Moment Skis Discussion

[RadSkier_]

I had the WC108 for one season and like toast226, I wanted it to be amazing but I found it to be nothing special. I sold it and bought a WC118 and it lived up to the hype for sure. I have skied the DW and it feels very similar. Obviously a better carver, but not as good in pow/deep chop.

I think the way to look at the decision is: do I want one ski to do it all pretty well (DW), or do I want one ski that is best in class for soft snow conditions (WC)

[RadSkier_]

Anyone here have a chance to ski the OG Bibby/Blister Pro and can comment on how it compares to last year’s version of the Wildcat 118?

Moment changed cores on the 2020-21 WC last year and I think made it stiffer/damper and less poppy while also adding a bit of weight compared to the 2019-20 version of the ski.

I’ll never get a chance to ski an OG bibby, but I do wonder how the latest version version compares to the original. Would love to hear what others have to say and which version they preferred.

[lemonhead]

Last year more weight was added back in and this year even more. This is according to the last two years on melee being on the blister podcast. Now they are really similar. The first year they went to the semi cap was the biggest delta. We're talking a small percentage difference. The skis are built better now and are more durable.

[thurmondmb]

Interesting.. really good info guys. It sounds like something like a WC108 (Maybe in 184?) should be on my radar for this use as well but after years on Bibbys it just seems a bit samey. I'm sure regardless of my decision I'll end up with both anyways..

My 2 Cents on the WC108 190. I'm 6ft, 200.

* The blister review for the 108 is pretty spot on IMO
* With the big radius (at least for me) wants to go down the fall line when carving
* Super easy to pivot sideways
* Grips pretty well in hard conditions
* I like how poppy and easy it is to get height on your jumps
* It can go pretty dang fast in open conditions, but again easy to pivot when I ski it with neutral stance
* it was described to me as a "Point and shoot ski", which I agree with
* skis switch well (if you're into that sort of thing)
* the only time I felt under-gunned was at Silverton, during unguided season, in about 2ft chop on the backside. I just wish I tad a tad more float in that scenario. Though skiing the shoots down to the open pow field I was glad I had the 108.
* I think it handles soft chop well. But it is not a damp ski like the devastator. It has way more pop
* I had problems in steep moguls but I think this is more of a pilot issue
* I have yet to ski it in tight steep trees with chop/moguls
* I have never skied the deathwish

[cydwhit]

Interesting.. really good info guys. It sounds like something like a WC108 (Maybe in 184?) should be on my radar for this use as well but after years on Bibbys it just seems a bit samey. I'm sure regardless of my decision I'll end up with both anyways..

Toast nailed it, but I'll add another data point. 6'1" 190 lbs and I've skied the 184 DW, DWT, WC, WCT and WCT 108 quite a bit. The WCT Tour 108 is a great touring ski, but the only reasons I can see to buy it over a Deathwish Tour are either A) you're overly obsessed with 4mm and think that 112 is too wide, but 108 is right on (I couldn't notice the width difference blind and I doubt most others would either) or B) you're scared of triple camber. If that's the case, I get it, but I think you'll get along with the ski just fine after a run or two. It makes the ski more versatile without giving up much if anything IME.

The DWT vs WCT debate is trickier. In my experience the WCT has a higher overall speed limit than the DWT in just about any conditions. It's happier going fast and taking chances. The DWT has noticeably better edge grip and maneuverability in tight terrain and variable snow, and a little less float. I ended up settling on the DWT for everything, but I could imagine having both a WCT 108 and 116 if I liked swapping skis around more.

What made things actually complicated for me was grabbing an old pair of Ghost Trains. I was pretty happy skiing the DWT for everything from scrapped out couloirs to deep pillows, but the Ghost Trains blew the doors off what I thought a dedicated pow ski could be. They're so much more fun in truly deep untracked snow than the Wildcat regular or tour, or DWT that I ended up hauling my very heavy pair up a whole lot more laps than I should have. So now I'm petitioning for a Ghost Train Tour to happen.

