Moment Skis Discussion

[Melee]

Theres literally 6 of them for sale, the price doesn’t surprise me one bit. If they had made 100 of them I bet it would be more in line with the regular CBs, maybe a little more depending on if the materials cost more.

Sorry for the DPS pricing on the banana tours folks. It's not our intention to start selling skis at this rate all the time but as some of you caught on we only made a handful. Some new tooling was required which costs a lot when you only make a few. Just thought we would offer this up to the world.

We had to consider that a lot of folks on "pro" would get this ski and a limited production tour build mainly being sold at pro pricing doesn't really keep the lights on.

The bread and butter of our skis (Deathwish, Wildcat, Etc) are all at super competitive prices with the big brands and we intend to keep it that way.

[Melee]

Did you use a drill press or did you freehand everything?

I've mounted bindings before (both tech and pivots) but I'd kinda rather have a shop do it, so I'm thinking I may just have Yostmark mount them since they have a helio jig.

The Voyager is definitely on the easier side to mount at home. That being said its pretty critical to align the toe and heel pins and the jig makes that job painless. We suggest using a jig if possible.

[Sargentdrufus]

Gotta say I continue to be incredibly impressed with my DWT. They are awesome, strong and stable when I want it, quick slarvy and pivoty when I want that.

As for ATK's Freeride spacer, it is a game changer. I've mentioned that I added one to my Ion LTs and after skiing a lot of not great firm snow so far this year, and after a morning railing 3 pre/dawn laps on groomers, the reduction in vibration and therefore fatigue in my legs vs. Floating on pins is very very very noticeable.

Also if you're concerned about some type of learning curve for the Deathwish/DWT, don't be. It is intuitive, and easy to ski.

[iriponsnow]

Sorry for the DPS pricing on the banana tours folks. It's not our intention to start selling skis at this rate all the time but as some of you caught on we only made a handful. Some new tooling was required which costs a lot when you only make a few. Just thought we would offer this up to the world.

.

Had Moment build me a custom DW, pretty much forgot what I paid upon opening the box.

#DoIt

[GoSlowGoFar]

Had Moment build me a custom DW, pretty much forgot what I paid upon opening the box.

#DoIt

What was the build?

[skier666]

My son's Wildcat 101, wife's Wildcat 116 and of course a pair of 190 DW

[GoSlowGoFar]

The Chipotle Banana talk has me wondering if anyone has skied the CB and Protest or Lotus 138? Any comparisons? Would be strictly a pow touring ski so not worried so much about versatility.

[Kevo]

The Voyager is definitely on the easier side to mount at home. That being said its pretty critical to align the toe and heel pins and the jig makes that job painless. We suggest using a jig if possible.

Good to know, thanks! Will have a shop mount them.

[HAB]

The Chipotle Banana talk has me wondering if anyone has skied the CB and Protest or Lotus 138? Any comparisons? Would be strictly a pow touring ski so not worried so much about versatility.

No, but I currently own Protests and L138s, so if the collective wants to crowd fund a pair of Nanners for me, I'd gladly report my findings. For science.

[ender9099]

Sorry for the DPS pricing on the banana tours folks. It's not our intention to start selling skis at this rate all the time but as some of you caught on we only made a handful. Some new tooling was required which costs a lot when you only make a few. Just thought we would offer this up to the world.

We had to consider that a lot of folks on "pro" would get this ski and a limited production tour build mainly being sold at pro pricing doesn't really keep the lights on.

The bread and butter of our skis (Deathwish, Wildcat, Etc) are all at super competitive prices with the big brands and we intend to keep it that way.

Melee - any insight on the flex of the CBT compared to the standard CB? Given the CBs reputation as a stiff pow ski with a thick ass core....obviously the CBT is going to be a good bit lighter, curious what impact this has on CBT flex?

Related is sizing - for a BC ski is the 193 CBT still a beast as has been described by you a few times? Im 205 - 210 and generally go in the 190 range but that feels a bit silly for lower angle BC pow laps. 186 feels short to me (would be shortest ski in the quiver) but perhaps thats just gonna drive line selection. 186 CBT gonna be a happy place place for big boy in the bc or does the flat camber negate this question in decent snow?

And Yes the questions are all just a stalling tactics so hopefully someone else buys all these and i dont have to cancel xmas for the children.

[soul_skier]

The Chipotle Banana talk has me wondering if anyone has skied the CB and Protest or Lotus 138? Any comparisons? Would be strictly a pow touring ski so not worried so much about versatility.

I probably have 50 days each on the protest and lotus 138s and another 15 on 186 chipolte bananas. For my use case i've kept the Lotus and passed everything else on to others as the Lotus is the purest form of that slarvy and creative shape.

