Fatherhood anonymous; an open discussion on being a dad.

[alpinevibes]

Am I extremely selfish for not wanting to devote tons of future time to support my (now tiny) kid in sports that I personally don’t enjoy?

I support this. I'm pretty against the Hocket+Lacrosse world that I live amongst here in Aspen. I know the grass wont be much greener if I steer my kids towards alpine, nordic, mountain biking, etc, but fuck sitting in a arena all weekend or dealing with the boarding school bred upper crust whose children are destined to be hockey and lax stars like their blue blood parents never were. But, that's just me and my hill to die on as I continue to work and grovel at the feet of billionaires in my life path.

[fatnslow]

I support this. I'm pretty against the Hocket+Lacrosse world that I live amongst here in Aspen. I know the grass wont be much greener if I steer my kids towards alpine, nordic, mountain biking, etc, but fuck sitting in a arena all weekend or dealing with the boarding school bred upper crust whose children are destined to be hockey and lax stars like their blue blood parents never were. But, that's just me and my hill to die on as I continue to work and grovel at the feet of billionaires in my life path.

Your kid(s) will let you know what they want to pursue.... Let them dictate and just be the best chauffer and fry cook possible as long as they're into it. My youngest of 3 is 20 and I don't regret a single second of the many gym session during pow days. There were definitely moments of WTF while it was happening but looking back it's helped shape my kids into becoming great young adults.

Working hard, max effort, be a great team mate and always be coachable.

[Timberridge]

I support this. I'm pretty against the Hocket+Lacrosse world that I live amongst here in Aspen. I know the grass wont be much greener if I steer my kids towards alpine, nordic, mountain biking, etc, but fuck sitting in a arena all weekend or dealing with the boarding school bred upper crust whose children are destined to be hockey and lax stars like their blue blood parents never were. But, that's just me and my hill to die on as I continue to work and grovel at the feet of billionaires in my life path.

It's just a different twist on reading the same boring bedtime book over and over that your kid enjoys. Don't let your social biases become your kid's.

Your kid(s) will let you know what they want to pursue.... Let them dictate and just be the best chauffer and fry cook possible as long as they're into it. My youngest of 3 is 20 and I don't regret a single second of the many gym session during pow days. There were definitely moments of WTF while it was happening but looking back it's helped shape my kids into becoming great young adults.

Working hard, max effort, be a great team mate and always be coachable.

Exactly. At one point my kid was doing freestyle moguls all over the East Coast. I'll take the gym because there ain't nothing quite like driving 8 hrs to Maine to watch two 25 second runs.

[Dromond]

For me, I think it has to be a balance. I’ll read the bedtime book my kid loves even if I’m bored of it, but I also try to pick out some books she will enjoy and I can stand reading to make it easier for me to be engaged, and enjoy the process, which ultimately keeps her happy as well.

[skaredshtles]

As long as the books denigrate baseball, I'm in.

[californiagrown]

As long as the books denigrate baseball, I'm in.

OK, ill bite. Why such extreme negative feelings towards baseball? You have now made multiple posts shitting on the sport despite no one responding to you or engaging leading me to believe it goes much, much deeper than simple disinterest. Is there a good story there?

[Timberridge]

He's probably French.

[skaredshtles]

OK, ill bite. Why such extreme negative feelings towards baseball? You have now made multiple posts shitting on the sport despite no one responding to you or engaging leading me to believe it goes much, much deeper than simple disinterest. Is there a good story there?

He's probably French.

[schuss]

In my limited experience, the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree in terms of which sports my son gravitates to:
Engaging action sports such as mtb and skiing = yes
Team sports = mostly no (other than flag football and ultimate to some extent)
My daughter is more about snacks and art than physical things (other than hitting her brother)

[BmillsSkier]

It's just a different twist on reading the same boring bedtime book over and over that your kid enjoys. Don't let your social biases become your kid's.



Exactly. At one point my kid was doing freestyle moguls all over the East Coast. I'll take the gym because there ain't nothing quite like driving 8 hrs to Maine to watch two 25 second runs.