TL;DR: I don't see much of a reason to grab WCT 108's or 116's over DWT's, unless you want to have two pairs of 100+ mm touring skis, in which case having both Wildcats would be pretty fun.

[doebedoe]

... I'll add another data point. 6'1" 190 lbs and I've skied the 184 DW, DWT, WC, WCT and WCT 108 quite a bit. ....

Interesting to see I"m not the only person of this size on the 184s. Occasionally in very deep snow or challenging snow I wish I had the 190s, but it isn't to do with stability -- just having more ski to moderate my poor balance. But when I want a 108 ski for mank I have my Corvus 188s and when I want super deep, Protests.

I am so damn psyched to get out on my DW104 184s shortly. Haven't braved taking them out on the WRODs yet.

[cydwhit]

Interesting to see I"m not the only person of this size on the 184s. Occasionally in very deep snow or challenging snow I wish I had the 190s, but it isn't to do with stability -- just having more ski to moderate my poor balance.

I am so damn psyched to get out on my DW104 184s shortly. Haven't braved taking them out on the WRODs yet.

Bigger folks on 184's unite! I like shorter skis, and most of the time I'm not nuking. My terrain/style doesn't lend itself to that, and I ski pretty centered so it's rare to feel like I'm outrunning the 184s. That said, the 186 Ghost Train fit me so well that it made everything else feel just a tad short. Those DW104's seem sick, hope I get to snag a few runs on a pair at some point!

[doebedoe]

Those DW104's seem sick, hope I get to snag a few runs on a pair at some point!

They're around Loveland should you ever be passing through. Have Warden demo binders and happy to throw you a comp for all the content of yours I've enjoyed over the last couple years. Probably in the roof box on my way through Jackson/Driggs in late Jan too.

[GoSlowGoFar]

Anyone been on both the Meridian/Meridian Tour 107 187 and the DW/DWT 184? Juggling between the two for my daily driver touring ski. I have a Protest for the deep days, MTN for long spring days, but would ideally like to travel with two skis (1 resort, 1 touring). Any thoughts?

I used to have the Meridian in the 181 and enjoyed it but it I felt the float was lacking on heavier pow days. I have the DW which I enjoy but haven’t really gotten it in much soft snow since I’m typically touring on pow days. Think the 187 Meridian would have comparable pow performance with the full rocker?

[doebedoe]

My 10 lap review of the DW 104. I'm 6'2", 185# and on the 184. 3 roughed-up groomer laps, 7 of chalky, soft proto-bumps.

Yep. It's exactly what I wanted for my daily ski. It is obviously the skinny version of it's older brother. Took only a couple turns to confirm that. Easy to pivot from a center stance, lean into the tip and it produces a nice rebound (showed how dead my 13/14 DWs really are). A touch stiffer and more composed on 2D snow. Noticeably quicker from edge to edge despite the less than 1cm difference. It's a pretty dialed ski right out of the gate. (For me that is.)

Nicely done and thanks for making the ski.

[PeachesNCream]

Bigger folks on 184's unite! I like shorter skis, and most of the time I'm not nuking. My terrain/style doesn't lend itself to that, and I ski pretty centered so it's rare to feel like I'm outrunning the 184s. That said, the 186 Ghost Train fit me so well that it made everything else feel just a tad short. Those DW104's seem sick, hope I get to snag a few runs on a pair at some point!

Do you like shorter skis just for touring or resort too?

[ender9099]

In case anyone was wondering if the deep blue STH16 looks dope as shit on a DW104. It does.

Gon a Put er on the snow friday.

[PeachesNCream]

Any updates to the regular deathwish this year?

[cydwhit]

Do you like shorter skis just for touring or resort too?

Depends. I mostly ski the 184 Deathwish inbounds. But where I live/the terrain I usually ski combined with my skiing style lends itself to sizing down. At the Ghee, I'm always fine on the 184. If I skied the Village more, I'd probably want to be on a 190.

I like to bop around and jump off stuff, I'm rarely nuking. I've spent plenty of time on 190+ skis, and always end up back on something in the 184-186 range as my DD. I'm sure I'd love the 190 Deathwish, but it's very rare that I'm on the 184 and wish it was longer.

