So looking through the Shimano website...

[Free Range Lobster]

You would have thought over 10 years ago when Tomac and Furtado were shattering them they'd have learned the integrated shifters and brake levers were a STUPID GODDAMN IDEA?!

Ah well.
Fucking Shimano, still up to their gay tricks.

[phUnk]

Too bad they're the only game in town.

Oh, wait...

[Telephil]

Too bad they're the only game in town.

Oh, wait...

Yeah, thank goodness for campy.

[Oarhead]

The rapid rise derailleur is another favorite of mine.

Flipping through the mags in the supermarket last night I saw that they (Shimano) have a nice campaign trying to boost the integrated shifter/brake to the freeride side. Simmons, Vanderham, schley et al have been recruited to try and sell it.

Breaking everything at one in not my idea of smart R&D.

[Spats]

It's funny watching Shimano vs. SRAM, because when one of them has a good idea, the other can't use it or they lose their mystique of being indefinably better than the other. So Shimano can't use 1:1 cable pull, and SRAM can't use Rapid Rise.

Just like watching the fork world, where Marzocchi can't use a 1.5 headtube because it was Manitou's idea, and Manitou can't use an air/oil damping cartridge because that's what Marzocchi does.

[Plakespear]

It's funny watching Shimano vs. SRAM, because when one of them has a good idea, the other can't use it or they lose their mystique of being indefinably better than the other...SRAM can't use Rapid Rise.

I though you saud GOOD idea

[scoober]

The inherent benefits of Rapid Rise are really only obvious off-road. It allows for nice, quick, crisp downshifts (up the cassette) in times of drivetrain stress. How is that not a good idea? Seems pretty good for freeride situations too, where you need to climb the cassette fast as you come up quickly on a steep stunt.

I probably don't need to remind most in this crowd but Rapid Rise does not equal those gay-ass Dual Control levers, it is just a derailiuer mechanism. While Dual Control is seeing a lot of spec'ing on complete bikes, stand alone rapid fire XT shift pods are still widely available.

Tenthly, does SRAM really think they are revolutionary with thumb-thumb shifting? My 1992 Shimano 200gs shifters have that.

But seriously the Shimano bashing is so played, and the bandwagon wasn't even cool when it started 2 years ago. SRAMs been around for a while folks. Like it or not, just think where the fuck cycling would be without Shimano. Suntour?

Those SRAM ads in the latest mags that parody the Shimano Dual Control ads are hilarious. 32nd rule of marketing: if you have to directly parody someone else's campaign you are clearly #2.

[Spats]

Rapid Rise rules, and despite our disagreements over shifters, I think lph will back me on this

scoober hits the main point: it's really nice to have the spring doing the work when you're downshifting under load, instead of your thumb being doubled back with the stress of trying to push up the cogs while you're simultaneously busting a lung up a steep tech section that suddenly got steeper than you thought.

I have a lawsuit XTR rear derailleur on my hardtail: the first year they came out with Rapid Rise, they built a Rollamajig into the mechanism and were immediately sued by Avid. I've never found anything that shifts more crisply.

[the_eleven]

I have two bikes with rapid rise & dual control, ride a lot, & would never use anything else.

I would describe the shifting as crisp, quick, and positive. They DO need to be adjusted properly, which is not as easy as some other systems.

When I ride other bikes with trigger shifters, it is like going back to the stone age; shift clunky and slow.

I do like the feel of the new SRAM rear derailleurs.

[Bunion 2020]

scoober hits the main point: it's really nice to have the spring doing the work when you're downshifting under load, instead of your thumb being doubled back with the stress of trying to push up the cogs while you're simultaneously busting a lung up a steep tech section that suddenly got steeper than you thought.

I have found that really knowing how to shift and keeping from trying to shift while the drive train is loaded is much more important.

[Free Range Lobster]

But seriously the Shimano bashing is so played, and the bandwagon wasn't even cool when it started 2 years ago. SRAMs been around for a while folks. Like it or not, just think where the fuck cycling would be without Shimano. Suntour?

Oh I totally appreciate the innovations they've made, but I find it silly that they're still trying to push the integrated thing 10+ years after everyone looked at that and went "wtf? so if i crash and destroy my brake, i have to get both a brake AND shifter?!"

Just an amusing observation.
But I suppose for OEM stuff it makes sense, cheaper for Shimano, cheaper for the bike company.

My Specialized Rockhopper has 1st gen gripshifts.

[Oarhead]

Scoober,
I can appreciate your like for rapidrise, to each their own. I don't like it, and I sure as hell don't like the dual control.

If something performs better than the competition then I am a big fan, I won't buy something for my bike just so I can have a different name to show off.

What I don't like is the way Shimano tries to steamroll the bike industry and make them toe the line. Proprietary systems, non-compatability with other components, one peice multiple components - all of this is an effort to make the manufacturers drop the competition. I met and talked with a shimano tech at the world cup last year and he was trying to tell me how much better rapidrise and dual control was over the old stuff for free-ride and DH. He said that shimano was not planning on producing seperate pods and brakes after a few years. That is complete bullshit and the fact that a lot of companies are dumping shimano in favor of SRAM shows them how pissed off everybody is getting at their schoolyard bully tactics. Your dollar is your vote and the companies are voting.

If shimano comes up with an affordable, durable, intuitive drivetrain system that is compatible with other components then I will be in line to get it, however for the time being I am in the SRAM camp.

The pendulum always swings back. I am stoked that there are 2 big companies fighting for the customers dollars since we end up being the winners.

[scoober]

I have found that really knowing how to shift and keeping from trying to shift while the drive train is loaded is much more important.

I look at it like this: if you are driving a manual shift car really hard sometimes you downshift going into a corner to end up in the right rpm range when you come out. That's not mechanically healthy for that drivetrain either, but you do it for performance sake. If I am racing and am on a downhill leading into a sharp uphill, I am not going to downshift on the downhill and spin out just for the sake of "shifting properly".

What I don't like is the way Shimano tries to steamroll the bike industry and make them toe the line. Proprietary systems, non-compatability with other components, one peice multiple components - all of this is an effort to make the manufacturers drop the competition.

I actually really agree. I definitely do not like non-industry standards like Octalink and things of that nature that really limit your usage of other aftermarket brands for such a stand alone piece of the drivetrain. But shifters/derailiuers have always gone hand in hand. That being said, I do not like the dual control. Integrated rapid fire shifters bother me less.

[Bunion 2020]

Scoober, I gave up racing 10+ years ago. I want simple solid parts that work and don't need a bunch of fancy expensive crap added on. One of the reasons I will not buy above XT.

You want parts you can push to their limit, that is way cool. I want parts that last and get me home from a long ride through places that walking would suck.

If you abuse shit to make it perform, no amount of extra springs or whatever will make it last. For me, this is the key.

See ya... bye