Ha, I resemble that remark. Except I had to get my ass from OH to Holiday Valley for training, then to points even farther afield for competitions. Dad supported the shit out of it cause he was a great dad. I did like spending my summers training on Mt. Hood though.

A quick $0.02 on the few topics these past few pages:

Go/No-go for Kindergarten. Our son was a cusp birthday and would have been on the younger side of his class for K. He's academically on the advanced side, but at that age couldn't sit still to save his life. Also a beanpole too. We met with the admissions team at his school, our doctors and my sister who is in early childhood education and came to the conclusion that one more year of Pre-K was the right path. I can't emphasize how well it's worked out for him. He's a leader among his classmates now instead of trying to keep up with the older/bigger boys. He's matured beyond our imagination that the ants in the pants kid we used to know seems like someone else all together. In all, he's thriving and we couldn't be more proud of him; very thankful to have the right school/educators/support team to make the right decision and set him up for success.

TL;DR, discuss your decision and questions with everyone who has a stake in your kid's life and education and wants to see them succeed then make the call that's right for them.


Commitment to a sport. Our son loves soccer, and he's way better than I ever was at his age so we support his desire to play all he can. When he was 7 his club team director told all the parents at the end of the fall season that he would really like to see the boys commit to soccer going forward if they want to be a part of this club. Seven.

Our son wanted to play baseball in the spring (along with soccer) so this upset him. We did baseball which is hudge down here and which, holy shit to Timber's point, every other dad in the stands was convinced their 8 year old was going to be the next Chipper Jones. Got on a good team with great coaches and had a blast. Noticed that at soccer, despite being one of the top goal-scorers in his year, he was getting bumped down to the B team on weekends and couldn't figure out why. Talked to the director after a game one weekend where he had 3 goals and he said its because we're not 100% in on the club and are being distracted by other activities. OK, that made our choice very easy and left that club at the end of the season to play for his school full time. Fuck anyone that tells a kid under 13 that they need to specialize, it's a great way to burn them out and make them hate a sport they used to like.

[riser4]

Ha, I resemble that remark. Except I had to get my ass from OH to Holiday Valley for training, then to points even farther afield for competitions. Dad supported the shit out of it cause he was a great dad. I did like spending my summers training on Mt. Hood though.

A quick $0.02 on the few topics these past few pages:

Go/No-go for Kindergarten. Our son was a cusp birthday and would have been on the younger side of his class for K. He's academically on the advanced side, but at that age couldn't sit still to save his life. Also a beanpole too. We met with the admissions team at his school, our doctors and my sister who is in early childhood education and came to the conclusion that one more year of Pre-K was the right path. I can't emphasize how well it's worked out for him. He's a leader among his classmates now instead of trying to keep up with the older/bigger boys. He's matured beyond our imagination that the ants in the pants kid we used to know seems like someone else all together. In all, he's thriving and we couldn't be more proud of him; very thankful to have the right school/educators/support team to make the right decision and set him up for success.

TL;DR, discuss your decision and questions with everyone who has a stake in your kid's life and education and wants to see them succeed then make the call that's right for them.


Commitment to a sport. Our son loves soccer, and he's way better than I ever was at his age so we support his desire to play all he can. When he was 7 his club team director told all the parents at the end of the fall season that he would really like to see the boys commit to soccer going forward if they want to be a part of this club. Seven.

Our son wanted to play baseball in the spring (along with soccer) so this upset him. We did baseball which is hudge down here and which, holy shit to Timber's point, every other dad in the stands was convinced their 8 year old was going to be the next Chipper Jones. Got on a good team with great coaches and had a blast. Noticed that at soccer, despite being one of the top goal-scorers in his year, he was getting bumped down to the B team on weekends and couldn't figure out why. Talked to the director after a game one weekend where he had 3 goals and he said its because we're not 100% in on the club and are being distracted by other activities. OK, that made our choice very easy and left that club at the end of the season to play for his school full time. Fuck anyone that tells a kid under 13 that they need to specialize, it's a great way to burn them out and make them hate a sport they used to like.

I've seen some of that and it's fucked up.