[doebedoe]

I could see owning a 190 DW for my replacement of my current 184 DW. With the 184 DW104 in the quiver as a daily. The fore-aft support and nukability of the 190 makes more sense for me in the 112 platform.

But for now I have the 188 Corvus for that role.

[PeachesNCream]

Depends. I mostly ski the 184 Deathwish inbounds. But where I live/the terrain I usually ski combined with my skiing style lends itself to sizing down. At the Ghee, I'm always fine on the 184. If I skied the Village more, I'd probably want to be on a 190.

I like to bop around and jump off stuff, I'm rarely nuking. I've spent plenty of time on 190+ skis, and always end up back on something in the 184-186 range as my DD. I'm sure I'd love the 190 Deathwish, but it's very rare that I'm on the 184 and wish it was longer.

Interesting. I'm slightly larger @ 6'3 200lbs and have a similar skiing style (less chargey, more playful), esp for backcountry. I was torn between the 184/190 but found a deal on the 190 DWT and went with it, we'll see how it goes. Really curious to A/B the DW and Jeff108

[Sargentdrufus]

In case anyone was wondering if the deep blue STH16 looks dope as shit on a DW104. It does.

Gon a Put er on the snow friday.

Dang those look amazing.

[Mike Rogers]

his popped on my facebook feed today. Classic Deathwish topsheet. I renewed my Deathwish this September, so it's not for me, but it looks great!

As for the sizing discussion. I'm 179cm tall, average build and I really like the 184 for both the resort and touring layups.

The Deathwish is my favorite ski, but it's strength is not long radius turns in chop and crud. I have considered sizing up to the 190 for better stability, but I don't want to lose the fun factor. These skis are great in trees and tight spots, and really fun in the open as long as you stay pretty active. I don't know if I would recommend sizing down, but I wouldn't recommend sizing up either.


T

https://www.momentskis.com/products/...LARj7g8DJXe8MI

[roverdoc]

Couldn’t resist. Trigger pulled

[Lunchwagon]

Interesting. I'm slightly larger @ 6'3 200lbs and have a similar skiing style (less chargey, more playful), esp for backcountry. I was torn between the 184/190 but found a deal on the 190 DWT and went with it, we'll see how it goes. Really curious to A/B the DW and Jeff108

6’2” 205lbs here, I’ll be trying out the 184 WC108 as my touring ski this year (got a late season deal on a demo set). It’ll be interesting since I haven’t been on a sub 190 ski in 10+ years.

I skied on the 190 DW as my daily driver last year, mounted with Shifts at -1. Love the ski, but not thrilled with the touring performance, specifically the long tails making kick turns more difficult (this is partially the fault of the Shift bindings since the boot moves fwd a bit when in uphill mode). I also want to try the DW mounted at the rec’d line, so I think I’m gonna throw some Attack2 demo bindings on there to experiment a bit.

Any issues with the Attack2 demo other than higher stack height? I already own a used set (came with the WC108s) but haven’t skied on them yet as I picked them up end of last season.

[Sylvan]

Just finished my first day on the 188 CMD 108 (on the line); this ski fucking rips. Had it in everything from ice to corduroy, roughed up groomers, steeps, set up chop, and boot deep day old leftovers (alpine not open yet). I'm 6'2/210, aggressive skier, and coming from a 191 M102 in this slot. For me and my weight, the CMD 108 is a much more balanced ski. It holds an edge just as well as the M102 (the M102s strong suit IMO); I could literally stand on the edge doing mach GS turns on roughed up groomers and not worry about a thing, did not find the top end. The swing weight of the CMD is much lighter despite similar weight, however, so it is way more manageable and fun in steeps, and tight spaces; the camber makes it super poppy edge to edge at my weight, they are super easy to shut down/slarve, and easier than the M102 to bend into smaller radius turns when desired.
I really liked the M102 on groomers last year, but found it had too much top end at my weight (more of a 250# human ski maybe based on input on here), which made it pretty dead everywhere else; manageable, just not that fun. Perhaps I would have been better off on the 184 M102, but have never skied anything that short so was hesitant.
This thing is a fucking blast. Didn't get it in any pow, and on those days I'm more likely to bring out the DX or R11, but based on today, I have a feeling it'll float well enough for a firm snow ski due to the tip rocker and splay. I'll post up more thoughts once I get more time on em, but for me, these are super intuitive, very composed at high speeds, super quick edge to edge, and are gonna make me a better, more confident skier. Should be great for low tide days when you're hunting for stashes but may not find any. A 191 M102 should be up in gear swap soon.

