The FIFTY

**Skidog** · 06-10-2021, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by altasnob

In Price, the court analyzed whether the law survived strict scrutiny. To survive strict scrutiny, “the Government [must] prove that the restriction furthers a compelling interest and is narrowly tailored to achieve that interest.” If the government proves this, it is ok that the law violates your First Amendment rights.

Price involved filming at Colonial National Historic Park. The government argued the primary compelling interest the law furthered was to make money for the NPS (weak sauce). The court shot that down.

Now turn to wilderness. The compelling interest is to keep it fucking wilderness. Prevent for profit live blog streaming of the PCT. Prevent further exploitation of our wild lands for profit. Keep wilderness as “an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.” It's one thing to throw videos up online that increase use in wilderness just because you like sharing stoke. It's another when you are doing it for your job. And you best believe every environmental group in the nation will be filing a friend of the court brief trying to keep unpermitted commercial filming out of the wilderness.

I am not saying the Price First Amendment argument won't work. I am saying neither I, nor the attorney who argued for Price, can predict the outcome with 100% certainty. Who knows. We'll all find out soon enough because like I said, some intstagram schmuck will surely push this issue to the limit and find themselves in court.

Must admit, well put

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

**Alkasquawlik** · 06-10-2021, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

IIRC, he has been applying for and receiving permits. The Rainier NPS office denied his permit application for reasons that I don't believe have been disclosed.

Can you all go start a separate thread and stop thrunting this one? JFC what a goatfuck this otherwise awesome thread has turned into.

It was actually denied simply as a matter of timing. Because of the short staff during the pandemic, I didn't give enough notice for it to go through all the proper channels for approval. I mean, hell, when I called, they recognized the number, knew it was me and kindly said to apply again...a year after I had gotten a permit. But unfortunately, just wasn't enough time between application and ski days to approve.

But yeah, this thread got a little out of hand, even though I am enjoying the back and forth in certain ways. It reminds me of the good ole days here, people being asses, others casually defending, certain people not reading but commenting and some good old fashioned preaching. The shit show entertainment of the old forums has felt lost for ages, so its sort of good to see it back.

**Dantheman** · 06-11-2021, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik

But yeah, this thread got a little out of hand, even though I am enjoying the back and forth in certain ways. It reminds me of the good ole days here, people being asses, others casually defending, certain people not reading but commenting and some good old fashioned preaching. The shit show entertainment of the old forums has felt lost for ages, so its sort of good to see it back.

Well, since it's your thread, carry on!

**jackstraw** · 06-11-2021, 10:12 AM

Mods are gonna move this thread to bullfighting?

Are we going to have an Attorney forum next?

**bodywhomper** · 06-11-2021, 10:48 AM

Maybe a broader “permitting” forum. It’ll be a good place for people the share their”safe word.”

**Danno** · 06-11-2021, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by total_immortal

I'm starting to suspect MTM and altasnob are the permitting rangers at Rainier....

Nah, MTM is just someone getting paid $350 and hour to be an internet douchnozzle, right?

Good work if you can get it.

Originally Posted by teleee

I love all the lawyers jumping on here to spray legalese while some poor sap is paying them $350 an hour to do so.

**::: :::** · 06-11-2021, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by bodywhomper

Maybe a broader “permitting” forum. It’ll be a good place for people the share their”safe word.”

my safe word is "keep going"

**chaka** · 06-11-2021, 03:43 PM

ffs... what happened on St Elias!?!?

**Supermoon** · 06-11-2021, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by chaka

ffs... what happened on St Elias!?!?

Jesus dude keep the ski talk off the lawyers’ forum. JONG!!

**adrenalated** · 06-11-2021, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by chaka

ffs... what happened on St Elias!?!?

They sat in a tent and debated the finer points of the Wilderness Act of 1964 as it pertains to commerical/noncommercial filming in national parks.

**MakersTeleMark** · 06-11-2021, 10:33 PM

There was a famous circle jerk with a gooey picture of John Muir is what I heard. Just gossip though.

**TahoeJ** · 06-12-2021, 12:30 AM

One possible solution to all of this is to allow those making the permit decision (at their discretion) to also allow for scalable commercial permits based on the scope of the proposed project. Far from a perfect solution but it would eliminate slippery slope arguments / concerns.

**Alkasquawlik** · 06-12-2021, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

One possible solution to all of this is to allow those making the permit decision (at their discretion) to also allow for scalable commercial permits based on the scope of the proposed project. Far from a perfect solution but it would eliminate slippery slope arguments / concerns.

Which is essentially what it s gone to for Wilderness Areas on NPS jurisdiction. I was able to secure permits for both Glacier (Mt Stimson) and Wrangell-St Elias (St. Elias) on grounds of what seems like is stated above. Each park service is like it’s own little fiefdom and from what I can tell, they’re still judging permitting based on character of content (ie good wilderness values, ethics and practices being displayed) but they’re primarily basing their judgements off of the potential “impact” to land, visitation and wildlife as outline in some of the original language of NPS law and policy.