[alias_rice]

Fuck anyone that tells a kid under 13 that they need to specialize, it's a great way to burn them out and make them hate a sport they used to like.

Not to mention that it is completely counterproductive, unless the goal is to peak in junior high. There’s a litany of studies that show multisport athletes have a much higher likelihood of playing beyond high school.

[BmillsSkier]

Right? Some parents brought that up at the year-end meeting and it was met with some conciliatory words of agreement but ended with "I'd really like to see your son commit in the spring".

[Timberridge]

I'll also add this. The dream of playing a sport in college can turn into a nightmare for some kids. I can only speak to D1, but they own all your free time and it will test your love of the sport.

[anotherVTskibum]

I'll also add this. The dream of playing a sport in college can turn into a nightmare for some kids. I can only speak to D1, but they own all your free time and it will test your love of the sport.

I failed to make the college ski team and suddenly found myself with more money in my checking account and more free time than I'd had in years. In hindsight, while I'm glad I kept at it through high school, I'm also glad that I was forced to pull the plug at that point. I'm a better skier (technically) now, and I'm still not anywhere near D1-competitive good.

FWIW, I'm a May birthday but repeated kindergarten, and I think that probably was the right call because I'm still socially awkward and being young for the class would not have helped at all. I usually tell people I failed finger painting, though.

[riser4]

Thing #1 repeated preschool because the school district changed the cutoff that year to August 31. He's a December kid. He thought for the longest time that he failed preschool and had to repeat. We were glad we were able to eventually correct the record. Kids.

[Adolf Allerbush]

We have 3 levels of travel baseball (A,B,C) age 8 thru 15 and there are ~350 kids in our program. The #1 issue we always have is a parent of a 9 yr old having a fit about their kid being placed on a B team after tryouts, We have a local college baseball team run our tryouts so we think the tryouts are pretty fair and objective. After fielding these calls for 4 years, I decided to look back at the stats and compare the makeup of the 25 person HS Varsity rosters to the respective U9 travel teams from 7 yrs prior. Conclusion: the HS Varsity was made up of ~30% "A", 30% "B", and 30% "C" players from the U9 level. This varied somewhat over a 4 yr span but those % stayed roughly the same. Furthermore, about 15-20% of the Varsity team went on to play college baseball at various D1/D2/D3 schools, and again that group was a mix of A/B/C players at U9.

Back to the point californiagrown made about burnout. The #1 or #2 reason the A team was not represented more at HS Varsity was burnout. Some quit baseball for other sports, others just lost the passion. Conversely, the less skilled B and C players that continued on had a passion for the sport. If you find getting your kid to practice a particular sport is like pulling teeth, take a break from it. If they come back to it after a break, you know they love to do it and it will be much more of a pleasure for both you and them.

Interesting to read about how other baseball programs do it. My oldest loves baseball so I decided to help out on the community baseball board which also gave me a behind the scenes perspective. Similar sized organization here to the one you're talking about, around 500 kids, but it goes to a younger age than your situation, down to T-ball with kids as young as 5 years old. The way you guys handle tryouts sounds much more fair than how this organization does it. Having the local college, which is probably unbiased or at lest less biased, is a great idea. I might borrow that and suggest it here...anyhow, our tryouts are conducted by the high school staff but each of the "A" team coaches, which are parents of kids on each team, has an opportunity to provide their opinion. One of these coaches runs a private baseball training organization as his primary income and you may have guessed it, the kids that train with him also always make the team. I brought up that we might want to keep him out of the tryout process to given that even if he's not intending to bias the selection process, he probably tends to do so without even thinking about it...meaning, even if Billy has a bad tryout he knows Billy well from training with him and that he can play better so just put him on the team...that sort of thing. He's considered Baseball Jesus around here, so that went over like a fart in an elevator. We did a similar exercise to the one you describe, analyzing make up of the select and recreational teams (i.e. C teams or lower) and turned out that maybe 75% of kids on the varsity HS team were comprised of kids that were never on an A team, but we have more that re-enter the HS ranks from private, probably a direct result of the ridiculous "selection" process for A teams.

