Stiff pivot binding, best way to fix?

[grapedrink]

I have a 15 year old pair of P15's and the heel hinge has gotten really stiff, didn't ski them for a couple of years. When I put my heel down, it doesn't snap in.. there's a lot of friction/resistance moving it up and down just with my hands. I haven't skied on them because I'm not sure they would release properly if I can't get them on without pulling up on the heel pieces with my hands. Do they have to be dismantled and cleaned? Or is there a particular of lube that's needed for ski bindings?

[gwat]

Yep, pull the heel apart, clean the inside and regrease the bushing interface. Bindings will be snappy like new.

Trickiest part is removing the roll pin that secures the plastic cover. I've had luck screwing a small screw into the roll pin and pulling it out with pliers. Older bindings don't have the roll pin so you may get to skip this step. Then unscrew the DIN screw until you feel it putting resistance against the plastic cover. At this point pry the plastic cover over the tabs holding it in place, then fully unscrew the DIN screw. Voila, your heel piece will be in pieces. Take care not to snap the black plastic ring holding the DIN indicator in place.

If your heels are sticky you should probably clean/grease the toes while you're at it.

[gwat]

[grapedrink]

awesome thanks i'll give it a try and hope i don't break anything

[skiwithcharlie]

I find a couple drops of Triflow down the guts really helps loosen the heel pivot point after cleaning the inside as good as you can of course. Then grease the spring assembly and threads and reassemble!

[grapedrink]

I find a couple drops of Triflow down the guts really helps loosen the heel pivot point after cleaning the inside as good as you can of course. Then grease the spring assembly and threads and reassemble!

i'm finally getting around to doing this, any particular grease that's recommended for this?

[phatboy64]

I believe white lithium grease should work fine...

[1000-oaks]

G3 sells plastic-safe binding grease, not sure where they buy it and slap a G3 label on it.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

Well this was timely. I have a couple pairs of 155's with same issue.

If you don't want to have a bunch of different greases around and want one that is plastic safe, easily sourced and good for a huge range of uses: Bel-Ray waterproof. It's even good for Igus bushings (for you guys that have those in your AT boot ankle pivots or bike suspension pivots).

To do the toe is just simply winding out the din screw, yes?

[gwat]

I am no grease expert but I’ve always used white lithium with no issues. Plastic safe from what I’ve read (although plastic compatibility really isn’t an issue with P18s..).

Toes are pretty straightforward, some tips in post#6 here: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...870&highlight=

If your heels need greasing your toes are due for it too...and vice versa.

[spudbumkin]

I have had success using silicone based grease. Doesn't damage plastic and is cold and heat tolerant. I buy mine at NAPA and a tube lasts me years.

[waxoff]

Jumping in straight from the Vipec thread with an echo. Another plastic compatible grease, dunno if available in the US though.

[grapedrink]

Someone should do an fks/pivot/turntable greasing tutorial and put it on youtube

[FlimFlamvanHam]

Just posting my experience as I just did a couple old pairs of 155's. I am always amazed at the consistency of the stock "lube" on these old bindings. It's more of an assembly paste. No, more of an assembly glue.

OK, so the little roll pin...I don't know how Gwat has ever successfully removed one of those because to do so you need to thread something into it which expands it further which is not what one wants when trying to pull it through the smaller plastic hole on the dildo cover. It just mushrooms as I pull it and refuses to come out. I'd love to hear if others have been successful but I have discovered that it's pointless to try and remove it since you don't really need to.

What does work is to follow Gwat's instructions but just leave the roll pin alone (kinda).

- So back out the DIN screw till it meets resistance. This will actually cause the plastic cover to relax off the metal dildo a bit so you can get a flat blade or putty knife in the gap to pry up the bottom edges.

At this point I use a small flat blade driver to insert under the side of the cover where roll pin is and push up in and effort to get the roll pin to unseat from the dido. Whether this is actually needed or not I can't tell. I think just working the cover off causes the pin to pull out anyway.

- Once you've pried the bottom edges of the plastic cover up a bit go and back out the DIN screw (you should now find there are a couple more turns there) till it again meets resistance.

- Pry up the cover edges/sides again.

- Go back and wind out DIN screw. Again, that prying up of the cover sides will produce a bit of slack to allow you to wind it out further. And at this point you can probably wind it all the way out.