I have dynafits on the my 138s and if i'm going to skin up something big, rowdy, and deep (Tram face 2 years ago, superior in LCC, etc) that is the ski i'd pick every time.

The caveat to that statement is that I do regret selling the CBs as I think they are one of the best inbounds storm day/pow skis on the market. If I could buy my skis back for what I paid for them i'd do so in a heartbeat.

All of the skis you're talking about will get the job done but the 138s put the biggest smile on my face for pure deep snow touring.

[eskido]

I’d pretty much agree here, I’ve never been on 138’s but have a lot of days on the Protest and quite a few on the bananas. For pow touring or just big pow days in general, I’d grab the Protest every time. However, the Bananas are just an absolute snot ball of fun to ski and super versatile, I break them out day after and really anytime it’s soft (I have pivots on mine so they’ve never been OB). They’re fucking RAD, just super easy to ski, but are seriously down to get to down, they will absolutely rage and definitely prefer to do so but not a handful when you’re not into it. They certainly get out a lot more than my Protests, hell they’re even fun on groomers, and in soft trees... [emoji79] they shut down, drift, spin, and pick back up so fast you’d almost never know you turned at all! They’re really really fun.

[PeachesNCream]

I’d pretty much agree here, I’ve never been on 138’s but have a lot of days on the Protest and quite a few on the bananas. For pow touring or just big pow days in general, I’d grab the Protest every time. However, the Bananas are just an absolute snot ball of fun to ski and super versatile, I break them out day after and really anytime it’s soft (I have pivots on mine so they’ve never been OB). They’re fucking RAD, just super easy to ski, but are seriously down to get to down, they will absolutely rage and definitely prefer to do so but not a handful when you’re not into it. They certainly get out a lot more than my Protests, hell they’re even fun on groomers, and in soft trees... [emoji79] they shut down, drift, spin, and pick back up so fast you’d almost never know you turned at all! They’re really really fun.

So you said you like your protests more for big pow days but your CBs get out a lot more. Is it fair to say then that the CBs are a little more versatile and the protests are more pow specific? Which would you say is more "surfy"?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[eskido]

So you said you like your protests more for big pow days but your CBs get out a lot more. Is it fair to say then that the CBs are a little more versatile and the protests are more pow specific? Which would you say is more "surfy"?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Exactly, Protests definitely more surfy

[scmartin69]

I probably have 50 days each on the protest and lotus 138s and another 15 on 186 chipolte banana.

Wow, wish I had 115 pow days...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kid-kapow]

Theres literally 6 of them for sale, the price doesn’t surprise me one bit. If they had made 100 of them I bet it would be more in line with the regular CBs, maybe a little more depending on if the materials cost more.

Moreover, even if it seems steep, the costs of making small run products for production lines are often substantial and a bit hard to measure so if you're not trying to have a custom business charging a meaningful premium is probably the only way to make it work.

I am also ok with them charging a market balancing price for small run products (unlike the blades that sold out instantly for example).

Sorry for the DPS pricing on the banana tours folks. It's not our intention to start selling skis at this rate all the time but as some of you caught on we only made a handful. Some new tooling was required which costs a lot when you only make a few. Just thought we would offer this up to the world.

We had to consider that a lot of folks on "pro" would get this ski and a limited production tour build mainly being sold at pro pricing doesn't really keep the lights on.

The bread and butter of our skis (Deathwish, Wildcat, Etc) are all at super competitive prices with the big brands and we intend to keep it that way.

I try to be positive on TGR as a general rule emphasizing what is good rather than what is poor, but honestly, the pricing is on that batch is pure BS and some grown up at Moment should have pulled the plug on it from a marketing / brand recognition point of view imho. The pricing makes Black Crows pricing of for instance the Nocta seem reasonable, which is an achievement in and of itself.

The various arguments of "small batch", "fan boys will buy them" or "tool costs" just does not cut the mustard.

If they are cost prohibitive to run as a (small) batch - even if the exploratory costs of running a new layup (that might morph into the new layup used for the Commander touring ski that more likely than not will be introduced for 2022) or a new lower weight CB offering that might not be a fairly popular JaPow ski - then just run them as a pro deal on the down low, do not try to recoup the cost on 6 - six - pairs of skis. Having an extremely limited number of fan boys pay for the development of something that probably has a much broader application for your range is just poor form (there are some pretty apt economic terms for said behaviour imho).

In this case the pricing should be so off brand that I would think that most recipients of that email do not think "oh I wish I could afford / justify that expenditure / investment", but go straight into "wtf are they thinking" mode.

