Fatherhood anonymous; an open discussion on being a dad.

[The Reverend Floater]

It literally cost me 98 cents for two scrips when the wife and I had it over the holidays. Back to normal after the first pill. Get some lemons drops on hand as it leaves a real shifty taste in your mouth.

Speaking of illness I’m getting crushed by rotavirus. Thank god they vax the kids for it these days. My little dude has skated so far. I’ve never been so sick in my love except for maybe mono.

Dude, for me, rotavirus was 10x as gnarly as the Vid. It seriously put me down for almost 2 weeks. Best of luck.

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[ghosthop]

Where do you all sit on letting your toddler make their own decisions?

We have been permissive as long as it doesn’t affect safety and we are prepared to deal with the immediate consequences.

The contentious example is at the Winter Farmer’s market I let our 18 month old walk instead of using the stroller. His choice and when he gets tired I am fine with carrying him back to the car. He often helps me pick items at stands and if not he has to stand holding onto my leg or my hand. He follows the rules and so far hasn’t done anything to make me believe I can’t trust him in that setting.

Am I being foolish?

Some Sugarhouse Park stoke. My boy doesn’t like hitting physical milestones until he is confident in his success. He had been eying these ladders throughout the fall and then today walked up to one like it was old hat. Must’ve been doing some climbing in his mind.

[californiagrown]

Where do you all sit on letting your toddler make their own decisions?

We have been permissive as long as it doesn’t affect safety and we are prepared to deal with the immediate consequences.

The contentious example is at the Winter Farmer’s market I let our 18 month old walk instead of using the stroller. His choice and when he gets tired I am fine with carrying him back to the car. He often helps me pick items at stands and if not he has to stand holding onto my leg or my hand. He follows the rules and so far hasn’t done anything to make me believe I can’t trust him in that setting.

Am I being foolish?

Some Sugarhouse Park stoke. My boy doesn’t like hitting physical milestones until he is confident in his success. He had been eying these ladders throughout the fall and then today walked up to one like it was old hat. Must’ve been doing some climbing in his mind.

My take: give em rope, not enough to hang themselves, but enough to give the neck a good stretch and ropeburn. Life is all about consequences and the sooner my 2 yr old learns the consequences for certain actions, the quicker he starts making better decisions. I support "controlled failure" where i allow him to fail, but i just cushion the consequences a bit... E.g. when he wanders away at a park i dont immediatley come running when i see he is looking for me, i let him find his way back and then reiterate why he needs to stay within sight/close by. Or when he falls off a ladder at the playground when im spotting him, i let him hit the ground in a controlled manner so he gets a little hurt but no possible way injured, and then discuss why he fell.

Basically i allow my kid a lot of leeway to explore, learn and fail while keeping a very close eye on him to make sure that his fails arent too harsh/traumatic. Not being afraid to fail, and learning from failures are incredibly important traits to instill in a child, IMO.

[anotherVTskibum]

My take: give em rope, not enough to hang themselves, but enough to give the neck a good stretch and ropeburn. Life is all about consequences and the sooner my 2 yr old learns the consequences for certain actions, the quicker he starts making better decisions. I support "controlled failure" where i allow him to fail, but i just cushion the consequences a bit... E.g. when he wanders away at a park i dont immediatley come running when i see he is looking for me, i let him find his way back and then reiterate why he needs to stay within sight/close by. Or when he falls off a ladder at the playground when im spotting him, i let him hit the ground in a controlled manner so he gets a little hurt but no possible way injured, and then discuss why he fell.

Basically i allow my kid a lot of leeway to explore, learn and fail while keeping a very close eye on him to make sure that his fails arent too harsh/traumatic. Not being afraid to fail, and learning from failures are incredibly important traits to instill in a child, IMO.

I really, really like that explanation, and it closely matches my own philosophy. The sooner they start feeling natural consequences, the better--most toddler behavior is low-risk in the larger scheme of things, and failing small is a great way to learn before you end up in a situation where failure has bigger consequences.

I also find that letting them have more opportunities to make some decisions seems to give more weight to it when I actually yell "NO" or "STOP" at them (usually as I'm running towards one of them who has found a risk I didn't fully anticipate).

[alpinevibes]

My take: give em rope, not enough to hang themselves, but enough to give the neck a good stretch and ropeburn. Life is all about consequences and the sooner my 2 yr old learns the consequences for certain actions, the quicker he starts making better decisions. I support "controlled failure" where i allow him to fail, but i just cushion the consequences a bit... E.g. when he wanders away at a park i dont immediatley come running when i see he is looking for me, i let him find his way back and then reiterate why he needs to stay within sight/close by. Or when he falls off a ladder at the playground when im spotting him, i let him hit the ground in a controlled manner so he gets a little hurt but no possible way injured, and then discuss why he fell.