- The plastic cover will still be hanging on holding everything in place. Pry each corner up again while trying to push it off (no need to be too aggressive) and it should slide off with the (now likely slightly bent) roll pin in place. As Gwat says, be careful not to snap the DIN indicator as it's holding onto the DIN screw and if you have your plastic cover go flying off, the screw with indicator attached, cover, and DIN window will likely all separate on impact.

Push the roll pin out (from the underside) and it should pop right out. Straighten it out through whatever means for re-use or just toss it. I put all mine back in.

"Clean" and relube. Any white lithium grease is nothing like whatever Rossignol used in these things. I'm not a kook with lube so as long as it's grease and plastic safe I'm good. But with that said, lithium is obviously the base for lithium grease. It does not mix with calcium or aluminum base greases, so for that reason alone I suggest sticking with white lithium even if it not the crazy paste Rossi used. i say that because the original Rossi stuff is a white lithium and to actually clean all the original goop out would be impossible so I'd rather put in a grease that will blend with it.


Putting it back together is easier.

- Put DIN screw (with DIN indicator attached obviously) into hole in plastic cover as it would normally orient.

- With dildo horizontal and DIN spring back in, slide assembled cover into "first notch" on dildo. The cover has two tabs on each side that anchor into corresponding recesses in the dildo. With the DIN screw all the way out, the farthest in you can set the cover is into that first notch.

- Now turn dildo up horizontal and tighten the DIN screw. Turn till it feel like you are roughly at low end of DIN range then slide the cover all the way back into place. It should go pretty willingly. Tap the roll pin back in and set your DIN.

Mine actually feel exactly like they did before. Mine snap up fine, but the amount of force needed to push the heels down when existing is still too much. I have a pair of newer 18's that are like butter in that regard. But I've released out of the 155's when I've needed to so they must be ok. I hope.

[grapedrink]

thanks! i decided not to fuck with them but hopefully this helps someone else

[gwat]

Just here for a friendly reminder to grease your pivots if they are more than a few years old...

Factory stuff gets crusty and leads to excess release resistance.


WD40 works well to clean off the old gunk.


White grease is what I use.


Heels too. A big glob of grease on the plunger will get the grease down into the main bushing where it needs to be.

[Wes Mantooth]

Which specific grease? I have some pairs that are in need of this service


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[ntblanks]

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[gwat]

I use white lithium grease, others use silicone grease.
All the greasable parts are metal so plastic compatibility is not a concern.

*^edit to say there are a couple plastic parts in the bindings so plastic compatible grease is a good idea. The above greases are compatible AFAIK.

[toast2266]

I use white lithium grease, others use silicone grease.
All the greasable parts are metal so plastic compatibility is not a concern.

There are some plastic spacers and whatnot in there though. They're not the moving parts that needs grease, but I'd still avoid something that's gonna eat the plastic. But yeah, no issue with white lithium or silicone grease.

[gwat]

There are some plastic spacers and whatnot in there though.

True. 97% metal does not equal all metal.
The rod in the toe passes through one plastic bushing and the DIN cover acts as a washer.
In the heel the plastic caps under the adjustment arms are where excess grease would squeeze out.
So ya a plastic compatible grease would be ideal.

[Wes Mantooth]

True. 97% metal does not equal all metal.
The rod in the toe passes through one plastic bushing and the DIN cover acts as a washer.
In the heel the plastic caps under the adjustment arms are where excess grease would squeeze out.
So ya a plastic compatible grease would be ideal.

Isn’t white lithium fine with plastic? I’ve been advised to use it in certain spots on my truck where there’s plastic and metal like in the clutch pedal spring assembly

[J. Barron DeJong]

For what it’s worth, spyderjon posted some time ago that all binding manufacturers were using PG-75 grease. That’s a lithium grease (but not white lithium), with a mix of mineral and synthetic (PAO) oils, and an unspecified solid lubricant (PTFE?).

Can’t purchase it anywhere online from a quick search. Binding manufacturers list their own in their tech manuals but doesn’t show up to purchase online, so maybe talk to your shop.

You’re likely fine with a white lithium grease. Better if you can use one with some PAO oil (but maybe not other synthetic oils - some damage plastic) in it so it doesn’t thicken as much at cold temps (but a quick google search is not coming up with such a thing).

[duboix]

Trickiest part is removing the roll pin that secures the plastic cover. I've had luck screwing a small screw into the roll pin and pulling it out with pliers.

Don't pull the pin out - punch it in.

[Core Shot]

I use Phil woods. It’s my old school bike grease.
Lithium doesn’t seem to last for water exposure.

Ymmv