NFL 2020/2021

**BFD** · 01-09-2021, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Supermoon

Well the WFT is playing like a 7 win team. Especially without Smith at the helm.

you eating those words

**Supermoon** · 01-09-2021, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by BFD

you eating those words

Not quite yet, but I’ll happily take an early Brady exit. Makes the Packers path that much easier.

**The SnowShow** · 01-09-2021, 09:58 PM

Missing Brady right about now.

**Mr. Mike** · 01-09-2021, 10:52 PM

Has anyone accomplished more with less of an arm in the nfl than rivers? He looks like sonny jurgenson out throwing quackers, but he completes a lot of them. Pretty good slate of games today. Hope tomorrow delivers another diversion from a meh time of the year ina really bad year so far.

**I Skied Bandini Mountain** · 01-10-2021, 01:30 PM

You can be sure Suzy Kolber knows how to have a good time.

**plugboots** · 01-10-2021, 01:33 PM

Holy shit that Lamar run.
He’s good.

**Supermoon** · 01-10-2021, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Mike

Has anyone accomplished more with less of an arm in the nfl than rivers? He looks like sonny jurgenson out throwing quackers, but he completes a lot of them. Pretty good slate of games today. Hope tomorrow delivers another diversion from a meh time of the year ina really bad year so far.

Rivers is one of the many NFL QBs like Stafford or increasingly like Wilson. Good enough to put up numbers in the regular season, good enough that you don’t think about replacing him, but not good enough to take you all the way. Many franchises are ok being mediocre for eternity.

**BmillsSkier** · 01-10-2021, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Supermoon

Rivers is one of the many NFL QBs like Stafford or increasingly like Wilson. Good enough to put up numbers in the regular season, good enough that you don’t think about replacing him, but not good enough to take you all the way. Many franchises are ok being mediocre for eternity.

And it takes a truly unique franchise to achieve futility for eternity.

**I Skied Bandini Mountain** · 01-10-2021, 02:39 PM

Hey, Wilson has a ring. I can't help but think he had an undisclosed injury that caused his season to go to shit.

**Diamond Joe** · 01-10-2021, 02:41 PM

What I was thinking too. Wilson has not only a ring, but two Superbowl appearances. That's hardly "mediocre"

**shafty85** · 01-10-2021, 02:42 PM

Are you talking about Russell Wilson? Even as an avid Seahawks hater (actually, it's more open mouth breathing, gum chewing, Pete Carroll that I can't stand, but it's morphed into disliking the franchise. At least until Carroll leaves.) I would strongly disagree with that. RW is a top tier QB - sure the last few games have been below his standard but to put him in the realm of QBs who are mediocre is ridiculous. Who would you put above him? Rodgers, Brees and Brady are the only QBs left of his age range/vintage that I would rank ahead or on part with RW and as a Brady fan I think even TB12 is a stretch (though he looked good last night and would have looked even better if some of his receivers hadn't decided to forget how to catch for a while). Other than that you have what... Maholmes, Allen, Watson... And their careers are still young. Will they be able to repeat their success for a decade plus? A couple season's does not make a top end career. Who else? Lamar is an incredible runner of the ball but his arm is nowhere near RWs. So RW is a top 5-8 QB in the league. How is that 'mediocre'?

**stealurface831** · 01-10-2021, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Supermoon

Rivers is one of the many NFL QBs like Stafford or increasingly like Wilson. Good enough to put up numbers in the regular season, good enough that you don’t think about replacing him, but not good enough to take you all the way. Many franchises are ok being mediocre for eternity.

its funny because rivers and wilson are both probable hof candidates.

**I Skied Bandini Mountain** · 01-10-2021, 02:51 PM

Gawd I hate Carroll.

Rivers has always been hot and cold with no in between. Stafford has been killed by a shit O line for his entire career, now he's done. No way do I see Wilson being done at this point of his career.

**Supermoon** · 01-10-2021, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Joe

What I was thinking too. Wilson has not only a ring, but two Superbowl appearances. That's hardly "mediocre"

Originally Posted by stealurface831

its funny because rivers and wilson are both probable hof candidates.

No doubt. Wilson has been in his past a dominant player, but the last couple of years he hasn't had it, IMO. Maybe he has an injury, maybe it's the people around him, but he's thrown some BAD balls in the last couple of years in big games that have to be laid at his feet.

Rivers and Stafford have put up numbers in the regular season, but haven't consistently beaten good teams down the stretch. Maybe it's a lack of that killer instinct the true greats have?

**Supermoon** · 01-10-2021, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by shafty85

Are you talking about Russell Wilson? Even as an avid Seahawks hater (actually, it's more open mouth breathing, gum chewing, Pete Carroll that I can't stand, but it's morphed into disliking the franchise. At least until Carroll leaves.) I would strongly disagree with that. RW is a top tier QB - sure the last few games have been below his standard but to put him in the realm of QBs who are mediocre is ridiculous. Who would you put above him? Rodgers, Brees and Brady are the only QBs left of his age range/vintage that I would rank ahead or on part with RW and as a Brady fan I think even TB12 is a stretch (though he looked good last night and would have looked even better if some of his receivers hadn't decided to forget how to catch for a while). Other than that you have what... Maholmes, Allen, Watson... And their careers are still young. Will they be able to repeat their success for a decade plus? A couple season's does not make a top end career. Who else? Lamar is an incredible runner of the ball but his arm is nowhere near RWs. So RW is a top 5-8 QB in the league. How is that 'mediocre'?

