2020 Wildfire Season

[Ottime]

Tuned into the Santa Cruz Sentinel to get caught up on what's going on there and caught a feature article on the homegrown Bonny Doon fire brigade that has saved numerous properties against the wishes of Cal Fire and most governmental agencies in the region. Crux of the biscuit response from one of the brigade leaders (comprised of a few pro firefighters and their neighbors) to a claim from Cal Fire that Cal Fire crews might not be able to save them if things got out of control was to the effect of "If we were under the impression Cal Fire could do anything, we wouldn't be here. We've only seen one Cal Fire truck in the last two weeks. If we left this to them, our homes would already be gone."

Not surprised the Sentinel did not report the minimum of five times that CalFire stopped fighting the fire to send professional wildfire fighters in to save other “brigades” that did get into trouble and needed to be saved.

In at least one of those instances, homes were lost due to the recovery efforts they put in to save lives that were not supposed to be there in the first place.


Don’t get the news from the Sentinel. That rag is worse than Fox News when it comes to reporting. They write whatever they want and don’t rely on facts.

[KQ]

Not surprised the Sentinel did not report the minimum of five times that CalFire stopped fighting the fire to send professional wildfire fighters in to save other “brigades” that did get into trouble and needed to be saved.

In at least one of those instances, homes were lost due to the recovery efforts they put in to save lives that were not supposed to be there in the first place.


Don’t get the news from the Sentinel. That rag is worse than Fox News when it comes to reporting. They write whatever they want and don’t rely on facts.

Reminds me of the time I saw an interview with Toby Keith (yeah, the singer) where he was bragging about how his son rushed out to help people after a nasty tornado. Guy rushed in and got himself hurt so medics had to spend time fixing him up rather than helping actual victims of the tornado. Toby was bragging of course not stopping to think that his son's efforts, while good hearted, actual hurt the relief effort.

Always two sides to every coin.

BTW - it skeeves me out whenever I see news reports of people walking around destroyed buildings after tornados usually in totally inappropriate footwear. All I can think of is stepping on nails which by the way is what Toby Keith's son had done <shudder>

[KQ]

Okay.... not to downplay the loss here for this guy or anyone else but I've got questions:

How are there trees left with foliage on them if the structures burned to the ground without barely any debris left? If you go to his FB page there are no pictures of said "dream home" either. That said behind the tree it does look like the drive moving up hill like you see in the "before" pic.


From a FB page on the CA fires:

Shawn Moore is with Nathan Moore and Jason Moore in Santa Cruz, California.
llAtffuguSseSth p25c uaSoatc Scn1saon2crl:ei5d2s PaMd ·
Our Boulder Creek dream before and after the fire. 2nd photo big tree is the same tree in photo 1 next to the garage. Yes, the whole home and garage are dust. PLEASE, if you are local and know of someone with a rental on the west side (Santa Cruz for those not local), please please please Message me. We are looking for a 12 month lease. We NEED to stay local. #RIP660MemoryLane #wewillrebuild #czulightningcomplex #scm #bouldercreek @ Santa Cruz, California
Before:



After:

[DJSapp]

I've been driving back into the office this week and the scars from the eastern edge of the LNU complex are massive. What gets me is this area burned every year since 2014. It actually looks like the trees are doing a lot better than I would have thought (at least along the I-80 corridor) and it stayed low. Is this what we actually need? Lots of low, fast burning widespread fires to sweep out the understory?

http://projects.capradio.org/califor...7.136/-121.213

[LongShortLong]

Okay.... not to downplay the loss here for this guy or anyone else but I've got questions:

How are there trees left with foliage on them if the structures burned to the ground without barely any debris left? If you go to his FB page there are no pictures of said "dream home" either. That said behind the tree it does look like the drive moving up hill like you see in the "before" pic.

It turns out that California trees are pretty fire resistant. The tree pictured had the misfortune of a house fire next to it. House fires burn hotter and longer than the brush that tree is adapted for. It'll probably have a shorter life now. If you check the footage from the Paradise "forest" fire, you'll see it was also a "houses" fire in a forest. A redwood makes it to 1500 years, even with the noble native pyromaniacs burning the brush every 10-20. The pines of Paradise are shorter lived, but also withstand many fires in their natural lives.

