Athletic performance in your 40s?

[frorider]

I haven’t paid much attention to TRT but my understanding is that once yer on it, the body stops making it & if you stop TRT you’re then well below the good levels. So it’s a recipe for a solid revenue stream for Big Pharma.

I think it’s better to choose parents with good genes.

[sb]

I have lernt to go at my own pace and do what I can when I can. Being newly retired and knot working shifts oar under toxic management is a great big MF win!

Going for the regular ride on mah Ebike in a bit.

[SumJongGuy]

Athletic performance in your 40's = TRT. Has that joke been made yet? Natural decline is the unsolvable problem, TRT is the answer.

Funny enough to post again..

[jackstraw]

As of this week I am 39.3 years old or thereabouts. Also in this week I am 2 years and 2 months into a solid reinvestment in my health and endurance sport ambitions. Age 40 is looming near. In June of 2017 I was inspired to get off the couch and start exercising with purpose for the first time in over a decade. I heard about this new mountain race that was coming to town in 10 weeks on a rad route and I was stoked to have reason to get after it.

Every day after working construction I would make the 2 minute detour to the ski hill parking lot and do a lap. 5 days a week no matter what. A basic lap is 2000 ft over 5 miles up and down. It would usually take 1:05 to 1:10. I weighed 230 at 6’ 1” and soon dropped 20 pounds over a month or so and now am around 195-205. All hiking stride, no real running.

On a Saturday about a week out from the race I was cruising down the mountain and I saw all of these people slogging up the hill in full zombie status. “They must be in that AlaskaMan race I heard about this morning?” I thought. The people looked dead.

This was maybe 3pm and they had already swam 2.7 miles in Seward then biked 115 miles to Girdwood then ran 20 miles and now last 7 miles of marathon run was double lap up Alyeska. I couldn’t believe it. Where can I sign up?!

I did the mountain run a week later on mushrooms and it was pretty fun as far as drug augmented extreme cardio work goes. My legs were in half decent shape but I could tell that they did not like what I was doing to them. I was 19th with time of 1:30, winners were 1:05. Don’t call it a comeback.

Now I had to up my game. For the next year I squeezed in anywhere from 5-15 hours a week of swim/bike/run training on top of 50 hour work weeks with my eyes on the prize. I had always previously thought spandex was gay and road biking in general was gay and I was indifferent to swimming though I appreciated being in warm water. But this race was more then ‘triathlon’ to me. I was an epic adventure right in my backyard that I had to partake in and I really just wanted to survive it, let alone compete.

I scratched the ski season of 17-18 and moved the family to Kona for the winter under the guise of ‘spending time with the family’ but my wife knew what was up. Every moment of every day I was somewhat preoccupied with my ‘training’. I was now wearing spandex on a daily basis. I thought about FTP and HR and cadence and nutrition and vert and miles and hours. What had my life become?

I was more tanned and fit then ever before including my far gone youth when I sure usetocould. But at what cost? Back to Alaska in the spring and epic 60-70 hour work scene with me trying to max out training hours and then taper to big dumb race. I told myself long work hours mimicked the long game mindset needed to survive a IronMan + distance race. Over training probably in effect. In the last 2 years I have had so many haggard days at work because I did some 10 mile run and 2 hour Zwift combo the night before. Why, oh God, must I endure?

I survived the race and even did half decent with 20th place out of 200. It was the longest most horrible thing I had ever done on the hottest day of the year no less. 15.5 hours of self propelled motion half way across the state it felt like. For about a week after I swore I would never do that again. But then the little voice spoke up again and thought I could probably break 14 hours next year, maybe get top 10…?

So onward I trained with many shorter races sprinkled through out. Six 5ks, three 10ks, four Half marathon and a trail marathon or so later and I feel like the drug of ‘improvement’ has given away to ‘law diminishing returns’.

5k at 17:30, 10k at 37 and half at 1:19. How much harder do I have to train to get a 1:15 half… ?! What is the point?

I did the big AlaskaMan race again this summer, about a month ago. I felt strong. I had another year of solid training under my belt. I would crack top 10. I had a few tricks up my sleeve. First, home court advantage is worth a lot especially on this course. There is a section of the run that was endless and horrible so I focused on hitting that section tired over and over this spring and summer.

I was cranking out 15 mile runs easy now with no residual soreness the next day. Getting the volume up took way longer then I thought it would. The weeks leading up to race day were hotter then shit. Global warming I guess but Girdwood has never seen a month straight of 85 deg ever. The week of the race temps bumped up to 90 on race day. And then the smoke… huge forest fires raged down on the peninsula and all of south central was affected.

