work responsibility and focus more on your kids and their development... but id like to hear from dads who have been there done that. My kid is 6months right now, and real fucking cute... but im not sure its worth stepping back from work responsibility right now at this stage. But, you never get this time back with them and I will never prioritize work over family... i just dont want to sacrifice the financial future for very limited benefit.

[eastcoastskr]

I did almost this exactly. I transitioned to a role with much less hours, responsibility, stress, etc. (and of course less pay to go with it).

I pulled the trigger when my oldest was 6 and the younger two (twins) were 4. Since I knew I had to work and couldn't SAH, this made sense to me since it allowed me the hours and flexibility to help with getting them on and off the bus, in addition to taking them to after school activities, coaching sports, etc.

They are now 10 and 8, and I don't have any regrets after 4+ years. Sometimes I get FOMO when I see old colleagues "passing" me in the ranks and surely making significantly more $$ than I do, but I just remind myself that if I was still in my old role I'd see my kids half as much.

[californiagrown]

They are now 10 and 8, and I don't have any regrets after 4+ years.

My regret will not come from stepping back from work- that has always been my life plan and one of the small handful of things i think my dad really did well with me. My regret will come from stepping back too early and leaving significant money on the table. My wife makes more money than me, and does the literal exact job she has wanted to do since she was 7, while i make good money at a job im only doing because they cut the Forestry program the summer before entering college.

[oldnew_guy]

I sidestepped into a job with more flexibility in the last couple of years. I might take another step back in 2-3. No regrets here. Kids are 3 and 5.

Wife has a high demand high pay job that she loves and I sort of simultaneously realized that work is just work for me, we both can’t have high stress high demand jobs, need to work to stack the retirement account and I wasn’t suited to full time care of the kids either. So now I have way more flexibility, WFH more, make close to the same, but less interest in climbing the ladder and can cover the very expensive daycare bill.

I wish I could work 3/4 or 1/2 time. Guy I know is constantly out midweek skiing and biking with his 4 year old.

I can’t wait until daycare is over, holy shit is that expensive.

[johnnyg82]

After taking a pat leave that started July 2019, I was to return to work March 2020, the week before I was to return, we were all told to work from home. So here I am, my kid turns 3 in a couple weeks, and in that time, I only worked away from home for 2 months.
There are sometimes I feel useless at work, but then I hear a little kid laughing and think, I’d rather be here than in an office any day.

[phatty]

My kids are 21, 18, 16, 14 and 11. I've been working a high level job with a decent amount of travel (20%) for the last 10 years. I would say that 4-13 are important but the teen years are the most important for you to be around. That's when your kids (and spouse) need you around as a father.

While I traveled, I made sure to call and talk to them every day wherever I was in the world (I'm in Germany now) and always be at every game/performance when I'm home. I WFH and make sure I see them off to school every morning and come up from my office when they get home from school. While it would have been nice to be around more while they were younger, I don't regret the path that I took and have great relationships with all of them.

They need to know that you love them and will be there when they need you. That doesn't mean you need to be around all the time.

I should also include the disclaimer that my wife stays home and is amazing. I couldn't have the career I do without her support.

[TahoeJ]

They say 80% of being a good dad is just being there. Forget whose quote that is but I think it might be somewhat correct.

I have friends who are probably better at it than me and their kids are fuckups, while mine went through an ugly divorce and then Covid and the kids are all thriving. Point is, don’t put too much pressure on the whole thing and go with the flow. But, flaws aside, I was there… even if I wasn’t always as attentive as I probably should have been.

Edit: being there doesn’t mean all the time, just when it matters and they really need you.

[Mazderati]

So, I'm looking into in-home childcare during the day which I guess qualifies as looking for a nanny. It's kind of a hassle and the opposite of cheap which is fine - it is a little person and a lot of time - but I don't want to be an employer and dealing with taxes, sick days, holidays, and shit. Just care about my kid and take my money. Also, childcare in the US is pathetic. That is all.

[406]

We use care.com and just found our second nanny. They do legal payroll too.
X2 on cost being crazy expensive and not fun being an employer.

[skiJ]

an interesting and a challenging dilemma, fellas -

I would offer,
( please) don't underestimate the importance of the early childhood years -
at the point at which a child ( baby) is awake and interactive ( beyond eating and sleeping ), ... at the point at which a toddler is awake and interactive, they are Always learning -

waiting until a child is older, they will already have adopted a whole series of behaviors.

my encouragement is be as involved as you practically can, as early as you possibly can(,) after your child is beyond the (sleeping and eating) stage.
Those lessons become the foundation for a child's development.


interesting to read the idea of being More-present for teenagers -
I probably don't understand --
( I have known many teens and pre-teens that needed to begin to experience independence.
at the same time, the great parents I have known have had important roles in there kids activities ( 'music parents, club sport parents, that make sure their kids always get to Practice and performances or games.
Some of these parents are visible - many are less-visible and every bit as vital ).


a final thought -
the most successful parents I have seen in many years, treat their kids like people - patiently explaining Why things need to be the way they need to be ;
those kids are ,,, never (belittled) as just-children ;
in my experience, children raised this way often develop an early maturity
( there are probably also other genetic factors ).

Good luck !
being a parent is your most important job !

respectfully. skiJ

[SkiLyft]

Regarding getting a nanny, we stole ours from the daycare as E never adjusted to daycare during the 1.5 months she was there. Ours is such an amazing human who was abused by the daycare and got paid less than minimum wage. I’m sure this is the story for many daycare workers so if your kiddo is in daycare and your sick of the constant closers and staffing issues — talk to the staff there.

We have her set up as a household employee, I run payroll through a system called Gusto that withholds taxes, deductions, yaddda yadda. Super easy and don’t mind it at all.

Little E has such a strong bond with our nanny and it’s fully reciprocated. She is a part of our family and intends to be for many many years to come. I pay her well and we accommodate any time off she wants. She gets paid every 2 weeks regardless of vacation time.


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[The SnowShow]

Great quote from a friend whose daughter did 4 years of gymnastics and then decided it wasn’t for her:
“Yeah, I raised a quitter. But I got my weekends back!”

In all seriousness, I don’t know how some of these parents do it. I have so many friends/acquaintances who have over-scheduled their kids so they have like 3 sports for each kid each season, sometimes extra tutoring or music lessons and their entire lives outside of school and work are basically driving to and from practices/games/events.

[Danno]

Great quote from a friend whose daughter did 4 years of gymnastics and then decided it wasn’t for her:
“Yeah, I raised a quitter. But I got my weekends back!”

In all seriousness, I don’t know how some of these parents do it. I have so many friends/acquaintances who have over-scheduled their kids so they have like 3 sports for each kid each season, sometimes extra tutoring or music lessons and their entire lives outside of school and work are basically driving to and from practices/games/events.

Not to mention the expense! Have just one kid, and generally do two things, skiing and soccer. It's all I can afford, for one, but I can't do the constant shuttling to activities either. And can't afford to pay someone to do it. Can't really afford the skiing either, but she really wants to do it and it's skiing, so I accept the financial sacrifice.

I feel bad, there's lots of stuff my kiddo would like to do that I have to shut down.