Your TAXES

[old goat]

I gotta laugh when people wear their low income like a badge of honor and think others are wealthy because they have a tax burden higher than those folk’s annual income. It is like they don't realize that we are just the income bracket that is stuck in the middle and getting fucked from every angle despite working our asses off to try to get ahead rather than just languishing away and sucking the system dry. We make too much to get many tax incentives, but have to make as much as we do just to live where we grew up.
Stop pitting the middle class against each other. It is the people a few rungs up we should all be fighting but they make the rules.

Certainly time to tax capital gains as ordinary income and bring back brackets more like what we had in the 50's.

[Master of Energy]

Certainly time to tax capital gains as ordinary income and bring back brackets more like what we had in the 50's.

the taxing of Long Term gains as ordinary income only works if you index the basis of the capital to some sort of inflation metric. You shouldn't pay ordinary income tax rates on the portion of long term gains attributable to inflation/devaluing of the dollar.

[TahoeJ]

I say just extend the minimum time line on cap gains. Call it splitting the difference.


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[Hopeless Sinner]

the taxing of Long Term gains as ordinary income only works if you index the basis of the capital to some sort of inflation metric. You shouldn't pay ordinary income tax rates on the portion of long term gains attributable to inflation/devaluing of the dollar.

"only works" lol. which I take to mean maintains it's special and unfair treatment in the tax code

Why should owners of capital's earnings be exempt from tax on inflation? As wages(ordinary income) rise due to inflation their is no relief from inflation, and in fact there is a penalty because the income tax is progressive.

[Name Redacted]

I don’t have a low income but thanks for the concern. I’m assuming you were addressing me. If you’re paying more taxes than the average income in the US($40k) you’re pretty well off no matter where you live. There’s a whole lot of people making that $40k+ that aren’t sucking the system dry. Be happy with what you have and stop complaining.

If you’re making more than $150k you’re in the top 20% of households for income, I’d consider that wealthy even if you don’t.

Whatever your number is, that's fine, but don't assume everyone is living under the same circumstances. $150k doesn't go far where I live. My large tax bill was from selling an investment, yes it made money, but I used it in another investment in a small business. That's how it works. I'm just a guy trying to get ahead enough to retire someday. Large tax bills are a big deterrent to that.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

So you’re making more than that? Just getting by and struggling to survive?


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[XXX-er]

So as I understand down there you can deduct interest on mortgage payments but then pay capitol gains on proceeds of selling your house, the whole amount or just a portion ?

Neither one happens up here on a principal residence

lotta people up here are struggling with short term mortgages coming due/ no where to live super high house prices

[Master of Energy]

"only works" lol. which I take to mean maintains it's special and unfair treatment in the tax code

Why should owners of capital's earnings be exempt from tax on inflation? As wages(ordinary income) rise due to inflation their is no relief from inflation, and in fact there is a penalty because the income tax is progressive.

Well its not really a long term gain if your asset just held its value against inflation is it? Short term gains (held less than 1 year) should be (and are) taxed the same as wage and interest income. And I would argue for ss & medicare tax to apply also. Thats apples to apples.

But long term gains should not be taxed like ordinary income. Maybe change the definition of a LT gain to greater than 5 years instead of greater than 1 year.

[Name Redacted]

So you’re making more than that? Just getting by and struggling to survive?

Is not "Struggling" something you aspire to? Or is "Struggling" something you wear like a badge of courage?

[Master of Energy]

So as I understand down there you can deduct interest on mortgage payments but then pay capitol gains on proceeds of selling your house, the whole amount or just a portion ?

Neither one happens up here on a principal residence

lotta people up here are struggling with short term mortgages coming due/ no where to live super high house prices

Just a portion of a residence gain could be subject to tax in US. section 121 exclusion. 250k gain excluded per person.

And as far as interest deductions - unless you have alot of charity or health expenses to itemize most people no longer deduct mortgage interest. You still can, its just more rare than pre salt tax cap.

[Hopeless Sinner]

Well its not really a long term gain if your asset just held its value against inflation is it? Short term gains (held less than 1 year) should be (and are) taxed the same as wage and interest income. And I would argue for ss & medicare tax to apply also. Thats apples to apples.

But long term gains should not be taxed like ordinary income. Maybe change the definition of a LT gain to greater than 5 years instead of greater than 1 year.

Whatever your reasoning is it's still special and favorable treatment for the owners of capital vs ordinary income. And if the long term gain turns into a long term loss, it's still protected by being a deductible loss. Owners of capital get protection whether the investment gains or loses.

In my estimation owners of capital have a pretty favorable treatment by the tax code and the results are what we see in the .1% getting richer by the minute and wage earners competing over the dwindling scraps left behind.

[Foggy_Goggles]

In my estimation owners of capital have a pretty favorable treatment by the tax code and the results are what we see in the .1% getting richer by the minute and wage earners competing over the dwindling scraps left behind.

See this mindset is why the ruling class laughs at us. Small business owners who write living wage paychecks are not the enemy. Capital has to get paid. Is the capital not distributed widely enough? Probably. Are payroll taxes and other semi-hidden fees/taxes regressive? Yeah. Is administrative overhead favoring larger and larger business? Sure.

If you want to go on a public policy rant, there are a lot of easier piñatas to swing at other than income tax paid by however you want to define the middle income brackets.