Lamar:

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Russel:

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Lamar got the W.

**shafty85** · 01-10-2021, 03:06 PM

In the last 3 seasons he has thrown 106 TDs to 25 INTs. To say that 'some bad balls in the last couple years' makes him mediocre is asinine. He's also made some incredible throws in games, including big ones. Find a QB that hasn't made some bad throws in the last few seasons in big games.

**Diamond Joe** · 01-10-2021, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Supermoon

No doubt. Wilson has been in his past a dominant player, but the last couple of years he hasn't had it, IMO. Maybe he has an injury, maybe it's the people around him, but he's thrown some BAD balls in the last couple of years in big games that have to be laid at his feet.

I still disagree. "In his past" he was a dominant player? Uh, he threw for over 4,000 yards and 40 TDs (tied for 2nd) this season!

I'm not sure you can lay the loss yesterday on him either, they ran into the most dominant defense (and arguably the single best defensive player in the game) and lost, not really his fault. (In fact, he made some incredible throws, see the 45 yard, scrambling, across-the-body touchdown he threw to DK Metcalf). Last year, they lost in the divisional round to the Packers, at Lambeau Field, in a very close game, that loss was hardly his fault either. Neither of those losses can be "laid at his feet", he played very well in both games.

Are the current Seahawks as good as the team that went to two Superbowls? No, because then they had an absolutely nasty defense with the Legion of Boom guys that they no longer have. The offense under Wilson is just as good as its ever been though. And I hate stupid, cud-chewing Pistol Pete Carroll as much as the next guy.

**shafty85** · 01-10-2021, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Supermoon

Lamar:

Russel:

Lamar got the W.

Did you just clip a random game and use that as "evidence" of a Lamar being as good of a QB as RW? By that logic I could find a game with better stats for *Trubiski in a random game than Maholmes had in a random game and claim *Trubiski is a better QB. And in your clips, RW had 2 TD to LJ's big 0 with basically equal rushing yards.

RW: 4212yds, 40TD, 13INT
LJ: 2750yds, 26TD, 9INT

SH: 12-4
BR: 11-5

RW had a better season than Lamar in ever category other than rushing, including wins. I'm not saying LJ isn't a great QB, but he isn't a better QB than RW.

**EWG** · 01-10-2021, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by shafty85

Did you just clip a random game and use that as "evidence" of a Lamar being as good of a QB as RW? By that logic I could find a game with better stats for Mayfield in a random game than Maholmes had in a random game and claim Mayfield is a better QB. And in your clips, RW had 2 TD to LJ's big 0 with basically equal rushing yards.

RW: 4212yds, 40TD, 13INT
LJ: 2750yds, 26TD, 9INT

SH: 12-4
BR: 11-5

RW had a better season than Lamar in ever category other than rushing, including wins. I'm not saying LJ isn't a great QB, but he isn't a better QB than RW.

Hey! Us Browns fans are just standing here minding our own business. Don't be dragging Baker into this.

**lifelinksplit** · 01-10-2021, 04:18 PM

I know nobody is watching but this game is going exactly how I expected this to go...

**phatty** · 01-10-2021, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Supermoon

No doubt. Wilson has been in his past a dominant player, but the last couple of years he hasn't had it, IMO. Maybe he has an injury, maybe it's the people around him, but he's thrown some BAD balls in the last couple of years in big games that have to be laid at his feet.

Rivers and Stafford have put up numbers in the regular season, but haven't consistently beaten good teams down the stretch. Maybe it's a lack of that killer instinct the true greats have?

Cut your losses and step away from the crack pipe. Using whatever criteria you are trying to use, you could say that Rogers (1 ring a long time ago) or Brees (1 ring a long time ago) are mediocre and their teams have been mediocre. That would be almost as wrong as where you're going. Comparing RW (2 SB appearances) to Rivers and Stafford is beyond ignorant. RW has missed the playoffs once in his career. Was the game yesterday rough? Yes. Was it also only the second "one and done" playoff exit of his career (out of 7)? Yes.

You can dislike the Seahawks and you can even dislike Russell Wilson but that does not make Russell Wilson a mediocre QB who can't make his team successful.

**Diamond Joe** · 01-10-2021, 05:00 PM

Man. This game is BORING

**Supermoon** · 01-10-2021, 05:11 PM

Holy shit Seahawks fans are so fucking sensitive.

Wilson is a good QB who is going to put up good numbers. Is he good enough to go all the way anymore? Hard to say. From what I’ve seen he’s lost it. I would have said the same thing about my QB, Rodgers, until he turned it around this year. This isn’t a statement about his past success.

Wilson is like 3 of his last 9 in the playoffs.

**BFD** · 01-10-2021, 05:18 PM

I always try to hate on Russell Wilson. But when Russell Wilson is in the game that game is not over till the final whistle. Have to respect him, he is a competitor.