Official Sprocket Rockets Training Thread

[smmokan]

From a fairly uneducated 40+ guy that's merely guessing based on everything I've watched and read lately: more long/slow zone-2 rides and lift weights regularly. Hot yoga isn't doing the same thing for your body- in the way you want to use it- as a good lifting program.

[climberevan]

The other thread offers a lot of advice. The main thing I've noticed is that I can't recover like I used to. Good, consistent sleep is the biggest key, along with minimal alcohol.

270mins of hot yoga a week sounds pretty rough--are you staying hydrated? That has to be cutting into training time as well... Yoga won't make you fast on the bike. If time is a big factor, I suspect apportioning the yoga time to riding and weight training will be more effective.

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=328980

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

The most surprising thing with the hot yoga (my GF has been at it for 13 years now......she used to go 6 or 7 days a week!) is the amount of time spent in Zone 2. It's incredible. It's not flow. Lots of static poses. Tons of stretching. I am gaining a ton more flexibility and my cardio/breathing has shown improvement.

That said, it's certainly not a replacement for the weight training I was doing the last few winters. I had a sweet deal training with some high level enduro guys and access to a sick gym and haven't heard anything about it this winter. Might just have to get my own program going.

[Dantheman]

Yeah, 3-4 hours of hot yoga per week is doing you no favors. That is a huge number of training hours providing little tangible benefit towards your goals. Flexibility/mobility is important, but you can get enough in a fairly relaxed 15-20 minute session while watching TV in your living room. You will be much better off spending those hours pedaling and lifting. Yoga Z2 is not the same pedaling Z2.

Alpine skiing sure as hell counts as exercise. It may not count as endurance training, but it's hard exercise that has a high recovery demand.

All your stress counts, so if you're under a lot of non-training general work/life stress that's also going to eat into your recovery capacity.

You said you're eating better than ever. Are you tracking calories and/or have you spent enough time food tracking in the past to accurately estimate your calorie and protein intake? People are notoriously terrible at this. Protein requirements go up with age. You need to be consistently hitting 0.8-1 g/lb/day, which is harder than it sounds.

Finally, just MVHO, every serious athlete should be taking creatine and beta alanine daily.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

The most surprising thing with the hot yoga (my GF has been at it for 13 years now......she used to go 6 or 7 days a week!) is the amount of time spent in Zone 2. It's incredible. It's not flow. Lots of static poses. Tons of stretching. I am gaining a ton more flexibility and my cardio/breathing has shown improvement.

That said, it's certainly not a replacement for the weight training I was doing the last few winters. I had a sweet deal training with some high level enduro guys and access to a sick gym and haven't heard anything about it this winter. Might just have to get my own program going.

Edit: I wrote this up before seeing DTMs post.

I need to track my calorie/protein intake for sure. What app do you guys use for this? I have recently had to modify my diet a bit due to a flare up of gallbladder pain. It hasn't really bothered me in years, but holiday bacon and birthday wagyu steak etc etc. I upped my fruit/veggie/fiber intake tremendously. Trying to supplement with collagen peptides for protein, but am still probably deficient.

[PeachesNCream]

Trying to supplement with collagen peptides for protein, but am still probably deficient.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but collagen doesn’t really count as protein from a muscle recovery standpoint. Yes, it says protein on the container but it’s an incomplete protein so it doesn’t really aid in building/preserving muscle

Also to reiterate what dtm said, take a look at your total exercise/stress. Hot yoga and skiing definitely are exercise/stress. If your goals are to be fast on a bike, maybe dial back those stressors and dial up exercise that make you fast on a bike, like more hours on a bike, lifting, etc. I’ve found that I’m very sensitive to overstressing so I’ve really had to dial this in.


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[Dantheman]

I need to track my calorie/protein intake for sure. What app do you guys use for this? I have recently had to modify my diet a bit due to a flare up of gallbladder pain. It hasn't really bothered me in years, but holiday bacon and birthday wagyu steak etc etc. I upped my fruit/veggie/fiber intake tremendously. Trying to supplement with collagen peptides for protein, but am still probably deficient.

Best app is Carbon, hands down.

