WASATCH STOKE, CONDITIONS, OBSERVATIONS and ASSORTED DRIVAL 20-21

[HammySlapwagons]

I might get a detail wrong here, but,
the permit to build and operate that lift required a permanently open gate.
Believe it was Pave our Canyons pressuring the F.S.
Tough hand dealt there.

Actually super helpful. Thanks for bringing that up.

[wasatch_carpetbagger]

Anyone know what the details are for the canyons lease from the FS? Curious if it would be possible for them to expand into that territory. Not that it would be desirable, but it wouldn't be unprecedented - similar to expansion into peak 7 of breck....

‘The Big One’- rescue, recovery | SummitDaily.com

[Phall]

Per onX top of 9990 isn’t on fs land, nor is the gate, it accesses FS land.


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[snowaddict91]

I agree with Mall Walker and unfortunately I think the Instagram Pic culture is here to stay.

Me and a buddy were just talking about this. All the 'gram shows is the stoke. It makes it look easy.

[altacoup]

I agree with Mall Walker and unfortunately I think the Instagram Pic culture is here to stay.

People been dying in that exact spot before the gram was ever created. It’s just a shitty set up. Be safe out there. Snow pack is crap and about to get worse with a big high pressure. Pent up powder panic will get real when it finally starts to snow

[lemonhead]

I know people have been getting buried there waaaay before the gram. I just think the pictures with location tags can give folks a false confidence and "beta" on a spot. I know when I was patroling at a now Ikoninc resort. A stupid magazine published an article and named an easily accessible out of bounds run and we regularly had tourons at the top shack asking us how to get there...

[brutah]

RIP to the victim. Always tragic and hopefully people will learn but that seems unlikely.

Anyone know what the details are for the canyons lease from the FS? Curious if it would be possible for them to expand into that territory. Not that it would be desirable, but it wouldn't be unprecedented - similar to expansion into peak 7 of breck....

‘The Big One’- rescue, recovery | SummitDaily.com

I'm not for closing the gate or regulating it. I also dont like the expansion talk from multiple standpoints:

1. First and foremost, Vail is a terrible steward of the land.

2. The public outrage would be immense. Where do you stop the expansion? Does Vail just get the whole ridgeline because it slides? You control dutches and then the next easy target is where the deaths start occurring. That whole ridgeline rips pretty good. You're just moving the target

3. Do you think Vail wants that responsibility? That's a lot more explosives and likely additional patrol hires to control the whole ridgeline and it's basically in their boundaries without them having to take responsibility for it already.

I don't wish anyone death in an avalanche but people can take responsibility for their actions. All actions have consequences, big and small.

It sucks this guy lost his life, I'm baffled as to how the Utah Avalanche center and Vail ski patrol could better warn people of the dangers out those gates. Even my 60 year old mom is aware of the avalanche danger at the moment.

[MultiVerse]

It sucks this guy lost his life, I'm baffled as to how the Utah Avalanche center and Vail ski patrol could better warn people of the dangers out those gates. Even my 60 year old mom is aware of the avalanche danger at the moment.

Local news had overhead helicopter video of the slide path with lots of ski tracks on either side in the frame. Unless they got the location wrong, I don't know how you convince some random person the terrain is unsafe when everyone else is apparently getting away with it, so to speak.

[Coño Frío]

Forecast for the Salt Lake Area Mountains
Issued by Drew Hardesty for Thursday, January 7, 2021

I suspect our luck will run out soon.

Avalanche conditions remain dangerous....

IF you are leaving the ski area at an exit gate, you are most likely stepping into a CONSIDERABLE avalanche hazard.


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[JKnight]

It's a shitty situation, but if push comes to shove, they could look at closing the gates and direct the backcountry traffic to exit the area lower on the hill. Skinning for an hour or so is still great access to that ridgeline. Throw a bone by expanding uphill access on that side of the resort. Not sure how that could work logistically via safe routes that avoid all the private homes.

Kind of ridiculous, but UAC/FS volunteers could be present to intercept all potential victims to check for avy gear and relay the hazard. Small talk such as, "How many children do you have?" and "Do you feel lucky, punk?" might be effective.