Basically i allow my kid a lot of leeway to explore, learn and fail while keeping a very close eye on him to make sure that his fails arent too harsh/traumatic. Not being afraid to fail, and learning from failures are incredibly important traits to instill in a child, IMO.

Yes

[Buzzworthy]

Where do you all sit on letting your toddler make their own decisions?

We have been permissive as long as it doesn’t affect safety and we are prepared to deal with the immediate consequences.

The contentious example is at the Winter Farmer’s market I let our 18 month old walk instead of using the stroller. His choice and when he gets tired I am fine with carrying him back to the car. He often helps me pick items at stands and if not he has to stand holding onto my leg or my hand. He follows the rules and so far hasn’t done anything to make me believe I can’t trust him in that setting.

Am I being foolish?

Some Sugarhouse Park stoke. My boy doesn’t like hitting physical milestones until he is confident in his success. He had been eying these ladders throughout the fall and then today walked up to one like it was old hat. Must’ve been doing some climbing in his mind.

Little H knows what’s up. Keep that shit going dad.

[alias_rice]

Rad to see those skis still in use. My oldest son, who they were used by first, is competing in his first big mtn comp as a U12 at the Bird next weekend.



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How’d the kid do last weekend?

[muted reborn]

Where do you all sit on letting your toddler make their own decisions?

We have been permissive as long as it doesn’t affect safety and we are prepared to deal with the immediate consequences.

The contentious example is at the Winter Farmer’s market I let our 18 month old walk instead of using the stroller. His choice and when he gets tired I am fine with carrying him back to the car. He often helps me pick items at stands and if not he has to stand holding onto my leg or my hand. He follows the rules and so far hasn’t done anything to make me believe I can’t trust him in that setting.

Am I being foolish?

Some Sugarhouse Park stoke. My boy doesn’t like hitting physical milestones until he is confident in his success. He had been eying these ladders throughout the fall and then today walked up to one like it was old hat. Must’ve been doing some climbing in his mind.

IMO you are wayyyyyy over thinking this.

[Touring_Sedan]

IMO you are wayyyyyy over thinking this.

You overthink the first one. The second one might as well be feral.

[riser4]

You overthink the first one. The second one might as well be feral.

2nd is balanced. 3rd is feral.

[Adolf Allerbush]

I posted about "red shirting" kids a few months ago since the community I live in has several examples of this, essentially kids being held back so they can be the biggest in their class and have an advantage in sport. This year, we had a boy in my son's class start school (6th grade) and about two months into the year the parents pulled him out of school to home school instead, for what seemed like no reason. Ask my son if the kid in question was struggling in school and he says "no". Turns out the kid in question has a spring birthday, I think early May or late April, so his folks pulled him out so he could repeat 6th grade next year and be one of, if not the, oldest in the class for sport. Is it me or does that seem insane? It's not like he's that young for his year and he was doing fine academically.

[alias_rice]

I posted about "red shirting" kids a few months ago since the community I live in has several examples of this, essentially kids being held back so they can be the biggest in their class and have an advantage in sport. This year, we had a boy in my son's class start school (6th grade) and about two months into the year the parents pulled him out of school to home school instead, for what seemed like no reason. Ask my son if the kid in question was struggling in school and he says "no". Turns out the kid in question has a spring birthday, I think early May or late April, so his folks pulled him out so he could repeat 6th grade next year and be one of, if not the, oldest in the class for sport. Is it me or does that seem insane? It's not like he's that young for his year and he was doing fine academically.

My 12 year old has 5 kids on his baseball team that are older than him but are a grade behind. I get asked all the time why we started him on time and didn’t hold him back. Not going to say I have never second guessed it, especially since it’s basically standard now if a kid’s birthday is within 4 months of the cutoff. But I think long term, it’s still better to get done with school on time.

[fatnslow]

My oldest kid is a mid August kid so we started him late in school due to the fact he was a first kid that didn't socialize all that much and after the first year of preschool it was abundantly clear he just wasn't ready. In terms of sports he definitely benefited from being on the older end of his school year but it was never even thought of when we held him back in preschool. It does make me laugh when I see families where both mom and dad are 5' 7" and unathletic think their kid is going to play college sports cause they pay $$$ for training and club team while not making varsity until senior year.

