Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[Rideski]

Getting the blood moving does help, just did a good hike myself.
For the record though, pretty sure this is a lot of what got things off on the wrong foot. These people are connected to people who are wrecked. I’m having daily discussions with people who have dead family, and they were all healthy, and only some were older. In particular, a healthy 43 year old father of two young kids who worked at JBS meat packing and was the sole bread winner for his family. They are pretty much fucked.

A whopping 6 deaths so far. Oh save us!

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Then to take it further, opening slowly will open the flood gates for many, and point us at 1918 if we don’t do it right because people don’t like to listen.

[hutash]

One wonders about the second wave after mutations.

The good news (if you want to it it that) is this virus is fairly stable, unlike influenza that drops and picks up genes easily. That is why the Spanish flu which wasn't too bad in 1918 came back so deadly in fall and into 1919. sarscor-2 is much less likely to do that. But, it is possible. The mutations people are referring in different populations and that allow tracking are minor code changes.

[liv2ski]

Wasn't it Austin that said dead brown babies didn't bother him if it meant that his wait in rush hour traffic was shorter? Pretty sure it was Austin. Sounds like Austin.

That is a Skougs kind of comment. O wait, they have to be brown Muslim babies.

[Danno]

And they're both right!

fuck, I walked right into that.

[Danno]

Thank you! And also a very genuine thank you to all the mags who despite our differences would be willing to help a brother out. That said, Adiron's right. I'm not looking for help here. We're not starving and (for now) I can tell the banks and my creditors to kindly fuck off. All I want is to get back to working. Even if it means working night shift at the local factory, which I'm still pushing for. We'll all get through this I know. At least for once in my life we're all unemployed together. Somehow that feels better. Haha.

Yeah, you didn't ask for help, it was just hearing about your situation made me think about how you or other mags might need help. Which I still think is a good idea.

Like this.

Maggot fund could be lets keep maggots fed.
Grocery only credit ....?


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Grocery cards could be a good idea.

[snowaddict91]

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/04/...s-case-counts/

Maybe a tad optimistic about numbers but I feel like this article did a pretty good job compiling articles and data I've read elsewhere. But I'm a couple beers deep so don't be too hard on me.

[teleee]

Yeah, you didn't ask for help, it was just hearing about your situation made me think about how you or other mags might need help. Which I still think is a good idea.

i think its a good idea also, one of the cool things about this place is when mags step up to help mags (actually it is THE coolest part about this oddball collection of dentists). Count me in.

[hutash]

This whole shit show really points out the problem with conservatism, the attitude that it's all about me. No doubt AR is the selfish bastard he thinks everybody else is (which the vast majority of human, conservatives excepted, are not). While I commend Austin for wanting to get back out there and be self reliant, there is a reason we need to do what we are collectively doing. It is hard, ut it is the right thing for the greater good. Maybe it takes getting to a certain age to see that, but there are many who realize we are in this together and need to suffer a bit now so we all do better later. We all want to get back to work, but we want to do it in a logical, safer manner.

My political views tend toward doing what is best for everybody, and not just myself. I don't have the least objection to paying a reasonable level of taxes, doing things to reduce my carbon footprint, staying at home so as not to spike the curve and therefore save lives. Sure, I'd rather be out skiing and touring, but but I choose to follow the advice of public health leaders and hopefully will get back to some order on normalcy sooner rather then later, but later is better then having the blood of unknown people on my hands because I was too self centered to care.

[powdrhound]

My bank got a $2,400 deposit today.

This is being borrowed from China, right?
There is some symmetry there.

[Diamond Joe]

Half the US will be on antidepressants and other happy pills after this

Whats the difference?

Maggot fund could be lets keep maggots fed.
Grocery only credit ....?

I'd be down to donate a grocery store gift card or three if there is actually a need here and we set something up.
Something tells me that there are not too many maggots who are actually that poor that they have no $$ to buy food, but I've been wrong before

[old goat]

So what you are saying is, there was no money in a Corona vaccine. Low demand.

Kind of like how we have our asses hanging in the breeze over testing for anti-bodies or infections. No money in testing for something that may never happen so why spend the development capital.

And that is a great reason why a fully market driven system breaks. We are really great at reacting and eventually coming up with solutions to the next challenge. We really suck at recognizing that challenge and preventing it from becoming a challenge.