The morning of the race in Seward the smoke sat thick on the water. I struggled through the swim each breath tasting the smoke. I was 20th or so out of the water but with quick transition hit the road and bumped my way to 10th. I felt like I could not get my heart rate down below 160 and I was aiming for 140ish. Legs felt leaden.

By Moose Pass 40 miles in I have runny nose and itchy eyes and head ache that wont go away. My ego is driving me. I want to stop because it is so counter intuitive of activity to be doing so whole heartedly.

Up in Summit Pass the sky clears a bit and I feel optimistic. Descent to Hope Junction, climb to top of Turnagain. Head ache still there. Time to break out secret weapon. Similar mushroom treat that I had back in mountain race 2 years earlier with positive results. It was such good results that I swore to not use it again lest I come to rely on mushrooms for peak performance, placebo effect or otherwise.

This was a special case. I was 75 miles into 115 mile ride with only the most horrible to to come. I actually planned on taking the mushrooms about 15 miles into run section but things changed. I choked down the fudge chocolate jalepeno hot brownie thing. The air was hot, my water was hot my mouth was now hot. Fun times.

I dropped into the Turnagain Pass descent with renewed vigor. Bombing 50 mph plus along side endless stream of big rigs and motor home towing 30 ft boats. Who has the time and money for something so frivolous as fishing I often wonder. This feels dangerous but my headache is gone for the first time in 4 hours. My legs were strong again and I passed a couple of guys when we got to the flats.

Oh, but then the mushrooms actually kicked in around the Portage Road turn off. The little voice in my head that had been saying Go! Go! For over two years straight began to get quiet. My legs began to get heavy. I was tired and I knew what pain was to come. That was the difference from last year when I was just proving to myself that I could do it. Last year when I almost actually cried with joy upon finishing the swim section as humble adult onset swimmer.

Now this year I knew I could do it but I just didn’t want to anymore. Top 10, what does that mean? It was hot as shit out. I could see Girdwood Valley about 10 miles up shrouded in brown veil of thick smoke. I had to cross multiple highway bridges with no shoulder and big rigs and construction and WTF was I doing out here? I started to notice the reflections in the nice ponds along the highway and instead of thinking of swimming a few laps in there I thought about how I should make time to take my kids fishing. Make time to go camping. Make time to just be there for them instead of cramming every moment with Train! Train! Train! “But that is the part of me that keeps me sane,” I tell myself. Is it really?! What about art, what about writing, what about home improvements. What about maintaining composure when the kids are being annoying as heck and you don’t want to be there at that moment, kind of like this race. Am I building more character or tearing things down at this point?

Girdwood is at mile 90 of the course. My house is a couple hundred yards off course at Mile 90. At mile 85 I knew I was done. I just had to get home and off this highway. It felt overwhelming and dangerous and I felt out of place and I could not comprehend my motivations for having come this far.

After 5 hours of biking I pulled into my driveway and called it a day. A beer never tasted so good as it was like a veil or a curse had been lifted from my brain that day. My competitive spirit had been crushed and I was elated.

Epilogue: a month later I did the 3rd annual mountain run that had so inspired me three years ago to get off the couch. I got 42nd out of 500 with time of 1:26 and was nonplussed. My competitive spirit managed to climb out of the shallow grave I had thrown it in along the ditch of that hot highway but then I squashed it under my boot in the race as I was trying to make conversation with people and realized that I did not not want to ‘get after it that hard.’

So this last week I have taken a break which is weird because I don’t feel over trained. I feel peppy and strong and was planning on doing this 5k race on Saturday (2 days ago). But when the alarm went off at 7am I didn’t want to get up so I didn’t. Evidence of an attitude which is antithetical to being competitive.

But I don’t want to get fat, what should I do?

So what would you call your disorder?

[Mofro261]

So what would you call your disorder?

Most call it type A.

[iceman]

Yeah I was gonna say, maybe find a middle ground? It's not binary.

