Ask the experts

[toast2266]

I think it’s a fallacy to think a WC racer’s impact on gear is just like mine but faster. If I go faster and don’t die, shit’s gonna break because I’m sloppy and I have no plan.
A WC racer is so much more precise laterally AND vertically.
From my observation, it’s the fast non-WC guys who break the most shit.


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I dunno. You see plenty of stories about WC guys going through multiple wheels in a weekend on some of the rockier tracks. And from the couple WC races I've watched in person, there's some serious gear carnage in practice. They've (hopefully) figured out their lines by the race, but in practice when they're trying different lines and feeling out some gaps, things get chaotic.

[grskier]

Alternative to https://www.raceti.com?

Trying to order some M8 bolts for my bike and their website has been fucked up for days and I can't checkout.

Better bolts and there are a few others… not sure they have exactly what you’re looking for


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[singlesline]

maybe they like how a mullet handles ?

And if they can get a clothing sponsor the buzzed butt does not matter

I guess I’d like to see it with the rider height. Curious if they are choosing mullet across the board or if it is concentrated in the shorter riders.

[t.odd]

maybe they like how a mullet handles ?

And if they can get a clothing sponsor the buzzed butt does not matter

my understanding from some who are close to WC racers and bike development is that the mullets are able to change direction and initiate turns easier, whereas the full 29'ers like to sit more straight up and down and can be harder to get on edge.

[Cocximus]

https://www.mcmaster.com/ has a variety of TI screws. I was considering pimping my ski inserts with torx TI screws.

[XXX-er]

my understanding from some who are close to WC racers and bike development is that the mullets are able to change direction and initiate turns easier, whereas the full 29'ers like to sit more straight up and down and can be harder to get on edge.

thats ^^ more or less what I found and I like how the mullet handles, I often wonder if a 29/29 would handle bumps better but I think i prefer handling with the mullet,

I had a yeti with 29/ 29, probably way more going on but I find the SC with a mullet way more sporty/ easier to get turned than a 29/29 in spite of the SC geo being more slack

[volklpowdermaniac]

My only ?/ thoughts on mullets is - I’m curious for those who have rode many from different brands who is doing the best in terms of other geometry: head tube height, reach, bb height whatever - to come out with the most balanced mullet, riding my status 160 for a while, it’s not unbalanced per say as much as it is very clear (vs wheels of same size) when you’re not over the top or not applying enough front pressure, especially noticeable
On flatter but fun flow stuff where you really need to be almost too forward it would seem at first to engage the front well (goes away naturally In steels and in steeps this is sort of desired?) anyway, lots of reviews talk about the unbalanced nature of mullets wondering if any brand has hit the sweet spot yet.


Tech ask - put the new specialized specific headset from WT into the status 160. Using one of the flimsyspacer, they’re is about a 1-2 mm gap on the head tube so it’s not binding up there in any way - but- it seems that when it’s tight enough to take all the play out of the headset (rocking test) then the bars spin back to center very slowly if at all, and if headset pressure is set such that bars spin with necessary freedom, the headset is loose or just barely tight enough. It’s also seems like top cap is backing out more than I’d like, the whole system needing frequent retightenings. Sense something’s afoot.

[North]

Not sure this is thread worthy so I'll ask here. I live within pedaling distance of a bike park. Barely rode it this season but would like to change that next year. I'm thinking my current bike ('21 Norco Sight) will be fine if I get a set of DH wheels + tires and swap for park riding.

Is this dumb? Will I thrash the Sight? I'm not terribly hard on my gear, but have cracked both carbon bikes I've owned prior (not from shredding too hard, random stuff like rock strikes and chain suck). Guessing maintenance intervals will be shorter, but that's still cheaper than n+1. If DH wheels on the Sight are the way to go, hit me with some recs.

[toast2266]

Not sure this is thread worthy so I'll ask here. I live within pedaling distance of a bike park. Barely rode it this season but would like to change that next year. I'm thinking my current bike ('21 Norco Sight) will be fine if I get a set of DH wheels + tires and swap for park riding.

Is this dumb? Will I thrash the Sight? I'm not terribly hard on my gear, but have cracked both carbon bikes I've owned prior (not from shredding too hard, random stuff like rock strikes and chain suck). Guessing maintenance intervals will be shorter, but that's still cheaper than n+1. If DH wheels on the Sight are the way to go, hit me with some recs.

You'll thrash that bike.

Half the reason to own a dh bike is so you're not thrashing a bike that you pedal uphill. The dh bike still gets thrashed, but when your drivetrain barely shifts, the brakes rub all the time, and the wheels are super out of true, it matters a lot less because you're only riding downhill.

[North]

Dammit that's probably the right answer but definitely not what I wanted to hear. Two bikes sounds fun but having done it before, I know it's not really my jam, especially with a super specific rig like a dh bike as the second.

[skinipenem]

I dunno. You see plenty of stories about WC guys going through multiple wheels in a weekend on some of the rockier tracks. And from the couple WC races I've watched in person, there's some serious gear carnage in practice. They've (hopefully) figured out their lines by the race, but in practice when they're trying different lines and feeling out some gaps, things get chaotic.

Could be wrong here but....

The fastest wc racers are super smooth and incredibly precise.

The crashes are intense and break shit.

Wc racers run lower spoke tensions requiring more maintenance with assumably higher breakage / spoilage rate for rims.

Why are almost no wc dh racers using inserts?



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[toast2266]

Could be wrong here but....

The fastest wc racers are super smooth and incredibly precise.

The crashes are intense and break shit.

Wc racers run lower spoke tensions requiring more maintenance with assumably higher breakage / spoilage rate for rims.

Why are almost no wc dh racers using inserts?



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I think you're vastly overstating how smooth those guys are.

Smooth on a macro level over large bumps that can upset the bike? Absolutely.

But they're nuking through rough chunder at absurd speeds and absolutely plowing into shitloads of rocks and roots. Watch any video of their suspension. It's working *a lot*, and most of those guys are running much, much firmer suspension than us slow people.

And they're not running inserts because inserts ride like shit. Not because they're so easy on equipment that they don't need them.

You don't hear about WC guys breaking stuff because sponsors obviously aren't excited to publish the kill rate for their products. But look at someone like Neko and his frameworks project. For the first 2 years, he cracked every single frame he had made.

[skinipenem]

I think you're vastly overstating how smooth those guys are.

Smooth on a macro level over large bumps that can upset the bike? Absolutely.

But they're nuking through rough chunder at absurd speeds and absolutely plowing into shitloads of rocks and roots. Watch any video of their suspension. It's working *a lot*, and most of those guys are running much, much firmer suspension than us slow people.

And they're not running inserts because inserts ride like shit. Not because they're so easy on equipment that they don't need them.

You don't hear about WC guys breaking stuff because sponsors obviously aren't excited to publish the kill rate for their products. But look at someone like Neko and his frameworks project. For the first 2 years, he cracked every single frame he had made.

I don't disagree. I had forgotten about nekos frames that's a good point.

Still, why are so few using inserts?

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[Andeh]

My only ?/ thoughts on mullets is - I’m curious for those who have rode many from different brands who is doing the best in terms of other geometry: head tube height, reach, bb height whatever - to come out with the most balanced mullet, riding my status 160 for a while, it’s not unbalanced per say as much as it is very clear (vs wheels of same size) when you’re not over the top or not applying enough front pressure, especially noticeable
On flatter but fun flow stuff where you really need to be almost too forward it would seem at first to engage the front well (goes away naturally In steels and in steeps this is sort of desired?) anyway, lots of reviews talk about the unbalanced nature of mullets wondering if any brand has hit the sweet spot yet.

So, I think the key to making a mullet feel balanced (besides not having fucked up geometry from just throwing a 27.5 rear on a 29 bike) is lengthening the chainstay a bit, maybe 5mm. The different wheel sizes / axle heights want to carve different radius arcs when the bike is leaned over and cornering. Really short CS (~430) on mullet has the rear wheel really cut in on the corners and make them feel squared off. 440 feels really nicely balanced. Longer CS moves you closer to the center of the bike so you don't have to shift body position forward, and can just ride neutrally. I think stack height, BB height, etc. is just general geometry, so it's rider preference / dependent on how much travel the bike has / how steep of trails you're riding / etc.

[toast2266]

Still, why are so few using inserts?

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Because dramatically decreasing the air volume in a tire makes it ride weird. Yes, it protects the rim, but it makes the tire less able to grip and conform to the ground.

It's like taking your air shock and cramming it full of volume reducers. Sure, it doesn't bottom out anymore. But it rides like shit.

[Tailwind]

Alright… controversial point here but I don’t actually think the used bike market is all that much worse than it’s been in historic years. It’s nothing like it was in 2021 which is what I think is throwing people.

When I worked at shops, I’d buy a bike in the winter/spring and sell it early fall. I’d assume if I did well, I’d sell it for 40% off msrp if I sold it in late August. 50% if I held it a bit longer.

Things changed quickly but often 3-4 year old bikes depreciated a lot because designs were updated and standards changed. If you were selling a 2014 Santa Cruz in 2018… it would be a 2x drive train, non boost, old geo etc and you’d get $2000 for your previously $6000 bike. So let’s call that 65-70% depreciation. Standards are changing less these days but I think depreciation is holding steady with this.

Point being - new bikes from this spring during pre-Covid markets might be worth 50% of what you paid for them.

Bikes from 2020 should be roughly 65% of their previous value. So for example an $8000 bike from 2020 might be worth around $3000.

Did everyone just forget that bikes depreciate?

[sf]

Because dramatically decreasing the air volume in a tire makes it ride weird. Yes, it protects the rim, but it makes the tire less able to grip and conform to the ground.

It's like taking your air shock and cramming it full of volume reducers. Sure, it doesn't bottom out anymore. But it rides like shit.

Not arguing, I have no experience with inserts.

But maybe some of the major brands - not offering inserts themselves - disapprove of their risers suggesting that their tires «need» them? Might explain some cases, but I haven’t crosschecked the answers

[El Chupacabra]

I use inserts on the rear of two hardtails. It lets me use a lower tire pressure, by around 3-4 psi, which would otherwise be needed to keep the rim from bottoming out. (25 psi instead of 28-29.) I don't have to use them on suspension bikes or front tires (suspension fork) - the boinginess does enough to prevent bottom out.

They are kind of a PITA to install.

[skaredshtles]

I use inserts on the rear of two hardtails. It lets me use a lower tire pressure, by around 3-4 psi, which would otherwise be needed to keep the rim from bottoming out. (25 psi instead of 28-29.) I don't have to use them on suspension bikes or front tires (suspension fork) - the boinginess does enough to prevent bottom out.

They are kind of a PITA to install.

What casing are you using on those rear tires?

[Roxtar]

Because dramatically decreasing the air volume in a tire makes it ride weird. Yes, it protects the rim, but it makes the tire less able to grip and conform to the ground.

It's like taking your air shock and cramming it full of volume reducers. Sure, it doesn't bottom out anymore. But it rides like shit.

Yeah, I've never gotten the whole "using inserts to change ride characteristics" thing. One big advantage of large volume tires is the large volume of air inside.
I use a Huck Norris in the rear as a rim protector, which is what inserts were designed to be. The HN does exactly what it's supposed to do and nothing more. It's light and completely unobtrusive.