By we, I mean humans.

RE: Austin or anyone else here. Maybe lighten up on them a bit. This is a great place to vent or float your 1/2 baked theories or ideas or even fears. Give a little bit. (sorry listening to Supertramp channel on Pandora.

As to why there are no vaccines to other coronaviruses, well they were developed or put into development for Sars1 but that was rapidly eliminated from the population, hardly anyone catches Mers so it wasn't worth the development either past academic labs. Of the other 4 coronaviruses, the 2 that have been around prior to 2000 rarely caused disease serious enough to merit vaccination and the other 2 discovered since 2000 also rarely cause serious enough disease outside of immune compromised populations to have them added to a vaccination program.

Mofro, please correct me if I'm wrong: the SARS vaccine work gave us a template for a coronavirus vaccine, and if I understand it correctly the RNA information is being plugged into the template. (I realize this is grossly oversimplified; I prefer things I can cut out to biochemistry). That process is relatively quick, but there's no way to know if the vaccine will work (or if it will kill people) without giving it to people. Unlike a treatment for Covid19, where you can see results within a week or 2. it takes a long time to test a vaccine--you have to give it to a lot of people and then wait a long time to see if fewer of them get sick than people who didn't get the vaccine. A significant number of people have to be actually exposed to the virus before we know if the vaccine works. (The yellow fever research was done by having volunteers, including the researcher Dr. Walter Reed letting themselves be bitten by mosquitoes in Panama--they got sick, proving that Aedes Aegyptii was the vector. Nowadays we can't deliberately expose volunteers to Covid19. )

The point being that you can't make a vaccine for a virus that doesn't exist yet. You have to have antigenic material from the virus, unless you are very lucky and the new virus is antigenically similar enough to an existing virus--like smallpox and cowpox.

[MultiVerse]

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/04/...s-case-counts/

Maybe a tad optimistic about numbers but I feel like this article did a pretty good job compiling articles and data I've read elsewhere. But I'm a couple beers deep so don't be too hard on me.

The article is not bad and it does a good job of summarizing the latest population studies but he makes some fundamental errors and jumps to too many conclusions. For example, the case fatality rate (CFR) is the number deaths divided by the number of diagnosed cases whereas the infection fatality rate (IFR) is deaths divided by the number of diagnosed + asymptomatic + estimated undiagnosed.

So when he's comparing COVID with the flu, he's trying to compare his back of the envelope COVID IFR with influenza's CFR when he should be comparing COVID's 1-to-4% U.S. CFR with the flu's 0.1% CFR. The flu's IFR is an order of magnitude smaller, somewhere between 0.001-to-0.01%.

As testing improves COVID's CFR will likely fall, but from what we've seen elsewhere it is still much more deadly than the flu.

[Bunion 2020]

My bank got a $2,400 deposit today.

This is being borrowed from China, right?
There is some symmetry there.

One thing that occurred to me. That $ 1200.00 check is not meant to help us although it does help somewhat, it is meant to maintain some level of spending and keep the economic pump from breaking prime.

[Vt-Freeheel]