[DBdude]

I woke up this morning and fucking cramped my left calf muscle just by rolling the wrong way. Jezuz. It was sore until about 9am, a little. God's way of punishing me for not hydrating enough in the hot summer after a 180 mile week or so, but still. Injured before my feet hit the floor.

if i stretch wrong in bed while not thinking (i know I shouldn't stretch in bed) can mean instant no walking and crawl to car to get chiropractor treatment

[old goat]

The enthusiasm for TRT reminds me of the earlier enthusiasm for estrogen replacement therapy, which was supposed to keep women young forever. It took decades for the risks to become apparent and ERT is now rarely prescribed for menopausal and post menopausal women. There appears to be no large, long term study on the effectiveness and safety of TRT. In any case, aging is a lot more complicated than the lack of one hormone.

[Meadow Skipper]

As of this week I am 39.3 years old or thereabouts. Also in this week I am 2 years and 2 months into a solid reinvestment in my health and endurance sport ambitions. Age 40 is looming near. In June of 2017 I was inspired to get off the couch and start exercising with purpose for the first time in over a decade. I heard about this new mountain race that was coming to town in 10 weeks on a rad route and I was stoked to have reason to get after it.

Every day after working construction I would make the 2 minute detour to the ski hill parking lot and do a lap. 5 days a week no matter what. A basic lap is 2000 ft over 5 miles up and down. It would usually take 1:05 to 1:10. I weighed 230 at 6’ 1” and soon dropped 20 pounds over a month or so and now am around 195-205. All hiking stride, no real running.

On a Saturday about a week out from the race I was cruising down the mountain and I saw all of these people slogging up the hill in full zombie status. “They must be in that AlaskaMan race I heard about this morning?” I thought. The people looked dead.

This was maybe 3pm and they had already swam 2.7 miles in Seward then biked 115 miles to Girdwood then ran 20 miles and now last 7 miles of marathon run was double lap up Alyeska. I couldn’t believe it. Where can I sign up?!

I did the mountain run a week later on mushrooms and it was pretty fun as far as drug augmented extreme cardio work goes. My legs were in half decent shape but I could tell that they did not like what I was doing to them. I was 19th with time of 1:30, winners were 1:05. Don’t call it a comeback.

Now I had to up my game. For the next year I squeezed in anywhere from 5-15 hours a week of swim/bike/run training on top of 50 hour work weeks with my eyes on the prize. I had always previously thought spandex was gay and road biking in general was gay and I was indifferent to swimming though I appreciated being in warm water. But this race was more then ‘triathlon’ to me. I was an epic adventure right in my backyard that I had to partake in and I really just wanted to survive it, let alone compete.

I scratched the ski season of 17-18 and moved the family to Kona for the winter under the guise of ‘spending time with the family’ but my wife knew what was up. Every moment of every day I was somewhat preoccupied with my ‘training’. I was now wearing spandex on a daily basis. I thought about FTP and HR and cadence and nutrition and vert and miles and hours. What had my life become?

I was more tanned and fit then ever before including my far gone youth when I sure usetocould. But at what cost? Back to Alaska in the spring and epic 60-70 hour work scene with me trying to max out training hours and then taper to big dumb race. I told myself long work hours mimicked the long game mindset needed to survive a IronMan + distance race. Over training probably in effect. In the last 2 years I have had so many haggard days at work because I did some 10 mile run and 2 hour Zwift combo the night before. Why, oh God, must I endure?

I survived the race and even did half decent with 20th place out of 200. It was the longest most horrible thing I had ever done on the hottest day of the year no less. 15.5 hours of self propelled motion half way across the state it felt like. For about a week after I swore I would never do that again. But then the little voice spoke up again and thought I could probably break 14 hours next year, maybe get top 10…?

So onward I trained with many shorter races sprinkled through out. Six 5ks, three 10ks, four Half marathon and a trail marathon or so later and I feel like the drug of ‘improvement’ has given away to ‘law diminishing returns’.

5k at 17:30, 10k at 37 and half at 1:19. How much harder do I have to train to get a 1:15 half… ?! What is the point?

I did the big AlaskaMan race again this summer, about a month ago. I felt strong. I had another year of solid training under my belt. I would crack top 10. I had a few tricks up my sleeve. First, home court advantage is worth a lot especially on this course. There is a section of the run that was endless and horrible so I focused on hitting that section tired over and over this spring and summer.

I was cranking out 15 mile runs easy now with no residual soreness the next day. Getting the volume up took way longer then I thought it would. The weeks leading up to race day were hotter then shit. Global warming I guess but Girdwood has never seen a month straight of 85 deg ever. The week of the race temps bumped up to 90 on race day. And then the smoke… huge forest fires raged down on the peninsula and all of south central was affected.