[schuss]

Almost all the kids in our public school are held back and it's slightly infuriating as a parent that has to deal with their kids being super glum on being shorter than others or less experienced on stuff. They'll get through it, but it also sets weird expectations where my boy will struggle with behavior expectations set on the girls that are a year and a half older.

[anotherVTskibum]

I posted about "red shirting" kids a few months ago since the community I live in has several examples of this, essentially kids being held back so they can be the biggest in their class and have an advantage in sport. This year, we had a boy in my son's class start school (6th grade) and about two months into the year the parents pulled him out of school to home school instead, for what seemed like no reason. Ask my son if the kid in question was struggling in school and he says "no". Turns out the kid in question has a spring birthday, I think early May or late April, so his folks pulled him out so he could repeat 6th grade next year and be one of, if not the, oldest in the class for sport. Is it me or does that seem insane? It's not like he's that young for his year and he was doing fine academically.

There's a statistically clear link between birth quarter and athletic accomplishment in ski racing; I don't know if the data is as clear in other sports. So if your athletic program is based on academic year rather than birth year, starting a year older probably provides an advantage. I wouldn't think it would be a good *reason* to make that decision, but I expect it would be backed by data if you were most concerned about athletic accomplishment in school.

Ski racing is based on birth year, not academic year, so you just need to keep that in mind when making babies if that's what you want to optimize for. If parents are trying to game school athletics by holding kids back, I wonder if high school athletics might start looking more closely at year of birth rather than academic enrollment year.

[californiagrown]

I posted about "red shirting" kids

My boys birthday is in september so he pretty naturally gets redshirted. That said, we would have redshirted him if he was born April or later- Myself and my father were both late in maturing physically (think college) and both myself and my wife have strong scholarship level athletic backgrounds so it makes sense to give junior a little extra time to mature. We would have just started him late into kindergarden as i think it really weird to hold a kid back after they have started school and made friends.

For some kids an extra year can mean a world of difference both physically and emotionally, while for others its really not all that beneficial. Depends on the kid.

[MarcusBrody]

I posted about "red shirting" kids a few months ago since the community I live in has several examples of this, essentially kids being held back so they can be the biggest in their class and have an advantage in sport. This year, we had a boy in my son's class start school (6th grade) and about two months into the year the parents pulled him out of school to home school instead, for what seemed like no reason. Ask my son if the kid in question was struggling in school and he says "no". Turns out the kid in question has a spring birthday, I think early May or late April, so his folks pulled him out so he could repeat 6th grade next year and be one of, if not the, oldest in the class for sport. Is it me or does that seem insane? It's not like he's that young for his year and he was doing fine academically.

I think it's somewhat insane. Very few kids seem to be held out where I am now, but I think it's partially that no one has coherent plans for the future. ha

My son is an early May birthday (and was born well before his due date). I was a late June birthday and was held back until I was six. There was some cognitive testing there, but my mom just didn't believe that boys were ready to go to school at five. She held out my little brother who was a May birthday as well (and was likely better equipped than I was to go to school). We sent my son to kindergarten at 5 and I think it was the right choice for him. He's thriving academically and socially and the current worry is our pretty bad school district not providing enough challenge, rather than too much. I did a lot of research on the academic literature on school start ages and it seems to even out pretty quickly in reading and academic performance, so I decided that I'm not worried. But it's an individual thing. I - who I humbly believe to be a very smart person - wasn't particularly great at kindergarten or first grade and only really took off in second when I was fully 8. It probably wouldn't have been ideal for me to go to school at 5, whereas it was apparently good for my son

On the other hand, there is good literature that relative age does have a strong benefit for sports. I'm sure I benefited, especially around middle school when I was growing/becoming more coordinated after growing. My son won't have that advantage. At the same time, his current favorite sport is soccer, which both privileges height a bit less and if he wants to really go far, he'll probably eventually have to join a club which is year of birth based. And if he just wants to have fun with it, who cares? He seems like he'll be good enough to make teams and play, so I'm not too worried about jockeying for college recruitment.

[bfree]

Wow, I'd never heard of parents doing that intentionally for athletic reasons. My oldest was born in June, but I won't even consider it. I don't have any illusions of him being a highly competitive athlete (coming from modestly athletic parents but nowhere near collegiate level, and average size). He can't wait to be able to ride a bus and go to school, and he seems to be pretty smart, so I'd worry he wouldn't be challenged enough in class if he were to be held back. Plus, the daycare bills need to go away.

