Electric car thread

[plugboots]

I get that I’m kind of a buzz kill in this thread, but I really want to buy an EV. Chargers being out/broken is well known.

https://youtu.be/Bbsduv0vezo?si=HFxPxU7A9tHM6LwK

[toast2266]

I'm sure the situation with chargers being unavailable / broken will improve with time, but I'd still never buy an EV unless I'd be charging it at my house 95% of the time. They're just a shitty option if your primary use case is longer trips or if your living situation doesn't allow for home charging.

[XXX-er]

In view of Trump getting in and his disjointed rambling, what is the state of the EV in America

[neufox47]

My brother lives in Silicon Valley and doesn’t have a home charger. Guessing they have the best charger network in the country. He says it is pretty easy. They charge while at work daily and go to a local charger if trying to get a full charge before a road trip. I think their charging infrastructure proves your point.


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[californiagrown]

We are in the market for a new car in the next couple months. Criteria is that it needs to be AWD/4wd, have decent cargo (think small SUV or wagon), be around 50k out the door, and we would like it to be an EV. My wifes care is a POS that is falling apart (2011 escape) so we do actually NEED a new car here pretty soon.

Unfortunately, nothing currently on the market really excites us. So, we are looking at leasing something for 3 years, and then re-evaluating the EV market in 3 years to hopefully buy a 1yr old EV that we really, really like.

Can the TGRs school me on car leases (EV, hydrid, gas if there is a difference), what to watch out for, why and when they make sense, etc? Are EV leases crazy expensive or weird somehow? Would it be a better idea to buy and EV now and sell in 3 years instead of just leasing?

[XXX-er]

I am pretty sure leasing is alwasy net more expensive but you can easily google that question

[plugboots]

Oh boy, look into negotiating a lease and learn about money factor.
That said , frankly, I think you’d be crazy to buy an EV and not lease, considering how much technology is changing right now.

[chaka]

CG - I don't know shit about leases, sorry. But my wife recently picked up a 2025 Rav4 Hybrid and really likes it. Ticks all of your boxes.

[gravitylover]

Can the TGRs school me on car leases (EV, hydrid, gas if there is a difference), what to watch out for, why and when they make sense, etc? Are EV leases crazy expensive or weird somehow? Would it be a better idea to buy and EV now and sell in 3 years instead of just leasing?

I can't imagine bringing an EV home any way other than a lease. The whole thing is changing so quickly that whatever is new now will be nearly obsolete and probably worth half or less it's new cost in 2 years. Sure you'll spend a few more dollars but you won't be stuck with an albatross. I was on the phone with our insurance co recently and one thing they said stuck out with me, a big part of the way rates are determined is by the weight of the vehicle and e-cars are heavy. This came up because I was trying to get the rates down on 2 of our cars, my pos minivan with minimum coverages is way more expensive than it should be but because it's heavy the risk if it hits something smaller or a house is high so it costs more. The other thing that bugged me was what we're paying for our 2019 Kona, because it has every safety option available and the sensors are stupid expensive so the insurance is stupid expensive. E-cars have all of these sensors and they're heavy so you may pay (a lot) more than you want which might negate a fair bit of the savings so keep that in mind if you're thinking it may be a short term gap-filler until things in the e-car world shake out.

[El Chupacabra]

EVs seems to depreciate crazy fast. I'd look into lease costs if I were shopping for an EV.

I'd be much more inclined to go with hybrid or plug in hybrid if available - - really comes down to numbers for that choice.

If shopping today, I'd go check out the Toyota Crown Signia. I didn't even know this thing existed until very recently. Hybrid AWD RAV4 ish drivetrain inside of a plush wagon shape. The Crown sedan is kinda weird looking IMHO, but I like the looks of the Signia version.

https://www.toyota.com/crownsignia/

[Ørion]

When figuring depreciation you need to take into account that many new BEVs start with 10-20% off asking thanks to various federal and state incentives.

The new to used price drop isn't that egregiously different from ICE

[tetzen]

Check out Edmunds incentives to see what is being offered on the EV's and PHEV's at the moment. https://www.edmunds.com/car-incentives/
Also take a look at leasehackr.com to see what kinda offered deals are out there at the moment. You could probably get close to 50k out the door on some discounts and rebates at the moment on certain models that could be appealing. I find it's worth checking out the broker deals to give you an idea of what's achievable. If you put in the legwork, you can probably beat the broker deal by anywhere from $500-$1000, all in. The broker deals aren't half bad in some situations, if you want to save yourself the headache of dealing with dealerships.