[Mike Rogers]

Just finished my first day on the 188 CMD 108 (on the line);.....and coming from a 191 M102 in this slot.

Thanks for the comparison. I ski on the 184 M102 for harder snow days. I plan on skiing them for another year, but might be replacing them with a Commander next year. I'm leaning towards the 98, but I would love to try the 108.

I picked up a pair of the Commander Tours (182cm) this year. I've had them out for a day on a WROD, and they were more fun than the M102s, even with touring boots and pin bindings. It's not that surprising, the M102 is not really meant for crowded green runs, but the Commander Tour exceeded expectations. I am assuming the playful nature of the ski would carry over to the full weight versions.

I've had them out for 3 tours as well. They were in their element (6-8 inches of fresh over crust and junk) for two of the tours, but not the best for 3 feet of low angle powder (no kidding, right?). I'm really happy with them though. I think they'll make a great daily driver for the Rockies and for sidecountry laps, where I want a strong ski to navigate resort sections. The DWT is a bit more fun for deeper days and tree skiing in British Columbia.

I'm happy with my quiver, and I really like the M102s, but skis don't last forever and the CMD 98s seem like they might be a bit more fun to ski.

[Sargentdrufus]

his popped on my facebook feed today. Classic Deathwish topsheet. I renewed my Deathwish this September, so it's not for me, but it looks great!

As for the sizing discussion. I'm 179cm tall, average build and I really like the 184 for both the resort and touring layups.

The Deathwish is my favorite ski, but it's strength is not long radius turns in chop and crud. I have considered sizing up to the 190 for better stability, but I don't want to lose the fun factor. These skis are great in trees and tight spots, and really fun in the open as long as you stay pretty active. I don't know if I would recommend sizing down, but I wouldn't recommend sizing up either.


T

https://www.momentskis.com/products/...LARj7g8DJXe8MI

Oh man my all-time Favorite DW topsheet. Too bad the wife would lose her mind if I bought them

[ejj]

his popped on my facebook feed today. Classic Deathwish topsheet. I renewed my Deathwish this September, so it's not for me, but it looks great!

As for the sizing discussion. I'm 179cm tall, average build and I really like the 184 for both the resort and touring layups.

The Deathwish is my favorite ski, but it's strength is not long radius turns in chop and crud. I have considered sizing up to the 190 for better stability, but I don't want to lose the fun factor. These skis are great in trees and tight spots, and really fun in the open as long as you stay pretty active. I don't know if I would recommend sizing down, but I wouldn't recommend sizing up either.


T

https://www.momentskis.com/products/...LARj7g8DJXe8MI

You mention that the DW doesn’t do that well with GS turns on harder snow. I’m thinking of ordering a pair of 184 DW as my One Pair of western travel skis. Obviously no ski does everything well, but this gives me a little pause, as snow conditions are tricky these days.

[doebedoe]

You mention that the DW doesn’t do that well with GS turns on harder snow. I’m thinking of ordering a pair of 184 DW as my One Pair of western travel skis. Obviously no ski does everything well, but this gives me a little pause, as snow conditions are tricky these days.

He said it's not good at long turns in chop and crud. That's different than hard snow.

The only way you get particularly great damp crud busting performance is more weight and suspensions. It's inherently going to mean less playfulness and popiness. No ski can do both exceptionally well. Deathwish is a bit more oriented towards playing with terrain and just smashing through it. For 98% of skiers, it's plenty of ski.