The morning of the race in Seward the smoke sat thick on the water. I struggled through the swim each breath tasting the smoke. I was 20th or so out of the water but with quick transition hit the road and bumped my way to 10th. I felt like I could not get my heart rate down below 160 and I was aiming for 140ish. Legs felt leaden.

By Moose Pass 40 miles in I have runny nose and itchy eyes and head ache that wont go away. My ego is driving me. I want to stop because it is so counter intuitive of activity to be doing so whole heartedly.

Up in Summit Pass the sky clears a bit and I feel optimistic. Descent to Hope Junction, climb to top of Turnagain. Head ache still there. Time to break out secret weapon. Similar mushroom treat that I had back in mountain race 2 years earlier with positive results. It was such good results that I swore to not use it again lest I come to rely on mushrooms for peak performance, placebo effect or otherwise.

This was a special case. I was 75 miles into 115 mile ride with only the most horrible to to come. I actually planned on taking the mushrooms about 15 miles into run section but things changed. I choked down the fudge chocolate jalepeno hot brownie thing. The air was hot, my water was hot my mouth was now hot. Fun times.

I dropped into the Turnagain Pass descent with renewed vigor. Bombing 50 mph plus along side endless stream of big rigs and motor home towing 30 ft boats. Who has the time and money for something so frivolous as fishing I often wonder. This feels dangerous but my headache is gone for the first time in 4 hours. My legs were strong again and I passed a couple of guys when we got to the flats.

Oh, but then the mushrooms actually kicked in around the Portage Road turn off. The little voice in my head that had been saying Go! Go! For over two years straight began to get quiet. My legs began to get heavy. I was tired and I knew what pain was to come. That was the difference from last year when I was just proving to myself that I could do it. Last year when I almost actually cried with joy upon finishing the swim section as humble adult onset swimmer.

Now this year I knew I could do it but I just didn’t want to anymore. Top 10, what does that mean? It was hot as shit out. I could see Girdwood Valley about 10 miles up shrouded in brown veil of thick smoke. I had to cross multiple highway bridges with no shoulder and big rigs and construction and WTF was I doing out here? I started to notice the reflections in the nice ponds along the highway and instead of thinking of swimming a few laps in there I thought about how I should make time to take my kids fishing. Make time to go camping. Make time to just be there for them instead of cramming every moment with Train! Train! Train! “But that is the part of me that keeps me sane,” I tell myself. Is it really?! What about art, what about writing, what about home improvements. What about maintaining composure when the kids are being annoying as heck and you don’t want to be there at that moment, kind of like this race. Am I building more character or tearing things down at this point?

Girdwood is at mile 90 of the course. My house is a couple hundred yards off course at Mile 90. At mile 85 I knew I was done. I just had to get home and off this highway. It felt overwhelming and dangerous and I felt out of place and I could not comprehend my motivations for having come this far.

After 5 hours of biking I pulled into my driveway and called it a day. A beer never tasted so good as it was like a veil or a curse had been lifted from my brain that day. My competitive spirit had been crushed and I was elated.

Epilogue: a month later I did the 3rd annual mountain run that had so inspired me three years ago to get off the couch. I got 42nd out of 500 with time of 1:26 and was nonplussed. My competitive spirit managed to climb out of the shallow grave I had thrown it in along the ditch of that hot highway but then I squashed it under my boot in the race as I was trying to make conversation with people and realized that I did not not want to ‘get after it that hard.’

So this last week I have taken a break which is weird because I don’t feel over trained. I feel peppy and strong and was planning on doing this 5k race on Saturday (2 days ago). But when the alarm went off at 7am I didn’t want to get up so I didn’t. Evidence of an attitude which is antithetical to being competitive.

Epic, simply epic.

But I don’t want to get fat, what should I do?

Walk down the hill and fuck all of them?

[iceman]

At least the mushrooms worked right the second time.

[swissiphic]

As of this week I am 39.3 years old or thereabouts.....

Best read on TGR since yer post on that legendary Alaska skier guy and vids.

[Danno]

At least the mushrooms worked right the second time.

no shit

[Dantheman]

Sprint thing for me is a nine-10 minute mile five times per week. Ha ha

Point of order--That's not "sprinting" by even the loosest possible definition. Not even close. A "sprint" lasts 30 seconds max and at the end you are doubled over gasping for breath wondering if you should lie down because you think you might pass out, and you need 3-4 minutes of recovery before you can do another 30-second effort.

