I’m not saying Christianity correlates with stupidity, but...

[phatty]

Pretty evenhanded article from a member of the church. has the church issued a statement in response? "Grossly exaggerated", maybe?

Disclaimer - I'm active LDS, so I assume my comments will be dismissed. [emoji6]

I'm not a huge fan of Jana Reiss, but agree with Iceman that the Trib article is fairly even-handed. The whistle-blower will need to come with a lot more if they want to prove the accusations.

Article with Church statement found here: https://www.heraldextra.com/news/loc...d4b77f7dc.html

From what I see, nobody's pockets are getting lined. Only the highest levels of the church get even a living stipend and only if they are required quit/retire for the church position due to time requirements. Many that have their own means donate the stipend back. Church employees are paid similar to government wages. I don't see anyone living lavish or flying private jets.

I didn't love City Creek, but it created a lot of jobs and has enhanced downtown SLC (spoken as an outsider who visits a few times a year). I would think most visitors have no idea it was built by the church. I also wish we did a little more humanitarian aid, but they are doing close to $1B a year, which is not nothing. I've seen local ward units do a pretty good job of looking out for their own.

[glademaster]

I would think most visitors have no idea it was built by the church.

Unless they try to visit on a Sunday, of course.

That being said, I lived in between Temple Square and the Capitol for about a year, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I had a great view of the rotunda at the capitol building and of that golden statue of Miles Davis wailing on the trumpet on top of the Temple from my kitchen.

I'm not a city person, but if you held a gun to my head and made me pick, SLC would certainly make the short list.

Most religions are just as greedy and money-grubbing as the LDS Church, but they're(the Mormons) at least a little more intellectually honest about it than others.

[Boissal]

I also wish we did a little more humanitarian aid, but they are doing close to $1B a year, which is not nothing. I've seen local ward units do a pretty good job of looking out for their own.

When sitting on over $100B of tax-exempt assets the proper fucking thing to do would be to spend a bit more than 1% on humanitarian aid to at least pretend to adhere to those christian principles the church so deeply cherishes. And maybe refrain from using some of those $$ to support any number of abhorrent policies at the state and national level.
As far as looking out for their own, how about not charging the families of those young ones they send out to proselytize? Double dipping at its fucking best. Strip the church of its tax exempt status, it's nothing but a racketeering enterprise (along with every other organized religion, wouldn't want to single out anyone here).

How rich is it to claim that the $$ is getting stockpiled because it will be needed at the time of the 2nd coming of Jeebus? Will the stock market be getting a bump when that happens?

[SkiBall]

This stuff is becoming too common. The louder they say it, the more I question.
https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/...hrough-grindr/
Church Leader Who Condemns Homosexuality Caught Trolling for Sex Through Grindr

The Kirksville Church of Christ in Missouri has a few “facts” that they would like you to know. The “Bible is the only creed,” for example. No surprise there.

If you visit their Facebook page, they get even more specific. Like this message saying you must not have sex outside of marriage, especially none of that gay stuff.
You would think Barry Poyner would know all this since he’s one of the church’s three elders in addition to being a professor at nearby Truman State University.
Barry Cole Poyner, 57, of Kirksville, has been charged with a class B misdemeanor count of patronizing prostitution.

According to court documents, Poyner faces up to six months in prison and/or a fine up to $1,000 if convicted.

Documents state the Truman State University Police Department received a tip that Poyner has been “harassing male Truman students for sexual contact as well as offering to pay for items for sexual favors by using the app Grindr.”

[Dantheman]

Disclaimer - I'm active LDS, so I assume my comments will be dismissed. [emoji6]

I'm not a huge fan of Jana Reiss, but agree with Iceman that the Trib article is fairly even-handed. The whistle-blower will need to come with a lot more if they want to prove the accusations.

Article with Church statement found here: https://www.heraldextra.com/news/loc...d4b77f7dc.html

From what I see, nobody's pockets are getting lined. Only the highest levels of the church get even a living stipend and only if they are required quit/retire for the church position due to time requirements. Many that have their own means donate the stipend back. Church employees are paid similar to government wages. I don't see anyone living lavish or flying private jets.

I didn't love City Creek, but it created a lot of jobs and has enhanced downtown SLC (spoken as an outsider who visits a few times a year). I would think most visitors have no idea it was built by the church. I also wish we did a little more humanitarian aid, but they are doing close to $1B a year, which is not nothing. I've seen local ward units do a pretty good job of looking out for their own.

That article says the church claims to have spent $2.2 billion on humanitarian aid since the late '80s, so I don't know how you're getting a billion per year.

Considering the political bent of the average Mormon, especially in Utah, it's absolutely incredible that members are willing to accept the church having virtually no financial accountability. When billions of dollars are being handled annually without any transparency corruption is inevitable.