[Bunion 2020]

And it is not just income taxes.

Property taxes here just took a big jump, for some, 50%.

But the wealthy and corporations got a reduction.

And then there is this:

BOZEMAN- When Bozeman resident Deborah Newville opened her latest tax statement, she was shocked. At first.

“It threw me such a curveball,” she said.

After the shock wore off, worry set in.

“I don’t know, it’s a question mark," she said, adding, “We are now at $12,000 for the year, so approximately a thousand a month in property taxes."

Across the state, many Montana property owners are in the same boat, trying to find out why their property taxes increased so much, and how they're going to pay them.

Not everyone is in the same boat. An MTN analysis of property-tax records showed that one residence owned by Gov. Greg Gianforte in Helena actually saw a decrease in property taxes this year, unlike properties owned by others in the same neighborhood. Another of the governor's properties in Bozeman saw a smaller increase than neighboring properties, largely because of its agriculture designation while his neighbors saw tax hikes.

Deborah couldn’t believe the increase on her Bozeman property, so she started asking questions.

“Our immediate neighbor next door, which happens to be the governor, theirs seemed to go up just a bit, maybe a couple thousand. Whereas ours went up $5,000.”

What is the ag tax exemption?

Gianforte purchased his 11-acre property on Manley Road in the 1990s.

A spokesperson for his office, said the governor and his wife, Susan Gianforte, own land in ag production there, saying the land rotates between irrigated barley and alfalfa. It’s also used to board horses and mules.

The governor’s property taxes increased by 19% because of the Montana agriculture exemption.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Is not "Struggling" something you aspire to? Or is "Struggling" something you wear like a badge of courage?

I’m not sure, I’ve never struggled with anything really, I’ve been really fortunate that way. I’ve prioritized my life around experiences not wealth accumulation.

Look, I get it, you don’t consider yourself wealthy even though it sounds like you make more money than 80% of the people in the country. You’re not going to get any sympathy from the middle class, you’ll only get pity if you whine about struggling and your taxes.
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[old goat]

As it is LTCG tax stays the same whether inflation is 1%, 10%, or negative. If you want to keep it, index it. And while we're at it, let people with fixed income deduct the rate of inflation from their pension income.

Anyway, I don't care how we fix the tax system as long as we fix it to help the people who need help the most, not the least.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Tax breaks for everyone!

You guys should bitch about payroll tax today. When you are done with that, maybe expand on how we shift the burden of inflation to the government without that itself being inflationary.

[AdironRider]

I'd be happy with removing the income cap on social security, but not increasing the max payout (outside of COLA's). Everybody wants to tax the rich until its time to put rubber to the road.

I came in owing a grand. I'll take that over a refund honestly.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I’d be happy if people that make under $50k weren’t taxed(a lot don’t end up paying much if any income tax) and everyone else paid a flat rate with no exemptions.

You could set the no tax limit somewhere a bit lower or higher after some discussion. It should be based solely on individual earnings. There shouldn’t be breaks for dependents, head of household or being married.

It wouldn’t matter to me, I’m single and make more. I’d really like to see the highest earners actually pay their share.


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[Mazderati]

"I pay what I owe.

Tomorrow I will wire transfer to the IRS

$288,000,000.00

This country has done so much for me, I’m proud to pay my taxes every single year.

Tag a former president that you know doesn’t"


https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/1779573824318521840

[Foggy_Goggles]

How much do you think the average $50K W2 earner pays in taxes and fees other than federal income tax?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

How much do you think the average $50K W2 earner pays in taxes and fees other than federal income tax?

How much? Let us know, or is this a quiz?

Everyone should pay SS and Medicare taxes.




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[Foggy_Goggles]

I don't know but I think its a lot. Gas, sales, property, vehicle reg., licenses, entrance fees and so on.

FICA is about 25% of Federal Government Revenue and it is only paid on W2 income. So think about that when you a focused on Income Tax which is about 40% of Revenue.

Its a lot more complex than "rich people should pay more tax and do it with a smile". Perhaps we get what we deserve but we've basically accepted an unacceptable decree of incompetence from the federal government. This is where we should look in order to make progress. Accepts its all, "old vs. orange" "left vs. right" "right vs. poor".

[jackstraw]

we've basically accepted an unacceptable decree of incompetence from the federal government.

But it's your government. Get involved and make change? ...yeah, I know the answer.

[riser4]

My wife is self employed so she pays both employer and employee share. I split the quarterly estimated payments up and pay monthly with a reminder in my phone. It's the least hassle and doesn't sting as bad as making four larger payments. We still usually owe a couple grand at the end of the year if she has a good year.

[Name Redacted]

I’m not sure, I’ve never struggled with anything really, I’ve been really fortunate that way. I’ve prioritized my life around experiences not wealth accumulation.

Look, I get it, you don’t consider yourself wealthy even though it sounds like you make more money than 80% of the people in the country. You’re not going to get any sympathy from the middle class, you’ll only get pity if you whine about struggling and your taxes.
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Dude um yeah, I own a very blue collar business, and I am the one getting his hands dirty every fucking day to make the money. So if I'm wealthy because of it, so be it. I'll not apologize for that shit. Up until the last few years I was making far less money and working a lot more than most people. Guarantee my effective tax rate is higher than most people too.