I recommend that everyone in the 40+ club supplement with collagen peptides for joint, connective tissue, and skin health. However, even though it's technically protein, collagen kinda doesn't count for your overall protein intake. Collagen is super low in the amino acid leucine, which is basically *the* signaling molecule that stimulates muscle protein synthesis in response to protein intake (lysine and methionine also play a role, but leucine signaling dominates). Most non-animal protein also kinda doesn't count for the same reason. Unless you're taking powdered veggie protein isolates (soy, pea, hemp, etc.) "protein" means meat, whey, and eggs or egg whites (the kind in a box, don't eat raw egg whites from whole eggs, you'll develop biotin deficiency).

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

^^^ very good to know. Was actually gonna pick up egg whites in the carton today as I miss morning eggs.

[PeachesNCream]

egg whites (the kind in a box, don't eat raw egg whites from whole eggs, you'll develop biotin deficiency).

Can you explain this? So you’re saying raw egg whites from a box are okay but raw egg whites from an egg aren’t? I thought raw eggs in general were kind of a risky maneuver. Do they treat the boxed stuff?


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[Dantheman]

Boxed stuff is pasteurized, totally fine to consume raw in a smoothie or whatever. The brand I get (Costco) is so tasteless I just drink it straight sometimes.

[PeachesNCream]

Boxed stuff is pasteurized, totally fine to consume raw in a smoothie or whatever. The brand I get (Costco) is so tasteless I just drink it straight sometimes.

That’s a great real food protein hack


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[climberevan]

All your stress counts, so if you're under a lot of non-training general work/life stress that's also going to eat into your recovery capacity.
.

This bears repeating. I suspect that some of what people perceive to be lower capacity as we age is actually the increase in "other" life stresses. Adult responsibilities and stresses require recovery energy, and decrease the training load we can handle. That combo results in lower fitness.

Ofc some of the changes are simply physiology, but I bet that is a 45yo could hold the same no fucks attitude that he had at 25, and didn't have to worry about a job/business/kids/house/investments/partner/etc, he could be very nearly as fit.

[basinbeater]

Joining the discussion. I've paid some attention to this thread, been listening a bit to the fast talk labs podcast, and a few weeks ago got started on a structured training plan. My goal is to ride the Ruby Roubaix on June 22. The full 117 mi. I want to do the hobble creek 57 miler May 11. I toyed around with using trainer road, and did some zwift workouts, but I settled on the Garmin gran fondo plan, with 5 days a week of workouts. The early block has lots of zone 2 base building with a couple intensity/interval sessions per week.
I raced MTB in my youth in the early 90s and loved it. I was spotty riding in the 2010s but really got going again a few years ago on the MTB. I picked up a road bike a couple years ago, and have really enjoyed it.
So, plan is this.
Goal: Ruby Roubaix 117 big route.
Plan to get there: Garmin gran fondo training plan. Should wrap up right about the time of the planned event.
Test event May 11 Hobble Creek 57mi.
I also play old fart hockey on Sunday nights and lift weights to support that.
At 46 years old, I find that for the last couple of years, I've been in the best shape I've been in in a long time, and I am more excited about riding bikes than I have been in a long time.
Anyway,
/endblog.

Happy to hear feedback, if I should flesh out my plan with more details now, or as the event gets closer. And as I learn, share my experience with this (vastly) more knowledgeable group.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Seems like you've got the training part covered unless you have specific questions/needs (I'm not familiar with your plan).

Do you feel good about fueling strategy? If it helps, there's great info in this thread + at first glance this new article seems to have some good info.

[Dantheman]

Sounds like a solid plan to me. I'll second the fueling strategy suggestion. Also, for a ride this long and this style (looks like a lot of the miles will be relatively flat and fast), I'd put some effort into optimizing your aerodynamics and drivetrain efficiency on race day. The number of watts saved can be staggering, which could result in a huge difference in your finish time or even avoiding a DNF.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

I tired for so long to avoid wearing a hydration pack just cause after years of dislking them mtn biking back in the day I hated the idea of going back to them. But not stopping at races has kind of become the norm + saving a few watts and I've now got a new USWE pack ready for next year.

