Better Schools Won’t Fix America

[garyfromterrace]

One of the most brilliant political maneuvers in centuries was to start covering the same news events differently to convince people there is no such thing as factual information...and that their gut feelings are more important than difficult, challenging, uncomfortable processes of discovery.

Telling poor uncomfortable pissed-off people their enemy is other poor pissed-off people so they fight each other. The awful douchebags pull the strings and the fucking idiots march into battle. It’s grim.

Yup. Disinformation is the bane of our current existence.

[iceman]

effort, not education. the effort required to acquire new information and the effort required to interpret it and change your opinions when information renders prior beliefs outdated.

I see that as little bit of chicken-or-the-egg. Need both.

[wooley12]

It's hard to relate when all of our own children are above average.

[glademaster]

It's hard to relate when all of our own children are above average.

North Bend sure as shit isn't Lake Wobegon.

[wooley12]

I'm referring to the dentist's on the board. Unlikely that they would direct their precious to a tech school. My wife taught kids that couldn't learn well in a regular HS so I'm familiar. The parents of the wealthier ones tended to demand a collegiate outcome. Or at least a job in sales. It is what it is and I get it. Good to admit it. IMO/E, if we take care of the edges the middle will take be taken care of. itself. Painting, scouring pots or educating. My neph went to her school and owns 5 businesses at 3 different locations. He's not yet 40.

[schuss]

Volunteer work yes but no direct govt work (though my s.o. is in govt service). A brother works in policy for the federal govt & he just visited earlier this year. So I have an idea of how it's more complex than prior posts might suggest. My brother spends much of his time running policy proposals through political, economic & outcome filters. When that's done there's usually very little leftover. Maybe most concerning is watching someone I know to have good character, intentions, education & power fall into the same, tired pattern of accepting things like political unpopularity as a proposal-killer rather than taking risks (gotta mind the career). Even with failure, there're lessons. But, at least on a Federal level, things are too dysfunctional to allow the healthy dynamic of experimentation and learning to take root. If there is no room for a virtuous cycle like goal setting, executing, evaluating & improving then the solution seems to be disengagement & hedging wherever possible. Support the AOCs of the world but keep expectations anchored to the floor.

Oh yeah, very little expectation, but that doesn't mean we can't try and we can't put clearly corrupt folks in jail.

[wyeaster]

Oh yeah, very little expectation, but that doesn't mean we can't try and we can't put clearly corrupt folks in jail.

[Bunion 2020]

which is why it circles back around to education, and why you keep hearing spending money on it it doesn't work - because it does and that fact threatens the douchebags' ability to keep controlling people, and those people control the media.

Except that education is really indoctrination of the youth to a way of life that is quite frankly, un-American.

[sb]

^^^ this

[wooley12]

Is that how you saw it?

[ill-advised strategy]

the big stuff really is socialization.

You can have really studious environments where people study the minutia of a fundamentalist religion. You can have rigorous academic math environments where people learn to jerk financial markets around and make themselves billionaires.

Education yes....but education in what? Education in how to be both skeptical and open-minded at the same time. Intake all the information and criticize it thoroughly.

[Doremite]

the big stuff really is socialization.

You can have really studious environments where people study the minutia of a fundamentalist religion. You can have rigorous academic math environments where people learn to jerk financial markets around and make themselves billionaires.

Education yes....but education in what? Education in how to be both skeptical and open-minded at the same time. Intake all the information and criticize it thoroughly.

I was always taught America is the greatest and Abe Lincoln was also great because he freed the slaves.

[Ted Striker]

Except that education is really indoctrination of the youth to a way of life that is quite frankly, un-American.

the big stuff really is socialization.

Which is why home-schooled kids are always awkward.

[redacted user]

Which is why home-schooled kids are always awkward.

Assuming it was an option I'd be open to doing that vs. letting a kid mix with genpop. Travel & learn together & whatnot. Social dynamics in schools can be really toxic & quite the distraction.

[FLS]

Assuming it was an option I'd be open to doing that vs. letting a kid mix with genpop. Travel & learn together & whatnot. Social dynamics in schools can be really toxic & quite the distraction.

There is also a tremendous flip side to that. Why not incorporate both.

[wyeaster]

There is also a tremendous flip side to that. Why not incorporate both.

that's basically where we are at. fortunately his mom is a expert in bilingual education.

[Ted Striker]

All are correct. Question is imprecise.

Yet the asker yields all of the power. That little kid in Germany and my friend's futures hung on a moment.

[Ted Striker]

Assuming it was an option I'd be open to doing that vs. letting a kid mix with genpop. Travel & learn together & whatnot. Social dynamics in schools can be really toxic & quite the distraction.

Oh, I agree. But there's home school, and then there's home school.

[iceman]

Yet the asker yields all of the power. That little kid in Germany and my friend's futures hung on a moment.

Well with your friend at least you'd hope the asker was looking for somebody who thought about the question before answering it rather than somebody who just did the math for the first thing that occurred to him.

For the kid in Germany it's hard to say what the point was, maybe just to see if the kid could do the math, I dunno.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> Education in how to be both skeptical and open-minded at the same time. Intake all the information and criticize it thoroughly.

This. And the *greatest* hindrance to this, IMO, is organized religion.

[Ted Striker]

For my friend's job interview, I suspect it was to throw him off guard to see how he reacts to curve balls.

Taking it back to I see black diamond's point, there's an urge to pigeon hole that has to be guarded against. When I was in high school everything was binary. Smart/dumb, good/trouble maker, jock/bookworm... except it wasn't. Just a form of mental laziness.

[Ted Striker]

This. And the *greatest* hindrance to this, IMO, is organized religion.

[redacted user]

This. And the *greatest* hindrance to this, IMO, is organized religion.

[jackstraw]

I'm referring to the dentist's on the board. Unlikely that they would direct their precious to a tech school. My wife taught kids that couldn't learn well in a regular HS so I'm familiar. The parents of the wealthier ones tended to demand a collegiate outcome. Or at least a job in sales. It is what it is and I get it. Good to admit it. IMO/E, if we take care of the edges the middle will take be taken care of. itself. Painting, scouring pots or educating. My neph went to her school and owns 5 businesses at 3 different locations. He's not yet 40.

It depends on the kid. My youngest was encouraged to go that route...if he wanted...because he's been building stuff since he was a little kid. He opted for an engineering degree. My oldest on the other hand did not have it in his dna to work with his hands, so he has a business degree. They're actually a perfect match to start a company some day.

[dunfree]

tech schools are fading away because they've become a generally poor investment of student time & money, not because of class issues.

I see that as little bit of chicken-or-the-egg. Need both.

To each there own. I see it more as an effort issue, i.e. there are lots of smart educated people who are anti-vaxxers - they can't make the effort to overcome their views. Plenty of other entrenched views political or non-political.