Oh and MTM, don’t you know Muir has been cancelled. We don’t talk about him anymore.

**abraham** · 06-12-2021, 02:02 PM

You should start the Rainier episode with a little Apocalypse Now.

The permits... The permits...

**NWFlow** · 06-12-2021, 02:08 PM

What did Muir do? I must have missed his cancellation?

**BC.** · 06-12-2021, 02:17 PM

^^^People studying these topics say that Muir’s treatment of indigenous people (racist words) have gotten him onto the “cancellation” list….

He was ambivalent to indigenous people who were living on what is now National Park land…..

*Not my quotes..….just relaying what I’ve read or have been told about Muir….

**NWFlow** · 06-12-2021, 04:47 PM

Thanks, i figured it was something along those lines. Guess i should look into it more.

**powdork** · 06-12-2021, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by NWFlow

What did Muir do? I must have missed his cancellation?

To be fair, people have known this about Muir for a while because he wrote about it. It made news last year because the Sierra Club came out to deal with the fact that he treated and wrote about both african americans and native americans as classes lower than the wildlife he studied.

and i think it's probably more correct at least for people my age that we didn't miss his cancellation. we missed learning about that aspect of his life in the first place because it was basically hidden from us

**waveshello** · 06-13-2021, 11:02 PM

It's more nuanced than "Muir was a racist."

It's always more nuanced, but it feels so damn good to drag someone's legacy to the altar of self-righteousness and sacrifice it in holy fire to the dieties of wokeness. It's the only way to absolve yourself of your own guilt.

I think Muir wrote many many of his honest thoughts and some of those were racist, and I believe he knew it. Does a racist thought make one a racist... forever? At one point he expressed regret and remorse at the feeling of disdain he felt during an encounter with some "indians" on a trail, longing for a time when all men would exist as brothers. I do not believe the man had a hatred for any ethnic group.

As he grew older and wiser there is an apparent change in his ways of thinking. I believe he admired Native Americans and their ways of living and that is apparent in his writing.

Muir has enough material out there to cherry pick from that you could spin him any way you like. I think Muir's character and actions speak for themselves.

I sensed a note of sarcasm in the statement that Muir was cancelled, and I think that's appropriate.

Sent from my BND-L24 using Tapatalk

**Shorty_J** · 06-13-2021, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by waveshello

It's more nuanced than "Muir was a racist."

It's always more nuanced, but it feels so damn good to drag someone's legacy to the altar of self-righteousness and sacrifice it in holy fire to the dieties of wokeness. It's the only way to absolve yourself of your own guilt.

I think Muir wrote many many of his honest thoughts and some of those were racist, and I believe he knew it. Does a racist thought make one a racist... forever? At one point he expressed regret and remorse at the feeling of disdain he felt during an encounter with some "indians" on a trail, longing for a time when all men would exist as brothers. I do not believe the man had a hatred for any ethnic group.

As he grew older and wiser there is an apparent change in his ways of thinking. I believe he admired Native Americans and their ways of living and that is apparent in his writing.

Muir has enough material out there to cherry pick from that you could spin him any way you like. I think Muir's character and actions speak for themselves.

I sensed a note of sarcasm in the statement that Muir was cancelled, and I think that's appropriate.

Sent from my BND-L24 using Tapatalk

Well thought and written. Thanks.

Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk

**BC.** · 06-14-2021, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by waveshello

It's more nuanced than "Muir was a racist."

It's always more nuanced, but it feels so damn good to drag someone's legacy to the altar of self-righteousness and sacrifice it in holy fire to the dieties of wokeness. It's the only way to absolve yourself of your own guilt.

I think Muir wrote many many of his honest thoughts and some of those were racist, and I believe he knew it. Does a racist thought make one a racist... forever? At one point he expressed regret and remorse at the feeling of disdain he felt during an encounter with some "indians" on a trail, longing for a time when all men would exist as brothers. I do not believe the man had a hatred for any ethnic group.

As he grew older and wiser there is an apparent change in his ways of thinking. I believe he admired Native Americans and their ways of living and that is apparent in his writing.

Muir has enough material out there to cherry pick from that you could spin him any way you like. I think Muir's character and actions speak for themselves.

I sensed a note of sarcasm in the statement that Muir was cancelled, and I think that's appropriate.

Sent from my BND-L24 using Tapatalk

^^^Yes, nicely explained….thank you.

**meter-man** · 06-17-2021, 03:20 PM

Reno attorney / former boxer Joey Gilbert, aka Alka's nemesis / the guy you always see at the Reno airport, is running for Governor of Nevada. https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2021/...or/7709789002/

His claims to fame: that ridiculous pic in the Reno airport, boxing enough times to give himself brain damage, being present at the Capitol uh "peaceful assembly" on January 6, 2021, and that's about it.

Not Fifty-related exactly, but damn is that funny!

**rod9301** · 06-17-2021, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Kirby

You don't have to be 'woke' to see the inherent contradictions in the relationship between the treatment of First Nations and the establishment of a national park system.

Not sure what you mean.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk