Ask the experts

[summit]

One of the ongoing threads within this shitshow thread is the perennial ‘what rear hub?’ question. Project 321 remains the benchmark as of 2022. I think I’ve posted before about the advantages over DT, CK, I9, Profile, yadda yadda. 321 is among the lightest but if you’re really focused on weight, order some Tunes from Germany

I enjoyed my 321s, not too loud, instant engagement, not heavy, but not the lightest.

P321 465g.

i9 1/1 475g

240EXP 54T 380g

Tunes Hillclimb/kill 330g

180EXP 54T 300g (all are 6 bolt except 180)

P321s are significantly pricier than i9 101s. 240EXP are significantly lighter than P321s without being much pricier. I'm considering the i9s for my next wheels due to cost over the P321s and the 240s.

[toast2266]

I still maintain that high engagement hubs make your suspension feel worse. A high engagement hub is essentially the opposite of those o-chain chainrings that reduce pedal kickback. Personally, I think around 50 points of engagement is the sweet spot.

[grskier]

I still maintain that high engagement hubs make your suspension feel worse. A high engagement hub is essentially the opposite of those o-chain chainrings that reduce pedal kickback. Personally, I think around 50 points of engagement is the sweet spot.

I've wondered about that, especially given all the talk about kickback, etc that has been surfacing. I guess I always liked that buzzing sound behind me, whether my hub or a buddies, as it conjured images of a wu tang video and a swarm of killer bees coming to attack... Gotta ride fast then... right.

[Wes Mantooth]

This is probably bound to start another civil war but I honestly know nothing about brakes these days and hoping for some restrained guidance.

I’m currently running Sram G2 R brakes with hundreds of rides on them and as they’re approaching the need for another bleed I’m considering upgrading since I’ve never really liked them. I’m very used to the feel at this point but the levers have always had a ton of slop and mush in them and they don’t have the power to really shut things down when needed

I’m looking for a nice mid quality brake that’s not stupid expensive. They’ll be going on a revel rascal that I use for everything. Weight isn’t really a concern since my bike is heavy as is. I’d say my riding is 85% trail 15% bike park and I do some casual DH racing in the summer

I sort of like that my current brakes don’t have a super aggressive bite point since it allows for a better range in modulation, but the lever feel sucks. I also like that they require very little maintenance and have stayed reliable over the years. Is it stupid to just upgrade to a Code RSC or should I be looking at other brands? There’re so many options and opinions out there it’s overwhelming for someone who hasn’t kept up to date


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[El Chupacabra]

You'll probably find big fans of each brand of brake. Me, I like Shimano, a lot -- to the point where I will strip off any SRAM brakes that come on a bike, sell them, and replace with Shimano. YMMV.

A non-fanboy point: if you have SRAM brakes and SRAM drivetrain, you may have a mount on your SRAM shifter that is semi-integrated into the brake mount. You can change brakes to other brands, but you will need to buy a separate shifter mount. They are cheap. Google "SRAM discrete shifter mount" and pick one -- ebay/ Amazon knockoffs work fine, it's just a band.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/30226614243...RoCgusQAvD_BwE

[toast2266]

This is probably bound to start another civil war but I honestly know nothing about brakes these days and hoping for some restrained guidance.

I’m currently running Sram G2 R brakes with hundreds of rides on them and as they’re approaching the need for another bleed I’m considering upgrading since I’ve never really liked them. I’m very used to the feel at this point but the levers have always had a ton of slop and mush in them and they don’t have the power to really shut things down when needed

I’m looking for a nice mid quality brake that’s not stupid expensive. They’ll be going on a revel rascal that I use for everything. Weight isn’t really a concern since my bike is heavy as is. I’d say my riding is 85% trail 15% bike park and I do some casual DH racing in the summer

I sort of like that my current brakes don’t have a super aggressive bite point since it allows for a better range in modulation, but the lever feel sucks. I also like that they require very little maintenance and have stayed reliable over the years. Is it stupid to just upgrade to a Code RSC or should I be looking at other brands? There’re so many options and opinions out there it’s overwhelming for someone who hasn’t kept up to date


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cheap option: upgrade to Guide RSC levers (keep your existing calipers). You'll get a much better lever feel, a little more power, and the contact point adjustability. If, after doing that, you still want more power, just get bigger rotors.

Codes RSC's offer more power overall, a better lever feel, and about the same level of maintenance. But getting a set of Codes will cost a healthy chunk more than just getting new levers.

I'll let someone else talk about how awesome Shimano brakes are, because personally I think they suck. Hayes Dominions seem solid, but they're about the same price as Codes.

[Dantheman]

Hayes Dominions seem solid, but they're about the same price as Codes.

Bike-Discount has a pretty sweet deal going on Dominions right now, even with the $50 shipping cost factored in: https://www.bike-discount.de/en/haye...&__delivery=28

Good prices at Jenson, too, that are $30-40 less than Codes. Out of stock but site says more arriving Monday: https://www.jensonusa.com/Hayes-Domi...iABEgKpxfD_BwE

Dominions also come with both semi-metallic and sintered pads (or at least they used to, been a while since I got any new ones), so factor a free spare set of pads into your pricing calculus.

[summit]

I still maintain that high engagement hubs make your suspension feel worse. A high engagement hub is essentially the opposite of those o-chain chainrings that reduce pedal kickback. Personally, I think around 50 points of engagement is the sweet spot.

My P321s and Roost had 215 and 150 points of engagement respectively, and I never felt kickback. Nor do my current 36 point 350s feel better suspension wise.

I do notice the 36 10deg engagement when I'm trying to ratchet a tech section, which I'm already not good at. I'll upgrade to 54T on these.

[singlesline]

I can't get myself on board with SRAM brakes because I just don't want to faff with DOT brake fluid. Big jug of mineral oil with indefinite shelf life and no concerns about cross contamination with bleed kit parts...easy.

Thankfully it seems like a lot of bike manufacturers are on board with this as it seems common to spec shimano brakes with a SRAM drivetrain, but I can't say I often see SRAM brakes specced on a shimano bike. Thanks to this, I've been able to avoid making the decision to strip and replace SRAM.

I guess I can be thankful that my road bike has mechanical brakes because I'm a SRAM fanboy there and there's no way to separate the shifter and the brake unit...

but who knows...maybe they spec shimano with SRAM drivetrains because shimano brakes suck and they can get them cheap? I'm not someone who seems to care too much about different brake setups, so it is easy to just say "give me mineral oil"

[toast2266]

My P321s and Roost had 215 and 150 points of engagement respectively, and I never felt kickback. Nor do my current 36 point 350s feel better suspension wise.

I do notice the 36 10deg engagement when I'm trying to ratchet a tech section, which I'm already not good at. I'll upgrade to 54T on these.

The kickback would mostly be noticeable at slower speeds. And different suspension designs will have more kickback than others. But it's definitely there. And really, I don't notice it as actual kickback in the pedals, I just notice that my suspension feels a little less supple; the chain is restricting the suspension movement.

Now, a lower engagement hub isn't going to make that much difference. And the difference it'll make is somewhat random - if the hub pawl is about to engage when you hit a bump then it doesn't really matter - you'll still get kickback because the freehub is engaged. But on a high engagement hub, the freehub is effectively always engaged, whereas on a lower engagement hub it can move a few degrees before it catches.

Really what that all means is that, if I'm spending a bunch of money on a hub, I'm going to buy the one that has the lowest engagement that's still fast enough to work for ratcheting up techy sections. And for me, that's around 50 points of engagement. And weight, durability, and price are all things that are more important than engagement to me. All of which brings me back to a 54t DT 240 being the ideal hub.

[grskier]

Now, a lower engagement hub isn't going to make that much difference. And the difference it'll make is somewhat random - if the hub pawl is about to engage when you hit a bump then it doesn't really matter - you'll still get kickback because the freehub is engaged. But on a high engagement hub, the freehub is effectively always engaged, whereas on a lower engagement hub it can move a few degrees before it catches.

b.

I was going to get into this dorky stuff but was already playing engineer at work today... don't want to double dip.

[toast2266]

I was going to get into this dorky stuff but was already playing engineer at work today... don't want to double dip.

It's a lot more fun to just play engineer on the internet. Less consequences.

[Wes Mantooth]

Bike-Discount has a pretty sweet deal going on Dominions right now, even with the $50 shipping cost factored in: https://www.bike-discount.de/en/haye...&__delivery=28

Good prices at Jenson, too, that are $30-40 less than Codes. Out of stock but site says more arriving Monday: https://www.jensonusa.com/Hayes-Domi...iABEgKpxfD_BwE

Dominions also come with both semi-metallic and sintered pads (or at least they used to, been a while since I got any new ones), so factor a free spare set of pads into your pricing calculus.