Then there's the whole State-run biathalon idea of a hunter safety like program applied to backcountry users. Blech!

RIP

[D-Roc]

RIP to the victim. Always tragic and hopefully people will learn but that seems unlikely.



I'm not for closing the gate or regulating it. I also dont like the expansion talk from multiple standpoints:

1. First and foremost, Vail is a terrible steward of the land.

2. The public outrage would be immense. Where do you stop the expansion? Does Vail just get the whole ridgeline because it slides? You control dutches and then the next easy target is where the deaths start occurring. That whole ridgeline rips pretty good. You're just moving the target

3. Do you think Vail wants that responsibility? That's a lot more explosives and likely additional patrol hires to control the whole ridgeline and it's basically in their boundaries without them having to take responsibility for it already.

I don't wish anyone death in an avalanche but people can take responsibility for their actions. All actions have consequences, big and small.

It sucks this guy lost his life, I'm baffled as to how the Utah Avalanche center and Vail ski patrol could better warn people of the dangers out those gates. Even my 60 year old mom is aware of the avalanche danger at the moment.

^This, agree 100%

As my AIARE 3 instructor said to me many years ago... "Not every bad decision has a bad outcome and not every good decision has a good outcome, some things boil down to luck"

RIP to the victim

[D-Roc]

Point 2 since I hit send too fast:

Rename to "Death's Draw"

[soul_skier]

RIP to the victim. Always tragic and hopefully people will learn but that seems unlikely.



I'm not for closing the gate or regulating it. I also dont like the expansion talk from multiple standpoints:

1. First and foremost, Vail is a terrible steward of the land.

2. The public outrage would be immense. Where do you stop the expansion? Does Vail just get the whole ridgeline because it slides? You control dutches and then the next easy target is where the deaths start occurring. That whole ridgeline rips pretty good. You're just moving the target

3. Do you think Vail wants that responsibility? That's a lot more explosives and likely additional patrol hires to control the whole ridgeline and it's basically in their boundaries without them having to take responsibility for it already.

I don't wish anyone death in an avalanche but people can take responsibility for their actions. All actions have consequences, big and small.

It sucks this guy lost his life, I'm baffled as to how the Utah Avalanche center and Vail ski patrol could better warn people of the dangers out those gates. Even my 60 year old mom is aware of the avalanche danger at the moment.

Having spent a few seasons hiking that gate and skinning that ridge on a regular basis I've unfortunately grown accustomed to having this conversation once every few years. The access is so easy and the views from the chair and number of tracks create a scenario that is far too tempting for the competent inbounds but unprepared backcountry skier and it leads to events like this on a recurring basis.

By no means an I advocating for a closure of the gates or the lift, people need to take responsibility for their own actions. However, given the number of fun-police yellow jacket employees that were on the mountain when I was still skiing there I'd like to think that Vail could spare a volunteer to hang out by the gate on days with danger above considerable to check beacons and ask the hard questions of people heading out.

The only change I'd advocate for would be a fence that both blocked some of the visibility and removed the possibility of ducking the rope to access that terrain without first hiking to the top of the ridge.

[mall walker]

^ well said

[S_jenks]

*snip*

By no means an I advocating for a closure of the gates or the lift, people need to take responsibility for their own actions. However, given the number of fun-police yellow jacket employees that were on the mountain when I was still skiing there I'd like to think that Vail could spare a volunteer to hang out by the gate on days with danger above considerable to check beacons and ask the hard questions of people heading out.

I wonder what keeps more resorts from doing this in the U.S? Are they afraid of liability from someone at the gate "not giving enough of a warning", or perhaps it's just plain ol' cheapness?

When we were skiing at Kiroro in Hokkaido, their main BC gate had a 1-2 resort employees there as a makeshift checkpoint. They were friendly, knowledgeable, and checking for avvy gear. Had one of those booster-club tents set up with a heater, so they felt comfortable while on the clock. Once you were past the gate you accepted the risks, but it was a heartwarming thing to encounter when you are a foreigner trying to make sense of an unfamiliar snowpack.