The Rules:
1. Basically, you can't leave the house for any reason, but if you have to, then you can.
2. Masks are useless, but maybe you have to wear one, it can save you, it is useless, but maybe it is mandatory as well.
3. Stores are closed, except those that are open.
4. You should not go to hospitals unless you have to go there. Same applies to doctors, you should only go there in case of emergency, provided you are not too sick.
5. This virus is deadly but still not too scary, except that sometimes it actually leads to a global disaster.
6. Gloves won't help, but they can still help.
7. Everyone needs to stay HOME, but it's important to GO OUT.
8. There is no shortage of groceries in the supermarket, but there are many things missing when you go there in the evening, but not in the morning. Sometimes.
9. The virus has no effect on children except those it affects.
10. Animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February when no one had been tested, plus a few tigers here and there…
11. You will have many symptoms when you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without having symptoms. Oh, my..
12. In order not to get sick, you have to eat well and exercise, but eat whatever you have on hand and it's better not to go out, well, but no…
13. It's better to get some fresh air, but you get looked at very wrong when you get some fresh air, and most importantly, you don't go to parks or walk. But don't sit down, except that you can do that now if you are old, but not for too long or if you are pregnant (but not too old).
14. You can't go to retirement homes, but you have to take care of the elderly and bring food and medication.
15. If you are sick, you can't go out, but you can go to the pharmacy.
16. You can get restaurant food delivered to the house, which may have been prepared by people who didn't wear masks or gloves. But you have to have your groceries decontaminated outside for 3 hours. Pizza too?
17. Every disturbing article or disturbing interview starts with " I don't want to trigger panic, but…"
18. You can't see your older mother or grandmother, but you can take a taxi and meet an older taxi driver.
19. You can walk around with a friend but not with your family if they don't live under the same roof.
20. You are safe if you maintain the appropriate social distance, but you can't go out with friends or strangers at the safe social distance.
21. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no, four, no, six, no, we didn't say hours, maybe days? But it takes a damp environment. Oh no, not necessarily.
22. The virus stays in the air - well no, or yes, maybe, especially in a closed room, in one hour a sick person can infect ten, so if it falls, all our children were already infected at school before it was closed. But remember, if you stay at the recommended social distance, however in certain circumstances you should maintain a greater distance, which, studies show, the virus can travel further, maybe.
23. We count the number of deaths but we don't know how many people are infected as we have only tested so far those who were "almost dead" to find out if that's what they will die of…
24. We have no treatment, except that there may be one that apparently is not dangerous unless you take too much (which is the case with all medications).
25. We should stay locked up until the virus disappears, but it will only disappear if we achieve collective immunity, so when it circulates… but we must no longer be locked up for that?

[hutash]

Mofro, please correct me if I'm wrong: the SARS vaccine work gave us a template for a coronavirus vaccine, and if I understand it correctly the RNA information is being plugged into the template. (I realize this is grossly oversimplified; I prefer things I can cut out to biochemistry).

That's okay, we realize you are a surgeon. The just the fact you know about RNA is amazing

[old goat]

So what you are saying is, there was no money in a Corona vaccine. Low demand.

Kind of like how we have our asses hanging in the breeze over testing for anti-bodies or infections. No money in testing for something that may never happen so why spend the development capital.

And that is a great reason why a fully market driven system breaks. We are really great at reacting and eventually coming up with solutions to the next challenge. We really suck at recognizing that challenge and preventing it from becoming a challenge.

By we, I mean humans.

RE: Austin or anyone else here. Maybe lighten up on them a bit. This is a great place to vent or float your 1/2 baked theories or ideas or even fears. Give a little bit. (sorry listening to Supertramp channel on Pandora.

That's okay, we realize you are a surgeon. The just the fact you know about RNA is amazing

I didn't bother studying biochem for my licensing exam. I figured I could get all the biochem questions wrong and still pass.

[hutash]

The Rules: ?

Sounds just like a Trump presser.

[MakersTeleMark]

Wow, Polis, the Jewish, gay governor of CO was just asked by some asshole Grand Junction reporter about how his stay-home order compares to elements of Nazism, (which apparently GOP Minority leader Patrick Neville said) those orders led to a "Gestapo-like mindset.” Polis fought back tears.

That is a bit of a mischaracterization. The reporter asked what his response was to those who have been making those comparisons. The reporter in no way suggested that he held those beliefs or viewpoints. It gave Jared an opportunity to show some deeply sad emotion where at a time, coming from a politician, is truly rare.

[El Chupacabra]

Question on masks: is a simple paper dust mask (garage/garden type) useful for grocery store visiting? Better or worse than bandana?

[glademaster]

Question on masks: is a simple paper dust mask (garage/garden type) useful for grocery store visiting? Better or worse than bandana?

Follow up, how drunk do you have you be for the concentration of alcohol vapors on your breath to kill the virus if you're exposed to it in airborne form?

[El Chupacabra]

I'm only one drink in tonight...

[Gcooker]

The Rules:
1-26

Toss in 100k deaths in North America and you pretty much nailed it.

[4matic]

Dangerous news:

Sources believe coronavirus originated in Wuhan lab as part of China's efforts to compete with US

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cor...ete-us-sources

[ColoMike]

Seriously? When the people elect a political party to run government that doesn’t actually believe in government you get a shitty government.


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Since there are around 300 posts after this, apologies if this is already quoted a bunch, this this captures the source of our current conundrum. On point.


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[MakersTeleMark]

Twitch and Discord are seriously fucking up my already fucked up sleep schedule. I will forever associate these apps with Covid times.