Best thing to look at is the residual value and the money factor and see if you are beating the depreciation cost in the long haul.

We are in the market for a new car in the next couple months. Criteria is that it needs to be AWD/4wd, have decent cargo (think small SUV or wagon), be around 50k out the door, and we would like it to be an EV. My wifes care is a POS that is falling apart (2011 escape) so we do actually NEED a new car here pretty soon.

Unfortunately, nothing currently on the market really excites us. So, we are looking at leasing something for 3 years, and then re-evaluating the EV market in 3 years to hopefully buy a 1yr old EV that we really, really like.

Can the TGRs school me on car leases (EV, hydrid, gas if there is a difference), what to watch out for, why and when they make sense, etc? Are EV leases crazy expensive or weird somehow? Would it be a better idea to buy and EV now and sell in 3 years instead of just leasing?

[tetzen]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji640][emoji638][emoji639]]I get that I’m kind of a buzz kill in this thread, but I really want to buy an EV. Chargers being out/broken is well known.

https://youtu.be/Bbsduv[emoji[emoji6...;emoji638]]LwK

Yeah. I didn’t realize how pervasive the breakdowns were. It seems like companies are both cutting corners and over engineering these things. I should be able to charge without downloading an app, and these chargers need to at least put out a significant amount of power.


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[Huskier]

EVs seems to depreciate crazy fast. I'd look into lease costs if I were shopping for an EV.

I'd be much more inclined to go with hybrid or plug in hybrid if available - - really comes down to numbers for that choice.

If shopping today, I'd go check out the Toyota Crown Signia. I didn't even know this thing existed until very recently. Hybrid AWD RAV4 ish drivetrain inside of a plush wagon shape. The Crown sedan is kinda weird looking IMHO, but I like the looks of the Signia version.

https://www.toyota.com/crownsignia/

It seems market and model specific. Tesla is hot garbage because their model lifecycles are crazy long with very few meaningful updates. The car you can buy today is basically the same as the one 5 years ago. When Hertz unloaded their Teslas and they randomly started dropping prices on the new models the bottom kind of dropped out. I can get a low-ish mile '22 Model Y for about $26k, but I can't find a decent Rivian R1S of the same year for under 70 (MSRP 45 vs 82, so close to 40% depreciation for the Tesla vs like 12-15% for Rivian)

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[carlh]

Where are you seeing 22 model y for 26k? I’m mostly seeing them at 30+ unless it’s a rebuilt title.

[Touring_Sedan]

I was talking to one of the PR guys for Autotrader last week. They're rolling out ratings for the battery packs in used EV's. They're not just an average expected life for the model/mileage, but a vehicle specific health rating.

For instance......

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing








I think that's a game changer for the used EV market.

[Toadman]

That's a cool feature from Autotrader. Every dealer selling used BEV's should have that field on useful battery life.

[durangobrad]

Great idea from auto trader. I wonder what their test is? Just charge it to full and see what the display says it has for range?

Not sure how they got an excellent rating on that truck when the total range is well below factory rating.

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[californiagrown]

After looking around a little bit more, a 1 or 2 year old Mustang Mach-E seems to fit what we are looking for: AWD, midsize suv/wagon, ~$30k, and seems to get good overall reviews. In a couple years we could sell it for probably ~$20k (low mileage use), or just keep it as the town/commuter/grocery car which is really all it would be anyways. Its not going to be a roadtrip car so the range isnt super important (home ski hill is a 120mile RT). Basically it seems like a direct competitor to a Tesla Model Y (this comparison helps me get over the fact it looks nothing like what a mustang should look like).

Anyone have any experience with the Mach-E, or heard anything about them?

[toast2266]

After looking around a little bit more, a 1 or 2 year old Mustang Mach-E seems to fit what we are looking for: AWD, midsize suv/wagon, ~$30k, and seems to get good overall reviews. In a couple years we could sell it for probably ~$20k (low mileage use), or just keep it as the town/commuter/grocery car which is really all it would be anyways. Its not going to be a roadtrip car so the range isnt super important (home ski hill is a 120mile RT). Basically it seems like a direct competitor to a Tesla Model Y (this comparison helps me get over the fact it looks nothing like what a mustang should look like).

Anyone have any experience with the Mach-E, or heard anything about them?

