Silverton Mtn: guided skiing only for '05/'06

[cmsummit]

Just wondering what happened to their vision of offering $35 day tickets with unguided skiing? I guess I thought the EIS was approved, which was their last hurdle to clear.

Looks like they are also offering a deal on lifetime season passes, currently $10,000 down from $15,000. I'll take two please.

[truth]

J O N G !

[cmsummit]

J O N G !

yeah.......

[Foggy_Goggles]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but where did you get this info that it will be guided only again?

Re: $35 tickets. Like many dreams, this one is proving extremely challenging in reality. When I talked to Jenny last year, she conceeded that this is not on the short term horizon.

With out starting another Silverton bitch thread, its their business they can run it how they want to. I think Silverton is up front about what to expect, if you don't like it, don't go.

[cmsummit]

:I'm not saying you're wrong, but where did you get this info that it will be guided only again?.

from their website: "Reservations now available for the '05/'06 season. Call now for spaces during those prime mid-winter months." Sounded to me like the same policy as in past years and it will be guided again. It would certainly be cool if they did limit the number of people on the mountain to say 80 and did have open skiing. Of course, the terrain open would probably be pretty limited.

: $35 tickets. Like many dreams, this one is proving extremely challenging in reality. When I talked to Jenny last year, she conceeded that this is not on the short term horizon.

Yeah, I know they've been saying from day one that it's their vision to provide $35 tickets and limit the number of day users to around 500. I don't see them being able to get 500 day users on mountain any time in the short term.

: With out starting another Silverton bitch thread, its their business they can run it how they want to. I think Silverton is up front about what to expect, if you don't like it, don't go.

really?

[Mountain Junkie]

I wouldn't be too disappointed if they nix the unguided skiing given the very limited terrain Silverton would allow you to ski. I guess it would be nice for a filler on a travel day, but other than that, meh.

[truth]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but where did you get this info that it will be guided only again?

From the general info page on their site:

2005-2006 Private Guide Service also available (extra guides on staff for 2005/06 to hanlde increased demand): 1 person $425, 2-3 people $550, $240 for each additional person includes gourmet lunch & beer/wine

Silverton Mountain is a new expert and advanced only ski/snowboard facility. One double chairlift accesses the steepest, most adventure filled lift served skiing this side of Valdez, Alaska. Silverton Mountain located in Silverton, Colorado opened for business on January 19th 2002. We are currently a guided only operation with limited amount of daily customers. (See the latest news section for details on this.) THE 2005-2006 SEASON WILL BE GUIDED TOURS ONLY. If you would lke to make reservations please use our online reservations system or give us a call at (970)387-5706. It is still our goal to try to offer inexpensive lift tickets but until the federal public lands process is complete we are offering an affordable backcountry type adventure experience from a chairlift.

Private guide service is the way to go, guarantees you your own group regardless of party size...pay to play time.

[horse]

I call BULLSHIT!!!

Many of us supported Silverton Mtn's permit application to the BLM with the understanding that it was going to be a ski area, not some "guided" experience for rich fucks. The EIS alternative supported by a majority of public comments was for a 500-skier capped area; and that was essentially what the BLM approved.

Its mostly public land. If they want to keep running it as "guided" experience for rich fuks, then let them run the ski area on their own land.

[cmsummit]

:Private guide service is the way to go, guarantees you your own group regardless of party size...pay to play time.

I didn't even see the private guide service option. Same cost whether the group size is 2 or 3 people? Interesting.

[truth]

I call BULLSHIT!!!

Many of us supported Silverton Mtn's permit application to the BLM with the understanding that it was going to be a ski area, not some "guided" experience for rich fucks. The EIS alternative supported by a majority of public comments was for a 500-skier capped area; and that was essentially what the BLM approved.

Its mostly public land. If they want to keep running it as "guided" experience for rich fuks, then let them run the ski area on their own land.

Brilliant. So, is Aspen's use of public land any different at $78 a day? Are poor folks really skiing there? Give me a fucking break. Silverton is the best deal in guided skiing period.

[horse]

Brilliant. So, is Aspen's use of public land any different at $78 a day? Are poor folks really skiing there? Give me a fucking break. Silverton is the best deal in guided skiing period.

They have the approval to open the ski area to the general public (on most days), but they're not doing it. Therefore, Bullshit.

If they open it to the public and want to charge $78, then good luck.

And (since you're so brilliant) I'll bet you know their application for an SUP was not for a full-time "guided only" use of federal land.


If you are for a "guided only experience," then you are an elitist buffoon. Just go fly in a heli if you need to be "guided", or is that too much $$$ for you?

[Duker]

They have the approval to open the ski area to the general public (on most days), but they're not doing it. Therefore, Bullshit.

If they open it to the public and want to charge $78, then good luck.

And (since you're so brilliant) I'll bet you know their application for an SUP was not for a full-time "guided only" use of federal land.


If you are for a "guided only experience," then you are an elitist buffoon. Just go fly in a heli if you need to be "guided", or is that too much $$$ for you?

I take it that pee in your cheerios didnt taste so good this morning?

edit: JONG

[horse]

I take it that pee in your cheerios didnt taste so good this morning?

edit: JONG

I take it that you don't think Silverton Mtn should be open to the general public.

[robokill1981]

I take it that you don't think Silverton Mtn should be open to the general public.

I see your point about price being too high, but bitching and moaning about not having silverton your way isn't going to help them get off the ground and to a point where they can offer $35 tickets to the general public. Starting a business takes time and money, neither of which you are giving them.

Personally I think the place is way overpriced for the experience, but I respect what they are doing and wish them the best.

Edit- rereading helps.