[basinbeater]

Thanks for the links. I'll dig into them. I do not have my fueling figured out. I started doing sugar water for longer rides based on reading this thread, and I always carry some fig bars in my pocket and gummy bears, and Clif bars. I try to start eating 40 minutes in if I know its gonna be a long ride.
Gotta work on that stuff. Anybody want to go do the event with me?

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Looks like a really cool race. Sounds very similar in terrain to the Dead Swede, in case you need another tune-up race on the calendar.

For fueling - sounds like you've got a good start. A race day plan to get 80g of carbs (or more) an hour from drinks + gel/blocks/waffles/whatever you like will leave you in great shape.

[XtrPickels]

Can you explain this? So you’re saying raw egg whites from a box are okay but raw egg whites from an egg aren’t? I thought raw eggs in general were kind of a risky maneuver. Do they treat the boxed stuff?


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Raw Egg whites contain "Avidin" which is a protein that binds the B-vitamin Biotin.
Cooking eggs denatures this protein which prevents the bonding and the deficiency.

Pasteurization is questionable. Some proteins are pasteurized and say there is no issue with biotin, others say to supplement.
I look for proteins that specifically mention the avidin is deactivated and that supplementation is not needed.

[XtrPickels]

A big considerations with aero-decisions is how they effect your heat management. Even aero-socks have a noticeable impact on me.

Aero is great for steady, fast, miles, but if you have long, slow, climbs in warm to hot weather, then a trade-off for better cooling may be worthwhile.

[dan_pdx]

I'm sure there's a discussion about protein supplements somewhere here, but my search-fu has failed me. Any recommendations?

I'm thinking I might not be getting quite enough: I'm usually vegan or veggie until dinner, which often (but not always) includes some chicken. I do eat about a cup of nuts most days, almonds and peanuts. I eat about a third cup of chickpeas most days, and some tofu here and there. Red meat maybe once or twice a month, same for fish. I've been lifting recently and doing more cycling than usual and not getting the gainz.

[climberevan]

I'm sure there's a discussion about protein supplements somewhere here, but my search-fu has failed me. Any recommendations?

I'm thinking I might not be getting quite enough: I'm usually vegan or veggie until dinner, which often (but not always) includes some chicken. I do eat about a cup of nuts most days, almonds and peanuts. I eat about a third cup of chickpeas most days, and some tofu here and there. Red meat maybe once or twice a month, same for fish. I've been lifting recently and doing more cycling than usual and not getting the gainz.

You should add it up (various online calculators will get you close enough). I'm very nearly vegetarian, and was getting a decent amount from dairy, eggs, and legumes. But it was still lower than the commonly recommended 18.8-2g/kg, so I supplement with 20-30g most days.

Whey is the easiest & best option IMO. I buy whatever is cheapest, which is the Costco Gold Standard when it's on sale.

Are you actually trying to gain weight? If so you'll have to run a significant calorie surplus, not just eat a little more protein. Muscle hypertrophy is counter-acted by a ton of endurance work (and the resultant calorie deficits), so you kind of need to periodize them.

In case anyone is tempted by the marketing: https://youtu.be/FBJGqzepcBc?si=TlQ044em0i3BVt8L

[dan_pdx]

Not gain weight in a significant way, but swap some fat for muscle. Thanks for the rec on whey protein, I'll look for that. I'm pretty lazy about trying to count macros, but I guess it would be good for me to do it for a few days just to get a general idea whether I'm really falling short

[PeachesNCream]

+1 on the whey protein. Easiest and usually cheapest way to get protein. Personally I don’t like ON whey, it’s full of sugar, flavoring, etc, it’s not healthy imo. I go for grass fed whey isolate. Whey isolate is easier in your stomach and more “pure”, less lactose. Grass fed is healthier for the cow, and I think that translates to healthier whey, even if we can’t point to it in the nutritional facts. Plus grass fed cows are happy cows. Kono nutrition is my favorite.

[Dantheman]

I use BulkSupplements Whey Isolate, which is just straight unflavored whey that I mix into other stuff.