Carry on.

The enthusiasm for TRT reminds me of the earlier enthusiasm for estrogen replacement therapy, which was supposed to keep women young forever. It took decades for the risks to become apparent and ERT is now rarely prescribed for menopausal and post menopausal women. There appears to be no large, long term study on the effectiveness and safety of TRT. In any case, aging is a lot more complicated than the lack of one hormone.

Agreed, it's hard to not see the parallels. On the other hand, in the TRT thread some people were reporting levels as low as <10 ng/dL which can't be good for your long-term health either. What's worse, living with the T levels of a prepubescent girl or using TRT to get back up to something on the low end of average, like ~300 ng/dL? We're not talking about bodybuilders juicing themselves up 2000+ ng/dL.

[old goat]

Point of order--That's not "sprinting" by even the loosest possible definition. Not even close. A "sprint" lasts 30 seconds max and at the end you are doubled over gasping for breath wondering if you should lie down because you think you might pass out, and you need 3-4 minutes of recovery before you can do another 30-second effort.

Carry on.



Agreed, it's hard to not see the parallels. On the other hand, in the TRT thread some people were reporting levels as low as <10 ng/dL which can't be good for your long-term health either. What's worse, living with the T levels of a prepubescent girl or using TRT to get back up to something on the low end of average, like ~300 ng/dL? We're not talking about bodybuilders juicing themselves up 2000+ ng/dL.

I'm not saying yea or nay, only that good data is lacking. Give it to everyone over 40 or only with documented low levels and if so how low and for how long and at what dose? Medical practice is way ahead of the evidence on this one. One thing is certain--as long as there is a human race people will search for the fountain of youth.

[Dantheman]

Agree, but much easier said than done in a lot of cases. Throw in a serious injury, illness, disease, raising a family, caring for your parents, and the list goes on.

Meh, I lose weight when I'm injured or sick (disclaimer: not 40 yet). Eat a whole food-based diet, throw in a 5/2 or alternate-day fasting regimen and just try to get fat.

Wait, you eat less when you drink? I eat anything that isn't nailed down.

Seriously. Booze munchies are waaay worse than weed munchies.

[XXX-er]

.But I don’t want to get fat, what should I do?

portion control and cut out sugar

[SumJongGuy]

Seriously. Booze munchies are waaay worse than weed munchies.

Clearly you are not in the league I was in... Starting with liquid lunch then past fuck dinner deep in to the twilight hours of non stop drinking and partying had me down to about a buck o five before I quit booze. I'm now a stout 170..

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
Seriously. Booze munchies are waaay worse than weed munchies.

I think that you should entertain the possibility that there may be something wrong with your weed.

[SumJongGuy]

I think that you should entertain the possibility that there may be something wrong with your weed.

[bodywhomper]

Before I turned 40, I had some persistent lower back problems. I saw a physiatrist on referral. By the time I saw him, my back issues had calmed down for the time being. The physiatrist recommended the new (at the time) Starrett book, Ready to Run. Focus is on shoe choice, foot health, and exercises to improve running biomechanics and mobility, with the goal/concept that running should/can be something that we do, injury free, into old age. The book and its exercises have been helpful for me.

[bagtagley]

I think that you should entertain the possibility that there may be something wrong with your weed.

Not unless you're using "wrong" to mean "really good".

I can relate. I'm high (often) enough that it doesn't really effect my desire to eat. The off button breaks when I'm drunk.

[skaredshtles]

Not unless you're using "wrong" to mean "really good".

I can relate. I'm high (often) enough that it doesn't really effect my desire to eat. The off button breaks when I'm drunk.

I gotta say... it sounds really weird. Are you targeting strains that don't, anecdotally at least, have the munchies as an "effect"?

[Mofro261]

Clearly you are not in the league I was in... Starting with liquid lunch then past fuck dinner deep in to the twilight hours of non stop drinking and partying had me down to about a buck o five before I quit booze. I'm now a stout 170..

so you can't be much taller than like 4'6" if you were down to 105...

[Mofro261]

I gotta say... it sounds really weird. Are you targeting strains that don't, anecdotally at least, have the munchies as an "effect"?

I get the opposite of the muchies 9/10. Don't have a desire to eat when high, sort of an appetite suppressant for me too.

[skaredshtles]

I get the opposite of the muchies 9/10. Don't have a desire to eat when high, sort of an appetite suppressant for me too.

I'll be darned.

Carry on all you munchie-less stoners!