[XXX-er]

ech ask - put the new specialized specific headset from WT into the status 160. Using one of the flimsyspacer, they’re is about a 1-2 mm gap on the head tube so it’s not binding up there in any way - but- it seems that when it’s tight enough to take all the play out of the headset (rocking test) then the bars spin back to center very slowly if at all, and if headset pressure is set such that bars spin with necessary freedom, the headset is loose or just barely tight enough. It’s also seems like top cap is backing out more than I’d like, the whole system needing frequent retightenings. Sense something’s afoot.

are you sure there were not some parts left out or something in upside down like the split ring that jams in between the top bearing race and the steerer tube which someone did here on NSMB ?

[skinipenem]

Yeah, I've never gotten the whole "using inserts to change ride characteristics" thing. One big advantage of large volume tires is the large volume of air inside.
I use a Huck Norris in the rear as a rim protector, which is what inserts were designed to be. The HN does exactly what it's supposed to do and nothing more. It's light and completely unobtrusive.

I don't have a ton of experience with inserts. I rode my decoy stock without inserts a couple times then installed cushcore front and rear. I think... and this is a big maybe since I didn't a-b-a and instead a-b 'tested'.... that the bike accelerated slower, had a more damp planted feel with less deflection from hits, yet still gripped great in turns. That being said, in my experience the Decoy has a ton of traction in turns and drifts predictably.

I don't run super low pressures just because I have the inserts in; simply not my goal. About 25 front and 28 rear. Lower pressures feel too imprecise. I ping the rims with the same pressures on my new dh bike with dh cased tires and no inserts (haven't installed them yet as I'm likely selling the bike. ) I can't comment on cornering traction as I'm not dialed on the dh bike at all yet.

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[sfotex]

Alright… controversial point here but I don’t actually think the used bike market is all that much worse than it’s been in historic years. It’s nothing like it was in 2021 which is what I think is throwing people.

When I worked at shops, I’d buy a bike in the winter/spring and sell it early fall. I’d assume if I did well, I’d sell it for 40% off msrp if I sold it in late August. 50% if I held it a bit longer.

Things changed quickly but often 3-4 year old bikes depreciated a lot because designs were updated and standards changed. If you were selling a 2014 Santa Cruz in 2018… it would be a 2x drive train, non boost, old geo etc and you’d get $2000 for your previously $6000 bike. So let’s call that 65-70% depreciation. Standards are changing less these days but I think depreciation is holding steady with this.

Point being - new bikes from this spring during pre-Covid markets might be worth 50% of what you paid for them.

Bikes from 2020 should be roughly 65% of their previous value. So for example an $8000 bike from 2020 might be worth around $3000.

Did everyone just forget that bikes depreciate?

Prices are still all over the place. For every good deal I see there's 4x 'Bought this for <MSRP> last spring, didn't ride it much, asking <15% off MSRP> .
Seems like people can't give 27.5 bikes away. Definitely a buyers market.

Speaking of which, I'm looking at a 2018 Yeti SB5c tonight for $1500. Worth it? Looking for a trail bike to mess around on. I have plenty of XC bikes if I need to go fast. And I know 27.5 explodes when you crash, and is worst to be seen on then a moped with a fat chick on the back. Seems like the Infinity linkage is the thing to inspect on there?

[toast2266]

I think used bike prices are still weird just because the market hasn't been stable for the better part of a decade, and the market hasn't really arrived on a pricing scheme for used bikes.

From ~2014 through 2019ish, used bike prices were kinda all over the map because bikes were changing so quickly. There were plenty of times where the hot shit one year was outdated 16 months later, and that made pricing extremely variable.

And then covid hit and prices all went through the roof. But that blip was fairly short lived.

Now bike design has more or less settled out, and the covid surge has passed. But we haven't existed in this new normal for long enough for a general consensus to have been built on used bike pricing. It'll get there though. I bet things will be settled by next spring.

[XXX-er]

in 21 there were just no bikes so I sold my 2018 yeti 5.5 for a very good price to an MD cuz it didnt matter how much money she made there were no yeti's to buy and she really wanted one

so in 2021 I got 3800 for a 2018 bike that cost 5400can new