I dunno. The funny part is that as I research the pricing across different markets is that here where I live in the socialist hell that is Scandinavia - if certain US pundits can be taken at their word - the market is a lot more competitive than over yonder. The level of price control you see in the US market would be 100% untenable over here. Moment at DPS pricing would also be 100% untenable. Hell DPS at DPS pricing does not sell all that well - the comparable layups from other manufacturers sell for significantly (like 50%) less over here, from brands such as Extrem that ever even produced in Scandinavia using prepreg glassfiber/carbon layups. Free market economy ftw eh.

Anyway, the criticism might be a bit off as I am not a potential customer for said good. I did buy a pair of Völkl BMT122s in 186, a somewhat comparable if way more directional take on a ski such as the CB at 1/4 of the price of the CBs (even if Moment marketing swager would indicate that the BMT122s are unrideable due to their softer middle section) The pricing just rubbed me the wrong way as a Moment fan boy.

Anyway.

I did enjoy my Wildcat108s before I passed them on though, and their new owner was beside himself. They are extremely nice skis, even if thay could benefit from a bit more weight and a slightly rounder behind the binding borderline tail flex pattern

[ender9099]

I try to be positive on TGR as a general rule emphasizing what is good rather than what is poor, but honestly, the pricing is on that batch is pure BS and some grown up at Moment should have pulled the plug on it from a marketing / brand recognition point of view imho. The pricing makes Black Crows pricing of for instance the Nocta seem reasonable, which is an achievement in and of itself.

The various arguments of "small batch", "fan boys will buy them" or "tool costs" just does not cut the mustard.

If they are cost prohibitive to run as a (small) batch - even if the exploratory costs of running a new layup (that might morph into the new layup used for the Commander touring ski that more likely than not will be introduced for 2022) or a new lower weight CB offering that might not be a fairly popular JaPow ski - then just run them as a pro deal on the down low, do not try to recoup the cost on 6 - six - pairs of skis. Having an extremely limited number of fan boys pay for the development of something that probably has a much broader application for your range is just poor form (there are some pretty apt economic terms for said behaviour imho).

In this case the pricing should be so off brand that I would think that most recipients of that emails do not think "oh I wish I could afford / justify that expenditure / investment", but go straight into "wtf are they thinking" mode.

I dunno. The funny part is that as I research the pricing across markets is that here where I live in the socialist hell that is Scandinavia - if certain US pundits can be taken at their word - the market is a lot more competitive than over yonder. The level of price control you see in the US market would be 100% untenable. Moment at DPS pricing would be 100% untenable. Hell DPS at DPS pricing does not sell all that well - the comparable layups from other manufacturers sell for significantly (like 50%) less over here. Free market economy eh.

Anyway, the criticism might be a bit off as I am not a potential customer for said good. I did buy a pair of Völkl BMT122s in 186, a more directional version of the CB at 1/4 of the price of the CBs - even if Moment marketing swager would indicate that the BMTs are unrideable due to their softer middle section

So did you pull the trigger on the CBT? . If you don't like the price, don't buy it. Isn't that the beauty of buying shit none of us really "need" anyway?

[Melee]

I try to be positive on TGR as a general rule emphasizing what is good rather than what is poor, but honestly, the pricing is on that batch is pure BS and some grown up at Moment should have pulled the plug on it from a marketing / brand recognition point of view imho. The pricing makes Black Crows pricing of for instance the Nocta seem reasonable, which is an achievement in and of itself.

The various arguments of "small batch", "fan boys will buy them" or "tool costs" just does not cut the mustard.

If they are cost prohibitive to run as a (small) batch - even if the exploratory costs of running a new layup (that might morph into the new layup used for the Commander touring ski that more likely than not will be introduced for 2022) or a new lower weight CB offering that might not be a fairly popular JaPow ski - then just run them as a pro deal on the down low, do not try to recoup the cost on 6 - six - pairs of skis. Having an extremely limited number of fan boys pay for the development of something that probably has a much broader application for your range is just poor form (there are some pretty apt economic terms for said behaviour imho).

In this case the pricing should be so off brand that I would think that most recipients of that email do not think "oh I wish I could afford / justify that expenditure / investment", but go straight into "wtf are they thinking" mode.

I dunno. The funny part is that as I research the pricing across different markets is that here where I live in the socialist hell that is Scandinavia - if certain US pundits can be taken at their word - the market is a lot more competitive than over yonder. The level of price control you see in the US market would be 100% untenable over here. Moment at DPS pricing would also be 100% untenable. Hell DPS at DPS pricing does not sell all that well - the comparable layups from other manufacturers sell for significantly (like 50%) less over here, from brands such as Extrem that ever even produced in Scandinavia using prepreg glassfiber/carbon layups. Free market economy ftw eh.