Much of the brush also has a fire strategy - resprouting from the roots. The houses also vigorously resprout, as if from roots, often bigger than the original. Sorry for those who lost one.

[Meadow Skipper]

I've been driving back into the office this week and the scars from the eastern edge of the LNU complex are massive. What gets me is this area burned every year since 2014. It actually looks like the trees are doing a lot better than I would have thought (at least along the I-80 corridor) and it stayed low. Is this what we actually need? Lots of low, fast burning widespread fires to sweep out the understory?

Yes, that’s what’s needed.

[Meadow Skipper]

Okay.... not to downplay the loss here for this guy or anyone else but I've got questions:

How are there trees left with foliage on them if the structures burned to the ground without barely any debris left? If you go to his FB page there are no pictures of said "dream home" either. That said behind the tree it does look like the drive moving up hill like you see in the "before" pic.]

Ground fuels are what carries wildfire. Chances are the ground fire burned right up to the house, but didn’t get into the crowns. And/or burning embers from grass, brush, or small trees carried and lodged in the deck and all those eaves, which is how many homes ignite. It would be hard to design a house more capable of catching blowing embers and igniting than that one.

[old goat]

It turns out that California trees are pretty fire resistant. The tree pictured had the misfortune of a house fire next to it. House fires burn hotter and longer than the brush that tree is adapted for. It'll probably have a shorter life now. If you check the footage from the Paradise "forest" fire, you'll see it was also a "houses" fire in a forest. A redwood makes it to 1500 years, even with the noble native pyromaniacs burning the brush every 10-20. The pines of Paradise are shorter lived, but also withstand many fires in their natural lives.

Much of the brush also has a fire strategy - resprouting from the roots. The houses also vigorously resprout, as if from roots, often bigger than the original. Sorry for those who lost one.

Ground fuels are what carries wildfire. Chances are the ground fire burned right up to the house, but didn’t get into the crowns. And/or burning embers from grass, brush, or small trees carried and lodged in the deck and all those eaves, which is how many homes ignite. It would be hard to design a house more capable of catching blowing embers and igniting than that one.

According to the briefings we've had from the Cal Fire and Truckee Fire folks, the big fires spread not from an advancing fire front but from embers carried long distances. Some of them land in spaces that act as chimneys, through unscreened attic vents is a big one.

A house is dry dead wood, a tree is wet, live wood.

I expect/hope we'll see building codes in fire country as strict on fire prevention as they are for the much smaller risk of a big earthquake in much of California. (How much good do indoor sprinkler systems do against wildfire?) Fire resistant roofs are already required, last I looked fire resistant decks aren't, or has that changed?

[PB]

We should all be living' underground, I'm telling ya .......

Troglodytes do not fear the fire.

[bodywhomper]

According to the briefings we've had from the Cal Fire and Truckee Fire folks, the big fires spread not from an advancing fire front but from embers carried long distances. Some of them land in spaces that act as chimneys, through unscreened attic vents is a big one.

A house is dry dead wood, a tree is wet, live wood.

I expect/hope we'll see building codes in fire country as strict on fire prevention as they are for the much smaller risk of a big earthquake in much of California. (How much good do indoor sprinkler systems do against wildfire?) Fire resistant roofs are already required, last I looked fire resistant decks aren't, or has that changed?

I thought that modern cali building code accounts for fairly small vent screen size or “sealed” attics for the sake of fire embers. FEMA funded roof material retrofits require retrofitting the vents. The next round of relevant code, I believe, is addressing no veg a certain distance to structures, banning use of chips as xeroscape mulch within a certain distance to structures, and setback requirements (or more fire resistant building materials) to provide for defensible space in vulnerable suburbs.

[old goat]

I thought that modern cali building code accounts for fairly small vent screen size or “sealed” attics for the sake of fire embers. FEMA funded roof material retrofits require retrofitting the vents. The next round of relevant code, I believe, is addressing no veg a certain distance to structures, banning use of chips as xeroscape mulch within a certain distance to structures, and setback requirements (or more fire resistant building materials) to provide for defensible space in vulnerable suburbs.

We've had defensible space regs for quite a while, not that anyone is enforcing it. Yeah, vents are supposed to be screened. Mandated distance between shrubs with mineral soil between, no tree branches within I think 15 feet of the ground (might be less), and a number of other regulations. Defensible space doesn't work that well when you have 50 foot wide lots. Doesn't do much good to clear the brush behind the house when the neighbors house is that close.