Yes, yes, I know that a Japanese ski are isn't the best comparison. But there is something to be said for having some level of face-to-face interaction before people go out of the gates. A single conversation before heading out of the gates can make all of the difference.

[snowaddict91]

I wonder what keeps more resorts from doing this in the U.S? Are they afraid of liability from someone at the gate "not giving enough of a warning", or perhaps it's just plain ol' cheapness?

Probably some of both with a good dose of good ol' American liability issues, but I'm no lawyer. By the resort acknowledging they should do something about warning people, have they now made it their problem?

[JKnight]

Probably wishful thinking, but with what's gone on with the pandemic, it may be good time to look at tort reform here in the US.

[muted]

Nothing should change. no tort reform, no employee at the gate, no nothing. The sign warned him, he chose to ignore it.

[mc_roon]

Probably some of both with a good dose of good ol' American liability issues, but I'm no lawyer. By the resort acknowledging they should do something about warning people, have they now made it their problem?

This is certainly one of the issues - once you take any level of control over whether the gate is open or not or if any representative of Vail gives guidance as to whether someone should or should not go out of it, there is the potential for legal liability. Right now it is not Vail but the FS who is 'responsible'.

Now, there is nothing to stop a private citizen from posting up at the top of the gate and expressing their perspective to anyone without gear who happens to come along on a day where they really shouldnt be out there. I have some memories of MPPG & others being quite blunt with their opinions in years long past

[JKnight]

Nothing should change. no tort reform, no employee at the gate, no nothing. The sign warned him, he chose to ignore it.

I'm more interested in what could happen to the access. If liability laws changed, it would support the status quo.

[TheK12]

How far up the road does the snow start in the Donut Falls Trail area? Was thinking this would be a nice safe walk up a snowy road to get some exercise and just to be out somewhere. Not looking to ski down anything as we don't quite have the backcountry knowledge to venture up a slope, just looking for the exercise and some skinning practice. Looking for any other recs as well?

[schindlerpiste]

I was was wondering what you 2 and mppg have to share. Where is he any way? Also, I would be interested what Jake and Powstash have to say about the past week in PC

[sfotex]

How far up the road does the snow start in the Donut Falls Trail area? Was thinking this would be a nice safe walk up a snowy road to get some exercise and just to be out somewhere. Not looking to ski down anything as we don't quite have the backcountry knowledge to venture up a slope, just looking for the exercise and some skinning practice. Looking for any other recs as well?

The road is packed snow at the parking area on the south side/north facing. The north side/south facing is bare dirt.... There was at least a hundred skiers headed up the road this morning...
You could also skin up the guardsman road, Mill Creek, or SR-65

[turnfarmer]

My understanding is that patrol has never had the authority to open or close that gate. You leave it, you're on your own and the resort is never going to tell you that it's "okay" or not.

Given how often Sound of Music gets skied and how mellow and tasty it looks, it sure does move.


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Sound of Music is really deceptive, I think it's a really dangerous place. With all of the rollovers, Dutch is one of the most dangerous places in the Wasatch.

I left PC shortly after the 9990 Chair went in. If they had made the gate lower requiring a skin to get to the ridge it would have weeded out a lot of unprepared skiers.

Not nearly as much as leather boots and 55mm waisted skis did though.

[Benneke10]

How far up the road does the snow start in the Donut Falls Trail area? Was thinking this would be a nice safe walk up a snowy road to get some exercise and just to be out somewhere. Not looking to ski down anything as we don't quite have the backcountry knowledge to venture up a slope, just looking for the exercise and some skinning practice. Looking for any other recs as well?

Snow starts immediately but you gotta watch out for hoardes of sledders at the beginning. Park City lets you go up Home Run before 8:30am and after 6:00pm, more fun than the other options listed since you can actually make turns on the way down. If Alta starts cat skiing in Grizzly again then there will be a great cat track up from the summer road to Fantasy Ridge but its not in yet (if at all this year??)