Shit that is a really good deal. $410 usd shipped for a full set with rotors. Tempting.

Haven’t run Hayes brakes since my old pair of Hayes Nines like 15 years ago

[Dantheman]

Shit that is a really good deal. $410 usd shipped for a full set with rotors. Tempting.

HavenÂ’t run Hayes brakes since my old pair of Hayes Nines like 15 years ago

I would definitely recommend getting the D-series rotors. Even after cooking the shit out of mine on 200k+ vert of steep descending they were still perfectly true and didn't squeal.

On a general Hayes/Manitou note, I may be an unabashed homer but I know the guy who runs the whole bike division there. His last job was head of Advanced Concepts at Fox and he's 110% committed to making the best stuff on the market.

[Spencer123]

Thanks John and Dannynoonan for the tips!

[Wes Mantooth]

I would definitely recommend getting the D-series rotors. Even after cooking the shit out of mine on 200k+ vert of steep descending they were still perfectly true and didn't squeal.

On a general Hayes/Manitou note, I may be an unabashed homer but I know the guy who runs the whole bike division there. His last job was head of Advanced Concepts at Fox and he's 110% committed to making the best stuff on the market.

I grabbed them, too good a deal! Got D series rotors as well, all for just over $400 shipped. Thanks for the PSA!

Can’t wait to go otb immediately when I squeeze them like I squeeze my G2s

[Dantheman]

Nice! Probably won't go OTB because the modulation is really good too.

Want a bleed kit? I'm pretty sure I have a spare I could give you for shipping.

[Norseman]

Just bought the Dominions, too. Thanks for the heads up.

[Kopi_Red]

I bought a pair of Dominions last year to replace some G2 R's that I hated. I love the Dominions. They are so good!

[Andeh]

My P321s and Roost had 215 and 150 points of engagement respectively, and I never felt kickback. Nor do my current 36 point 350s feel better suspension wise.

I do notice the 36 10deg engagement when I'm trying to ratchet a tech section, which I'm already not good at. I'll upgrade to 54T on these.

I didn't notice my suspension feeling any worse going from DT 240s (54t ratchet) to Hydras. If anything I thought it felt better because there's no slop followed by a clunk.

I did just order an O-Chain because I'm really curious how it feels. My GG has quite high anti-squat and pedal kickback, coupled with the Hydra should mean it's very noticeable. We'll see, if the Italians ever decide to ship it.

[El Chupacabra]

Did my first ever ride with a tire insert - a Nukeproof ARD, installed in the rear of a hardtail. Felt kind of wooden - normal? Used a little lower pressure than I would have without the insert, but wondering if I should drop it more.

Also have a pretty good tire wobble going on, and am wondering if the insert isn't seated quite right inside the casing. Tire bead is seated evenly all around on the wheel.

[summit]

I didn't notice my suspension feeling any worse going from DT 240s (54t ratchet) to Hydras. If anything I thought it felt better because there's no slop followed by a clunk.

I did just order an O-Chain because I'm really curious how it feels. My GG has quite high anti-squat and pedal kickback, coupled with the Hydra should mean it's very noticeable. We'll see, if the Italians ever decide to ship it.

So, O-Chain introduces fixed 6 to 12 degrees of adjustable slop to engagement on top of whatever your hub has (0-6.7deg on the 54t, 0-0.5deg on the hydra).

But if you didn't notice a difference going from 6.7 to 0.5, why are you looking for an O-chain?

[bonewrenched]

I grabbed them, too good a deal! Got D series rotors as well, all for just over $400 shipped. Thanks for the PSA!

Can’t wait to go otb immediately when I squeeze them like I squeeze my G2s

Hope you like them! I waffled on those when I was upgrading, but stuck with Shimano and went with Zees. I for one like the instant-on bite point

[jono]

So, O-Chain introduces fixed 6 to 12 degrees of adjustable slop to engagement on top of whatever your hub has (0-6.7deg on the 54t, 0-0.5deg on the hydra).

But if you didn't notice a difference going from 6.7 to 0.5, why are you looking for an O-chain?

Noticing it is going to be very personal. Some reasons have been noted, another is that if you tend to have the chain on a smaller cog for big hits that softens the effect compared to a big cog that moves more chain per degree (and effectively increases the inertial value of your legs/crank/pedals).

Shifting up can also be a coping mechanism, but obviously only to the degree that you're comfortable.

[Eluder]

Why do people with used Trust forks still think they are worth $800-1000?

You can literally find any other fork used for less.