I'll say this, baseball parents are some of the worst I've been around and I don't really know why that is. Hoops isn't nearly as bad...football seems pretty chill relative to baseball as well. Not sure where i'm going with this other than to say that kids sports have become pretty insane around these parts.

Fuck anyone that tells a kid under 13 that they need to specialize, it's a great way to burn them out and make them hate a sport they used to like.

It's the exact opposite for my kids sports....their club programs want them playing other sports and would consider it a negative if a kid is specializing at that age and even later in age.

[alias_rice]

The youth baseball scene in Utah is completely different than what you guys describe. The local community leagues here are all really low level. Pretty much every kid with any talent that likes playing moves to a private team by 10U if not earlier. The upside is that you can find a team that works best for your kid, but the downside is the minimum entry price is probably $1,000 per season, before any travel expenses.

I do have to say, though, that you guys that are volunteering for your local leagues are better men than me. My buddy ran the local league for a few years and ended up getting sued over 8U machine pitch All-Star selections. Parents are fucking loons sometimes. I want nothing to do with that shit.

[Adolf Allerbush]

The youth baseball scene in Utah is completely different than what you guys describe. The local community leagues here are all really low level. Pretty much every kid with any talent that likes playing moves to a private team by 10U if not earlier. The upside is that you can find a team that works best for your kid, but the downside is the minimum entry price is probably $1,000 per season, before any travel expenses.

I do have to say, though, that you guys that are volunteering for your local leagues are better men than me. My buddy ran the local league for a few years and ended up getting sued over 8U machine pitch All-Star selections. Parents are fucking loons sometimes. I want nothing to do with that shit.

$1,000 for private baseball is pretty cheap...fwiw

Also, no thanks on dealing with getting sued for all-star selections. People are really nuts.

Get this...last spring one of our "select A-teams" won the Cal Ripken Regional for 11u. The Cal Ripken league doesn't have a "world series" path for 11u, instead they offer an auto-bid to the organization (i.e., not to the team) for the following 12u world series. The coach (baseball Jesus) accepted the autobid without checking with the community organization first. He and the parents then argued that their team needed to be frozen (i.e., no tryouts) so they could compete in next years WS...only issue is we have to have open tryouts each year as part of our non-profit charter and the coach/parents said this wasn't known to them, even though it's in the documents when they signed up for the season. This blows up into a hudge deal culminating in a special board meeting session open to the public. I think we counted around 80 people at the board meeting including the kids on the team in question, parents, grand parents, and other interested parties including a sports writer in the area that's friends with baseball Jesus. Parents are swearing at us calling us liars, saying we're trying to take their kids accomplishment away, etc. Coach makes it known that if we don't acquiesce that his sports reporter buddy is going to publish his story in the local papers and bring down a shit storm on us. We decide to have a board vote about keeping their team together. I and four other board members obtained since we have kids that might be affected by whatever decision is made (i.e., probably biased in my vote). Ultimately the remaining members voted to keep the team together. I say all of this to lay out how crazy youth sports are sometimes. People straight up lose their minds over this shit.

[Timberridge]

Interesting stuff Adolph. We collect a $30/kid tryout fee and the local college baseball team comes for a Saturday in the fall to conduct the tryouts. They bring their pitching machines and baseballs and whatever else they need. We buy them lunch and sodas and they're happy to get the remaining $10K to help fund their program.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

I support this. I'm pretty against the Hocket+Lacrosse world that I live amongst here in Aspen. I know the grass wont be much greener if I steer my kids towards alpine, nordic, mountain biking, etc, but fuck sitting in a arena all weekend or dealing with the boarding school bred upper crust whose children are destined to be hockey and lax stars like their blue blood parents never were. But, that's just me and my hill to die on as I continue to work and grovel at the feet of billionaires in my life path.

It's just a different twist on reading the same boring bedtime book over and over that your kid enjoys. Don't let your social biases become your kid's.

