To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[neufox47]

Try to speak regarding topics I can add value to. Occasionally come to get info that already exists. Skiing is not my expertise though I do thoroughly enjoy it. Medicine is a topic I have expertise in and in which I can add value.

You don’t need expertise to opine in these parts.

We could use some more intelligent posters though.

[Danno]

We're supposed to add value?

Fuck.

[MTT]

I don't have a pic of my injection but this is the handout they gave me for the CDC app to follow an reactions and of info.

Got my vaccine on Thursday with little more than a soar arm at the injection site. 750 of us the first two days at my little community hospital. I will tell you there will be likely 95% volunteers for this here because we are all tired of the anxiety of feeling like we are next or will pass it on to family.

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How long before you are deemed vacinated?
It's 21 days for the second shot and then your good 10 days after that. Correct?

[EmDoc80]

How long before you are deemed vacinated?
It's 21 days for the second shot and then your good 10 days after that. Correct?

That is correct based on when antibodies were detected in the study group, however, we do not know for sure. That is just best guess based on the evidence currently available.

The moderna vaccine is even longer. 28 days between vaccine and booster, then 7-10 days from that for immunity.

[EmDoc80]

I don't think you're going to fit in here. But welcome!

Ugh, thanks!? Should fit in ok. I was meant to be a ski bum just stumbled into this medicine thing and have too many kids to quit now.

[prsboogie]

They told us 21 and 21 -so just under a month and a half for 95% efficiency. Still have to wear all the PPE though since you can still carry and spread without it. Our ID Doc is thinking early 2022 before we will be able to reduce the mask use, that is as long as the majority of the populous steps up and gets vaccinated.

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[nest]

https://www.nejm.org/na101/home/lite...034577_f3.jpeg

12ish days after first shot looks to be when immunity ramps up.

[bennymac]

Ugh, thanks!? Should fit in ok. I was meant to be a ski bum just stumbled into this medicine thing and have too many kids to quit now.

Sorry but you’re overqualified.

Reference puregravity’s posts if you want to see what level we’re generally at.

[huckbucket]

https://www.nejm.org/na101/home/lite...034577_f3.jpeg

12ish days after first shot looks to be when immunity ramps up.

^^
This guy gets it

[old goat]

Still have to wear all the PPE though since you can still carry and spread without it.

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Did I miss something? My understanding is that whether vaccines protect against asymptomatic infections and transmission is unknown. Apparently there is some evidence that the Moderna vaccine MIGHT protect against them.https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...-covid-vaccine If it does it is likely that Pfizer's vaccine does as well, but that would have to be separately proven. Even if they do protect I do agree that masks and PPE should be worn by HCW's and masks by the public--neither vaccine is 100% effective and as a public health measure mask wearing is much more effective if it is and is perceived to be universal. And I have no desire to find myself in a store with a maskless 20 something claiming to be vaccinated.

As I mentioned before there is at least one inhaled vaccine somewhere in the testing stage that might more directly address the asymptomatic transmission issue. If successful and if there is significant endemic spread I could see people getting both vaccinea. In the 50's the Salk oral polio vaccine was given to people who had already had the injectable Salk vaccine. We lined up in the school gym for the Sabin.

I was listening today on NPR about the guys who figured out how to get mRNA to produce stable spike proteins--previously isolated spike proteins would not maintain their shape. (The physical shape of proteins is important to their function.) They were working on MERS. They submitted to every journal they could think of were rejected by all of them. When Covid came around someone they had known remembered their work and the rest is history (or will be history in the future).

[neufox47]

Interesting about the mRNA protein scientists. Sounds like the Nobel in medicine is coming their way.


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[prsboogie]

Did I miss something? My understanding is that whether vaccines protect against asymptomatic infections and transmission is unknown. Apparently there is some evidence that the Moderna vaccine MIGHT protect against them.https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...-covid-vaccine If it does it is likely that Pfizer's vaccine does as well, but that would have to be separately proven. Even if they do protect I do agree that masks and PPE should be worn by HCW's and masks by the public--neither vaccine is 100% effective and as a public health measure mask wearing is much more effective if it is and is perceived to be universal. And I have no desire to find myself in a store with a maskless 20 something claiming to be vaccinated

I don't think your missed anything. I believe he was assuming there will be a portion that will not vaccinate and remain susceptible. And yes nothing is 100%. He was also probably trying to lower the expectations that we would be able to stop wearing masks at work for the general patient population which had been discussed during our conversation.

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[ötzi]

Still have to wear all the PPE though since you can still carry and spread without it.