[bodywhomper]

We've had defensible space regs for quite a while, not that anyone is enforcing it. Yeah, vents are supposed to be screened. Mandated distance between shrubs with mineral soil between, no tree branches within I think 15 feet of the ground (might be less), and a number of other regulations. Defensible space doesn't work that well when you have 50 foot wide lots. Doesn't do much good to clear the brush behind the house when the neighbors house is that close.

I'm talking about the physical space between homes on different lots. State fire marshals (at least retired ones) are mentioning a big oops regarding setback requirements in suburbs adjacent to the wui. That issue was driven home after the 2017 fires in Sonoma county, apparently. Lots of head scratching about what to do about the HUGE volume of currently built homes in the state with this problem.

I've driven around paradise a few times since the fire for work and had spent time in paradise before the fire. It's pretty interesting to see what burned and what didn't.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

[ill-advised strategy]

We should all be living' underground, I'm telling ya .......

Troglodytes do not fear the fire.

Earthships.

Earthships are wonderful homes. Seriously.

[Meadow Skipper]

Earthships.

Earthships are wonderful homes. Seriously.

You can take the boy out of Taos, but you can’t take the Taoseño out of the boy.

[concretejungle]

Heh.

[frorider]

Some of them land in spaces that act as chimneys, through unscreened attic vents is a big one.

Our house is less than 20 yrs old & when we moved in I noticed that the screens on the vents were too coarse to effectively screen embers. Many houses up here like that despite the simple fix.

[KQ]

Yakima River Canyon FB post from Red's Fly Shop last night





Good night for now. We will pick it back up in the morning. Lots of amazing men and women are working to stop this big fire and take a stand here at the Yakima River. If you plan to come here this weekend, it may be wise to consider other plans. We will be working feverishly to contact everyone with reservations to get an alternative plan in place for your adventure. Be patient and we appreciate all your prayers and support. Tough year.

#evansfire
#redflyshop

Post this morning:


This is what it looks like on a good day:

[Mokomahonah]

In placer county, new decks need to meet WUI requirements as if they are a new building. For rebuilds only the deck surface needs to be WUI. All new buildings have to meet WUI in California. The requirements of WUI change based on what the state fire marshal determines the "Fire Severity Zone" is.


Defensible space only works if there is someone there to defend it.

The Slink fire is producing some serious smoke. Bailed on plans to camp in that area, going to stay closer to home.

[KQ]

......

[frorider]

Recent satellite pic shows the Slink plume going northward, which explains the good air quality readings in Walker. With wind directions shifting all over the place next few days, hard to guess where it’ll be clearish.

[TBS]

......

Meanwhile in Oregon

[old goat]

Meanwhile in Oregon

In Oregon aspiring musical theater actors moonlight as firefighters since the waiter jobs are gone.

[KQ]

From FB:

Friends of the Lodge at Palmer lake (Loomis WA), last night fire exploded down the ridge directly above the lodge. My mom who lives next door was evacuated and she is safe. We thought the lodge was lost. This morning though, it is still there. Thanks to the firefighters that are bravely battling this wildfire. Thoughts and prayers for others around the lake and surrounding region that is burning. We aren't out of the woods yet, prayers are appreciated. #PalmerFire

[John_B]

From FB:

Friends of the Lodge at Palmer lake (Loomis WA), last night fire exploded down the ridge directly above the lodge. My mom who lives next door was evacuated and she is safe. We thought the lodge was lost. This morning though, it is still there. Thanks to the firefighters that are bravely battling this wildfire. Thoughts and prayers for others around the lake and surrounding region that is burning. We aren't out of the woods yet, prayers are appreciated. #PalmerFire

KQ you got lead astray by FB. That happened about 3 weeks ago and the Palmer fire is fortunately wrapped up now.

[KQ]

KQ you got lead astray by FB. That happened about 3 weeks ago and the Palmer fire is fortunately wrapped up now.

Just a pic/narrative of what happened - I didn't change the original post text but sure... could have mentioned it had already happened. Most of what I have comes from this gal who seems to monitor several states:

Jennifer James https://www.facebook.com/groups/1850443698584838/


This is kinda cool:

https://www.facebook.com/anchorpoint...70852780476746