I would echo Timberridge's sentiment. And I would also add that while I can't speak to the boys side of the lax program here, the girls side IME is definitely not the "upper-crust, blood blood scene" you seem to think it is. My 13yo has played for 4 years now and all the parents and girls, including those coming from Country Day, are all perfectly nice, reasonable people. Most of the parents in my daughters age-cohort hadn't even seen a lacrosse game before their daughters started playing. Are the parents cliquey sometimes? Absolutely, but that has more to do with the weird socio-economic mix of our town and you're going to end up dealing with that in any sport or activity your kid gets into here.

I'm not saying you have to let your kids play lacrosse or hockey or whatever, but the type of parents you describe are a feature of this town and not exclusive to any particular sport or activity so I wouldn't use them as basis for deciding which sports to let your kids try because you'll be dealing with them in any sport here.

[californiagrown]

$1,000 for private baseball is pretty cheap...fwiw

Also, no thanks on dealing with getting sued for all-star selections. People are really nuts.

Get this...last spring one of our "select A-teams" won the Cal Ripken Regional for 11u. The Cal Ripken league doesn't have a "world series" path for 11u, instead they offer an auto-bid to the organization (i.e., not to the team) for the following 12u world series. The coach (baseball Jesus) accepted the autobid without checking with the community organization first. He and the parents then argued that their team needed to be frozen (i.e., no tryouts) so they could compete in next years WS...only issue is we have to have open tryouts each year as part of our non-profit charter and the coach/parents said this wasn't known to them, even though it's in the documents when they signed up for the season. This blows up into a hudge deal culminating in a special board meeting session open to the public. I think we counted around 80 people at the board meeting including the kids on the team in question, parents, grand parents, and other interested parties including a sports writer in the area that's friends with baseball Jesus. Parents are swearing at us calling us liars, saying we're trying to take their kids accomplishment away, etc. Coach makes it known that if we don't acquiesce that his sports reporter buddy is going to publish his story in the local papers and bring down a shit storm on us. We decide to have a board vote about keeping their team together. I and four other board members obtained since we have kids that might be affected by whatever decision is made (i.e., probably biased in my vote). Ultimately the remaining members voted to keep the team together. I say all of this to lay out how crazy youth sports are sometimes. People straight up lose their minds over this shit.

Ammend the charter and let the kids play together at the world series (which is a super exceptional and special circumstance). Why would that have been so difficult? Seems common sense to me.

[Mazderati]

My own attention span hopes for a diversity of interests with short seasons.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Ammend the charter and let the kids play together at the world series (which is a super exceptional and special circumstance). Why would that have been so difficult? Seems common sense to me.

Exactly what happened. Emotions just ran extremely high.

[alpinevibes]

I would echo Timberridge's sentiment. And I would also add that while I can't speak to the boys side of the lax program here, the girls side IME is definitely not the "upper-crust, blood blood scene" you seem to think it is. My 13yo has played for 4 years now and all the parents and girls, including those coming from Country Day, are all perfectly nice, reasonable people. Most of the parents in my daughters age-cohort hadn't even seen a lacrosse game before their daughters started playing. Are the parents cliquey sometimes? Absolutely, but that has more to do with the weird socio-economic mix of our town and you're going to end up dealing with that in any sport or activity your kid gets into here.

I'm not saying you have to let your kids play lacrosse or hockey or whatever, but the type of parents you describe are a feature of this town and not exclusive to any particular sport or activity so I wouldn't use them as basis for deciding which sports to let your kids try because you'll be dealing with them in any sport here.

I hear ya, and I appreciate. My post was more of a vent than a true reflection of ignorance. I'm a west coast kid with zero exposure to either and when I moved to Aspen and Country Day they were manifestations of a different world I didn't know how to relate to. I own my bias and unnecessary aversion to lacrosse and hockey, but sometimes it bubbles over.

From my decade plus in the special little world here at Country Day those two sports' ecosystems seem to breed both kids and parents that really rub me the wrong way and have made those a massive turn-off for me. But like I said: I know the grass isn't really any greener in most other sports, certainly not from my experience with AVSC alpine. Aspen and this valley is what it is and people are who they are, and I realize that most people have pretty positive experiences on their avenues. I still don't plan on having/letting my kids go towards those sports but we'll cross that bridge when life comes to it.