That article also says he's asking for the reward financial whistleblowers can claim under the law, and he's recently left the church and has an axe to grind, so he definitely has an agenda. If he's full of shit he's also guilty of perjury and could go to prison. He's either right or really stupid. Going to be very interesting to see how this plays out.

[SkiBall]

Aren't they trying to ensure their way into the everafter with faith and ducats? I thought that was how it works. Short term sacrifices in this lifetime for eternal happiness after?

[iceman]

Most religions are just as greedy and money-grubbing at the LDS Church, but they're at least a little more intellectually honest about it than others.

Disappointing.

[jackstraw]

Disappointing.

Disappointing that so many people in this world believe in fairytales and give their money away to greedy manipulative fucks?

[ex-powderbroker]

taxes > philanthropy

[Marshall Tucker]

Just, for the record, by most standards I'm fairly religious / protestant denomination. I don't read this thread because you all are railing on society, even if you think you are railing on religion. The church, temple, mosque, etc. they all have good and bad people. just as there are good and bad people in the starbucks you stopped at today.

I beleive in this. Not sorry if it offends.



/ carry on.

[Bunion 2020]

My Belief System is based upon: Believe whatever the fuck you wish, be it Religion, Gender/Sexual Orientation or Politics.

Just keep it to yourself.

[jackstraw]

.

I beleive in this. Not sorry if it offends.



/ carry on.

The first one...whatever floats your boat, sure. The second one, 100%. But that doesn't have to have any relationship to religion. That is just being a good human.

I have no issue with you saying I'm coming down on society, as the majority of society is religious, so by default it is the society of the religious state.

[PNWbrit]

Disappointing.

Pope removes shroud of secrecy from clergy sex abuse cases

^ That it took that long.

[XXX-er]

My Belief System is based upon: Believe whatever the fuck you wish, be it Religion, Gender/Sexual Orientation or Politics.

Just keep it to yourself.

and when does that ever happen without Somebody will organizing it, tything it , claiming their idea is the best one

and eventualy do things that are bad but have already been covered in the bible ... human nature eh ?

[Bunion 2020]

Whenever more than 3 people get involved.

[hutash]

Just, for the record, by most standards I'm fairly religious / protestant denomination. I don't read this thread because you all are railing on society, even if you think you are railing on religion. The church, temple, mosque, etc. they all have good and bad people. just as there are good and bad people in the starbucks you stopped at today.

I beleive in this. Not sorry if it offends.



/ carry on.

Unfortunately most religious people don't follow either, as much as they claim to.

[Dantheman]

I beleive in this. Not sorry if it offends.



/ carry on.

I'm fairly confident that practically no one here is offended by that and practically everyone agrees with the latter statement. The former statement just happens to be a completely independent belief.

[KQ]

really this could go in one of two threads but I'll put it here:

[Kevo]

I'm willing to look into a hat and tell anyone the secrets of the universe so long as they give me 10% of their lifetime earnings.

[skaredshtles]

really this could go in one of two threads but I'll put it here:

Probably should avoid modern medicine as well.

Hell - probably should avoid ALL medicine, modern or otherwise.

'Cause, you know, Jesus-shield.

[skaredshtles]

I'm willing to look into a hat and tell anyone the secrets of the universe so long as they give me 10% of their lifetime earnings.

10%? I'd do it for 5%...

[KQ]

Probably should avoid modern medicine as well.

Hell - probably should avoid ALL medicine, modern or otherwise.

'Cause, you know, Jesus-shield.

If only all those people who died of the plague had been Christians............

[Benny Profane]

really this could go in one of two threads but I'll put it here:

I was having this conversation the other night, marvelling at the state of modern medicine we live in. It started with artificial joints, which, in just fifty years, have dramatically improved the quality of life for older people. But, there hasn't been a major pandemic in a century, since the 1918 flu world-wide massacre, which I find amazing, because we live with modern transportation, that can deposit a very toxic person in another place on the other side of the world in hours. I learned from Ken Burns Country Music that TB was the top killer in the U.S. as late as the 1940s. Where is it now? We're commiting collective suicide as a society, dying from very preventable heart disease and cancers, most due to life choices , but we don't have to worry about most communicable diseases. Until now. And, it ain't just the Christians. Lots of heathen suburban mommies are on this thought train, too.

[Dantheman]

I learned from Ken Burns Country Music that TB was the top killer in the U.S. as late as the 1940s. Where is it now?

No vaccine for TB, and since bacteria seem to be winning the resistance war the prospect of drug-resistant TB coming back is very real and very scary.

[PNWbrit]

No vaccine for TB

BCG no?

I think I have the scar to prove it.