[horse]

I see your point about price being too high, but bitching and moaning about not having silverton your way isn't going to help them get off the ground and to a point where they can offer $35 tickets to the general public.

Edit- rereading helps.

Robo : they are off the ground; they have the permit.
My point is not about price, but that it should be open to the public as much as possible and not guided only.

[Below Zero]

They have the approval to open the ski area to the general public (on most days), but they're not doing it.

I thought Silverton did want to open the area up for unguided skiing? Per your statement above, you are saying they can open it up for unguided skiing and they are not. Is this true? And if so, why aren't they doing it.

[robokill1981]

Geuss I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they will open to unguided skiing ASAP. But I don't work their so I don't know.

[Ground Control]

I thought Silverton did want to open the area up for unguided skiing? Per your statement above, you are saying they can open it up for unguided skiing and they are not. Is this true? And if so, why aren't they doing it.

Hmm, if they are already having trouble making a profit by charging $100-$120 for guided skiing with 30-40 customers per day (plus a few private tours at $200-$300/person), that means that $5000 of revenue per day is not cutting it.

Let's assume they will get an average of 100 people per day to shell $35 for their double chair for unguided skiing. Who in their right mind is going to pay 3x as much for the guided skiing? Especially when you have to follow all the powder farming rules (oops, I mean "skier compaction"), and you've got 100 people per day slaying the powder close to the chair? Do the math -- they will be lucky to get $5000/day of revenue with this scenario, and their reputation will decrease because of the mountain getting ripped all day long by the locals.

I would be willing to bet that Silverton will fold if they are foolish enough to allow unguided skiing.

[Below Zero]

Hmm, if they are already having trouble making a profit by charging $100-$120 for guided skiing with 30-40 customers per day (plus a few private tours at $200-$300/person), that means that $5000 of revenue per day is not cutting it.

Let's assume they will get an average of 100 people per day to shell $35 for their double chair for unguided skiing. Who in their right mind is going to pay 3x as much for the guided skiing? Especially when you have to follow all the powder farming rules (oops, I mean "skier compaction"), and you've got 100 people per day slaying the powder close to the chair? Do the math -- they will be lucky to get $5000/day of revenue with this scenario, and their reputation will decrease because of the mountain getting ripped all day long by the locals.

I would be willing to bet that Silverton will fold if they are foolish enough to allow unguided skiing.

So, is this fact, or speculation, JONG?

[homerjay]

Hmm, if they are already having trouble making a profit by charging $100-$120 for guided skiing with 30-40 customers per day (plus a few private tours at $200-$300/person), that means that $5000 of revenue per day is not cutting it.

Let's assume they will get an average of 100 people per day to shell $35 for their double chair for unguided skiing. Who in their right mind is going to pay 3x as much for the guided skiing? Especially when you have to follow all the powder farming rules (oops, I mean "skier compaction"), and you've got 100 people per day slaying the powder close to the chair? Do the math -- they will be lucky to get $5000/day of revenue with this scenario, and their reputation will decrease because of the mountain getting ripped all day long by the locals.

I would be willing to bet that Silverton will fold if they are foolish enough to allow unguided skiing.

1. I thought it was 80 skiers/day?
2. How's Major Tom doing?

[truth]

They have the approval to open the ski area to the general public (on most days), but they're not doing it. Therefore, Bullshit.

If they open it to the public and want to charge $78, then good luck.

And (since you're so brilliant) I'll bet you know their application for an SUP was not for a full-time "guided only" use of federal land.


If you are for a "guided only experience," then you are an elitist buffoon. Just go fly in a heli if you need to be "guided", or is that too much $$$ for you?

I know exactly what the special use permit was for, I know exactly where they stand in the process and I know they fully intend to open the terrain to unguided skiing. Do you think they are making a killing operating guided only skiing? Remember, post first, then smoke crack.

[lemon boy]

:shrug: two jongs in one thread in one day? :shrug:

coincidence? uhhh huh.

[truth]

Hmm, if they are already having trouble making a profit by charging $100-$120 for guided skiing with 30-40 customers per day (plus a few private tours at $200-$300/person), that means that $5000 of revenue per day is not cutting it.

Let's assume they will get an average of 100 people per day to shell $35 for their double chair for unguided skiing. Who in their right mind is going to pay 3x as much for the guided skiing? Especially when you have to follow all the powder farming rules (oops, I mean "skier compaction"), and you've got 100 people per day slaying the powder close to the chair? Do the math -- they will be lucky to get $5000/day of revenue with this scenario, and their reputation will decrease because of the mountain getting ripped all day long by the locals.

I would be willing to bet that Silverton will fold if they are foolish enough to allow unguided skiing.

Your estimates on revenue are flawed. It's doubtful that they are booked to the levels you use. Remember that not only would unguiged allow for more day ticket sales, but it would also open up season pass sales as well as increase the revenue from non skiing sources (food, beer, rentals). I have to believe that when unguiged goes green that there will still be many skiers without the required skills or confidence to enter the backcountry style terrain alone. Thus the "gapers" will continue to use the guide service while extremo rockstar TGR surfers like horse will be more apt to venture to Silverton for thier unfettered turns.

[Mountain Junkie]

My understanding is the unguided skiing would only be in one of the gullys to the right of the lift. Most of the acreage would still be set aside for guided skiing. It seems that most people think that unguided means the WHOLE mountain will be open, which I don't think will be the case. You will still need a guide to access 90% of the terrain.

[kneedropper]

Junkie is right, when they do open unguided skiing it will most likely be the trees off the front. I imagine sitting on the chair with a regular ticket watching the guided groups skiing the goods may put a damper on the day. I imagine that situation would tarnish the mountain's rep more that just remaining guided. If they open unguided, they need to open all of the terrain.