Anyway, the criticism might be a bit off as I am not a potential customer for said good. I did buy a pair of Völkl BMT122s in 186, a somewhat comparable if way more directional take on a ski such as the CB at 1/4 of the price of the CBs (even if Moment marketing swager would indicate that the BMT122s are unrideable due to their softer middle section) The pricing just rubbed me the wrong way as a Moment fan boy.

Anyway.

I did enjoy my Wildcat108s before I passed them on though, and their new owner was beside himself. They are extremely nice skis, even if thay could benefit from a bit more weight and a slightly rounder behind the binding borderline tail flex pattern

Hey There,

I am the grown up that set this price. I buy all the material, run the financials and actually have an understanding of how much it costs to make this ski.

First off, the Chipotle Banana Tour is not the Nocta! How many Nocta's does Black Crows have Amer pump out? Thousands I am sure and they still charge a fortune. We made 6. Apples and oranges bud.

It doesn't matter if a ski is cost prohibitive to make... if someone wants us to make it and will pay for it (and we think the ski is rad and worthwhile), we will. That's why we make our own skis.

As I already stated, this ski and price point are not commonplace for us. We made it, so we offered it up to the world. Take it or leave it, this ski wasn't made to be a profit center for us or to cover development costs. We have no intention to put the Chipotle Banana Tour into production...

FYI, we do have a "custom" ski program we just don't advertise it. If someone emailed in and wanted this ski (which they have) and wanted us to make one pair the cost to that customer would be $1500. To sneak a ski like this into production costs a lot. We are not making a killing on customs so all your nonsense about what other companies charge and how they sell in Scandinavia doesn't really matter. The bulk of our skis are competitive in terms of pricing with all major brands in the American market.

We like making cool unique skis and we plan to continue to do it for a long time. To be able to do this we have to charge this rate.

This isn't a ski model that needs to compete with any other brand in the world because no other brand is going to make this ski.

[lemonhead]

It is so fascinating that some or maybe a few are upset about the pricing on 6 pairs of skis...as stated above if you don't like it, don't buy it. I know that Melee and company are extremely in tune with their customer base. I begged and pleaded to re release the Ghost Train. They did, I bought it, put shifts on and couldn't be happier. If I didn't have that setup plus Wildcat tours with voyagers to be mounted up I might be interested in the CBT. Skis are luxury items and I love to support a US based company that I can actually talk to real people when I have a question. That's why I ski moments and there are a half dozens plus hanging in the garage. No one cares about the price on a new special addition supercar or golf club.

[iriponsnow]

Here’s my custom ‘secret sauce’ DW with OG Bibby topsheet.

I know no other ski co, that you can ring & say ‘build me this...’.

FKNA TY.

[soul_skier]

Feel free to send Black Crows a note asking for a tour layup version the Nocta and let us know what they say. The fact these were made and offered at all is pretty damn awesome in and of itself.

[optics]

I wonder which is more annoying to a CEO who has put their blood sweat and tears into building a viable company against the odds...in a capital-intensive industry which is also full of competitors who don’t have the same respect for doing things right, in the right place, with the right people...

-armchair designers (guilty myself at times)

Or

-armchair product managers

?

[NorCalNomad]

I try to be positive on TGR as a general rule emphasizing what is good rather than what is poor, but honestly, the pricing is on that batch is pure BS and some grown up at Moment should have pulled the plug on it from a marketing / brand recognition point of view imho.

Who pissed in your cereal?
It's awesome that Moment did this. They're super up front about the # they made and why it's more. It's not even double digit production numbers but I'm sure they'll sell those fine.

Now if you want to be up in arms about something productive...it should be why they haven't found an as needed printing company (like teespring) to sell posters of their AMAZING topsheet artwork they've had over the years.

I begged and pleaded to re release the Ghost Train. They did, I bought it, put shifts on and couldn't be happier.

@Melee
Speaking of, the GT 20/21 page is giving me a 404

[Sargentdrufus]

Man we got some douche canoes up in here.

The CB and Nocta aren't close to the same ski for starters.

Secondly Black Crows pumps out thousands of Nocta's or rather Amer, pumps them out for them, and they still retail them for $950.

Moment does a crazy limited run on something very special that requires some extra work (that they do in house) and still manages to price them reasonably (considering the custom ski market) and people still gonna be unhappy. Get a life.

Luke classy response as usual.

[KM14]

Perception is key. They released a handful of custom skis at a discounted price (discounted from standard price for custom orders). I don't see the issue there. If anything - those who were looking to order a custom CBT just got lucky.