I bought a used mach e a couple months ago. Basically did the exact same calculation you laid out; you can get a lightly used one for somewhere in the $30k's. At least around me, they were a good bit cheaper than the other comparable options, and reviews made it seem fine.

So far, I agree with the reviews. I've got maybe 2000 miles on mine and haven't had any issues. It's big enough to be useful, but small enough to not feel like a huge car. Mileage takes a serious hit in cold temps, but that was mostly expected (I also have winter tires and a roof box on mine, which isn't helping).

Main things I like:
-I can comfortably fit 2 adults + 2 kids with ski gear for everyone (skis in the roof box).
- it's stupid fast.
- there's a wireless charging pad in the place where you logically put your phone. All cars should have this.
- it has Bluetooth android auto / carplay. So the big screen in the console automatically loads that up whenever you get in the car. No need to fuss with wires and plugs. Works great.
- lots of options in the menus on the main console which are mostly laid out logically.

Things I don't like:
- doesn't feel like a big car in terms of size, but feels like a heavy car. Drives "bigger" than it is.
- the transition from regenerative braking to regular brakes is sometimes not smooth at slow speeds.
-I feel like the screen behind the steering wheel could do a better job of displaying useful information.
- often feels like driving a computer (which it is). Makes me nervous since computers aren't really known for longevity. I'm not sure this is any different than any other modern car though.
- calling it a mustang feels wrong.

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[liv2ski]

I really love VW vans and yes, I want the new one, but the EV setup really puts me off. I would of been interested in a hybrid system but straight EV for $70k + tax and ? is a bitter pill to swallow.

[plugboots]

I really love VW vans and yes, I want the new one, but the EV setup really puts me off. I would of been interested in a hybrid system but straight EV for $70k + tax and ? is a bitter pill to swallow.

Agree, I was looking forward to it. The price and the range bummed me out. Kind of surprised on the range. I thought the van design, where you could just ram as many batteries as you want between the tires would lend itself to more range.

[Dromond]

I bought a used mach e a couple months ago. Basically did the exact same calculation you laid out; you can get a lightly used one for somewhere in the $30k's. At least around me, they were a good bit cheaper than the other comparable options, and reviews made it seem fine.

So far, I agree with the reviews. I've got maybe 2000 miles on mine and haven't had any issues. It's big enough to be useful, but small enough to not feel like a huge car. Mileage takes a serious hit in cold temps, but that was mostly expected (I also have winter tires and a roof box on mine, which isn't helping).

Main things I like:
-I can comfortably fit 2 adults + 2 kids with ski gear for everyone (skis in the roof box).
- it's stupid fast.
- there's a wireless charging pad in the place where you logically put your phone. All cars should have this.
- it has Bluetooth android auto / carplay. So the big screen in the console automatically loads that up whenever you get in the car. No need to fuss with wires and plugs. Works great.
- lots of options in the menus on the main console which are mostly laid out logically.

Things I don't like:
- doesn't feel like a big car in terms of size, but feels like a heavy car. Drives "bigger" than it is.
- the transition from regenerative braking to regular brakes is sometimes not smooth at slow speeds.
-I feel like the screen behind the steering wheel could do a better job of displaying useful information.
- often feels like driving a computer (which it is). Makes me nervous since computers aren't really known for longevity. I'm not sure this is any different than any other modern car though.
- calling it a mustang feels wrong.

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How long are the winter trips you have been taking fully loaded with the winter tires and box? Mostly highway driving?

[toast2266]

How long are the winter trips you have been taking fully loaded with the winter tires and box? Mostly highway driving?

Not particularly long. I'm mostly using it for commuting and trips to the ski hill, both of which aren't very far. A normal day of driving might be 40-50 miles of mixed town / highway. The higher speeds definitely are harder on the battery than around town stuff.

I usually only charge to 85% (better for the battery), and once I get down around 30% I'll recharge overnight in my garage. I usually end up charging it every couple of days. I'd say with a full 100% charge, with winter tires and the roof box, in 20° temps, I'd probably make it around 160 or 170 miles. Maybe a little more if I kept my foot light. Maybe a little less if the drive involved a lot of elevation gain.

I bought the car in November, so I haven't really had a chance to see how it'll shake out in warmer temps and with summer tires.

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[Huskier]

Where are you seeing 22 model y for 26k? I’m mostly seeing them at 30+ unless it’s a rebuilt title.

https://atcm.co/VDPTXTSHRE/2bef46a7

Northeast and central East coast

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