[Danno]

It does make me laugh when I see families where both mom and dad are 5' 7" and unathletic think their kid is going to play college sports cause they pay $$$ for training and club team while not making varsity until senior year.

My kid has hudge confidence, and informed me that she was going to get a scholarship to play soccer at Stanford. When I told her that there was literally zero chance that was going to happen, she got mad at me. But I know her parents and the gene pool she comes from.

[riser4]

AAU looks at birth year. Which made for some interesting changes in lineup between the school teams and AAU teams. Glad my kid has aged out and is in College where basketball is something he does purely for fun at the intramural level or pickup.

[Danno]

AAU looks at birth year. Which made for some interesting changes in lineup between the school teams and AAU teams. Glad my kid has aged out and is in College where basketball is something he does purely for fun at the intramural level or pickup.

IME, all club sports do it by birth year. Even if the schools do it differently. My kid ski raced and those were in the "U" classifications, e.g. U10 was all the kids who were under 10 as of 12/31/YEAR. Soccer is organized the same way.

[alias_rice]

My kid has hudge confidence, and informed me that she was going to get a scholarship to play soccer at Stanford. When I told her that there was literally zero chance that was going to happen, she got mad at me. But I know her parents and the gene pool she comes from.

Sounds like the same chat I had with my kid about being a professional baseball player last year. It's the same chat my parents had with me when I was that age. The problem now a days is that it seems like as many parents hold these delusions as kids. I know at least a half dozen parents in my very small baseball realm that are convinced little Johnny will be the next Shohei.

My thought about holding kids back so they can be bigger, is that it can be a double edge sword. Yeah, they are bigger and stronger, but the little guys have to work twice as hard to keep up. And eventually they will also mature and then they know how to work harder. There was actually a study done a while back where they looked into physical maturity with high level youth soccer players. It's been a while since I read about it, so the details are a little fuzzy. But basically they measured a bunch of 14 year old soccer players' physical maturity and then tracked them over the next decade. At 14, the majority of the players were more physically mature than the average 14 year old, but the smaller kids that could still hang at 14, had a much higher likelihood of playing at the college level.

[fatnslow]

Sounds like the same chat I had with my kid about being a professional baseball player last year. It's the same chat my parents had with me when I was that age. The problem now a days is that it seems like as many parents hold these delusions as kids. I know at least a half dozen parents in my very small baseball realm that are convinced little Johnny will be the next Shohei.

My thought about holding kids back so they can be bigger, is that it can be a double edge sword. Yeah, they are bigger and stronger, but the little guys have to work twice as hard to keep up. And eventually they will also mature and then they know how to work harder. There was actually a study done a while back where they looked into physical maturity with high level youth soccer players. It's been a while since I read about it, so the details are a little fuzzy. But basically they measured a bunch of 14 year old soccer players' physical maturity and then tracked them over the next decade. At 14, the majority of the players were more physically mature than the average 14 year old, but the smaller kids that could still hang at 14, had a much higher likelihood of playing at the college level.

Had a funny 30 second talk with my oldest end of his junior year in high school. He was a very good high school baseball player and I asked him what do you want to do after high school with the sport ? He answered, "if i keep playing I want to be D1". I looked at him straight in the eye and told him, " I guess you're not playing after high school". His response was, " yeah, I know".

I breathed a sigh of relief knowing I didn't have to have him play at some POS JC somewhere trying to get a chance at another POS overpriced no name D3 team with no financial assistance.

[Timberridge]

You guys are dream killers.

[alpinevibes]

My twins were born on 8/29 and are two days before the cutoff for our school. This whole debate has been a big topic for the last year but especially now as we have to decide if they're going to move on to Kindergarten with their current, predominantly older cohort (where they are 5mo younger than the next youngest kid) or stay back for another year of PreK. We've been pretty firmly in the "hold" camp but their teachers feel they're academically ready to move on, so that adds to the dilemma. I'm not really concerned about their academic prep at this point, nor do I care about their athletic advantage, but I want them to be the most adjusted, emotionally ready and socially capable as they move forward later in their school career. I don't want to send them on, only to have one or both needing to repeat a year past PreK and I'm honestly pretty into having my kids around home for an "extra" year.

That said, I work at a school [where they attend] and see both sides of the argument and the resounding feedback from talking to dozens of parents who've been in this position, as well as teachers and support teachers is to have them wait. As our friend, a 2nd grade teacher, said: we never see kids and say "wow, he's really overly prepared for 2nd grade, but we regularly see kids who just weren't ready to move forward."