I don't really understand this part - how can you carry the virus if you have immunity? Wouldn't an immune person be by definition virus-free? I can see that an immune person could get exposed and there might be a window where the virus exists between that exposure and when the immune system counteracts it, is that what you're talking about?

edit: note to self: read to the end, then post

[prsboogie]

I don't really understand this part - how can you carry the virus if you have immunity? Wouldn't an immune person be by definition virus-free? I can see that an immune person could get exposed and there might be a window where the virus exists between that exposure and when the immune system counteracts it, is that what you're talking about?

edit: note to self: read to the end, then post

Lol'd- there is just a lot of uncertainty and variables with all this.

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[TNKen]

Wife unit got blasted this morning at 6:45. So far, only mild hallucinations.

Saw this on one of my gun boards.

[RootSkier]

Based on the ER docs I know--more likely too busy skiing and climbing to post.

I don't even know how ER docs fit in the skiing between the overseas vacations.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Was able to get the Pfizer vaccine after skiing this morning. They have a list at the hospital but there are a lot of no shows. My woman is a pharmacist and she texted me they were taking a few walk ins. So far so good. Hope in six weeks I can feel a little safer at work dealing with COVID patients and unknowns.


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[old goat]

Otzi--people harbor bacteria and viruses in lots of places, but especially nose and throat and intestinal tract. The bacteria can live and replicate there without harming the host or they can penetrate the lining and infect and harm the host. An injectable vaccine can theoretically not reach or produce immunity in the cells lining the nose, throat, or intestine, so the virus in question can live there despite the vaccine and eventually be spread to other people. The vaccine does produce immunity that keeps the virus from spreading beyond the nose, throat, or gut. So in the case of Covid--a vaccine could potentially allow the virus to live in the nose and be spread from there to another person, but not get any deeper in the host and make them sick. Does that make sense?

[PB]

Was able to get the Pfizer vaccine after skiing this morning. They have a list at the hospital but there are a lot of no shows. My woman is a pharmacist and she texted me they were taking a few walk ins. So far so good. Hope in six weeks I can feel a little safer at work dealing with COVID patients and unknowns.


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Glad to hear you got shot; you might have some 'splainin' to do tonight when you get home, however ......."my woman"???

[Sweetbippy]

Glad to hear you got shot; you might have some 'splainin' to do tonight when you get home, however ......."my woman"???

At least MU didn’t say his “little woman.”

And for the record...said “woman” was a guinea pig for Pfizer. [emoji1360]


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[skinny_kid]

Got part one of the Pfizer vaccine last Wednesday. Nothing of note so far. We will see once round two happens.

[ötzi]

Otzi--people harbor bacteria and viruses in lots of places, but especially nose and throat and intestinal tract. The bacteria can live and replicate there without harming the host or they can penetrate the lining and infect and harm the host. An injectable vaccine can theoretically not reach or produce immunity in the cells lining the nose, throat, or intestine, so the virus in question can live there despite the vaccine and eventually be spread to other people. The vaccine does produce immunity that keeps the virus from spreading beyond the nose, throat, or gut. So in the case of Covid--a vaccine could potentially allow the virus to live in the nose and be spread from there to another person, but not get any deeper in the host and make them sick. Does that make sense?

I mean, it holds together, it's not gibberish. I guess I would wonder how long a virus can remain viable in such a situation but I'm sure it varies.

[highangle]

Wife unit got blasted this morning at 6:45. So far, only mild hallucinations.

Saw this on one of my gun boards.

[old goat]

I mean, it holds together, it's not gibberish. I guess I would wonder how long a virus can remain viable in such a situation but I'm sure it varies.

I don't know the answer, but this article might. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3760236/
I just glanced at it briefly.

I should have told you to look it up. That's what I did with my residents when they asked me questions I didn't know the answer to. Important with residents to never display ignorance, regardless of how ignorant you actually are.

I believe in most cases the immune system in the upper respiratory tract clears the coronavirus in a week or so--hence the recommended period of isolation for people who test positive. Maybe there are chronic carriers who shed virus for a long time; I haven't read about that one way or the other.

One example from the bacterial world is MRSA--methicillin resistant staph. Some people carry this bacterium in their noses and if they are HCW's can infect their patients while never getting infected themselves. Or they can remain asymptomatic until they have some other health event like an operation and the bacteria in their noses infect their incisions or their lungs. When HCW's or patients are identified as MRSA carriers they are sometimes given an antibiotic nasal ointment to get rid of it.

[TNKen]

^^^^ Nice