Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless

[Hopeless Sinner]

Got to 8 sets of blasters yesterday with about 5 more training sessions to make the full 10 before the wheels turn on Thanksgiving. I can't wait to be done with blasters until next fall. Besides plenty of other fitness stuff to work on like Turkish get-ups.

[leroy jenkins]

Doesn't stamina imply short bursts at near max output vs endurance which is the maximum length of time at less than near max output?

Ok so 45 minutes works your endurance if you have horrible endurance.

The thresholds for real endurance are metabolic, 2 hours burns the sugar in your blood. 4 hours is where endurance really starts, do that often enough and your body will get used to burning fat for fuel, thereby increasing your endurance, sure your muscles and cardio get stronger, but I think your metabolism needs to catch up or you'll be handicapped by that.

45 minutes isn't going to do that much for real endurance unless its fasted, or 2 or 3 times a day.

However, obviously, having a higher v02 max isn't going to hurt your endurance, all else being the same.

[Hopeless Sinner]

Ok so 45 minutes works your endurance if you have horrible endurance.

The thresholds for real endurance are metabolic, 2 hours burns the sugar in your blood. 4 hours is where endurance really starts, do that often enough and your body will get used to burning fat for fuel, thereby increasing your endurance, sure your muscles and cardio get stronger, but I think your metabolism needs to catch up or you'll be handicapped by that.

45 minutes isn't going to do that much for real endurance unless its fasted, or 2 or 3 times a day.

However, obviously, having a higher v02 max isn't going to hurt your endurance, all else being the same.

Not arguing w anyone in this thread(LOL), just trying to learn is all. And make sure I understood the difference btwn stamina and endurance.


In your opinion is an 18 hour fast followed by a strenuous workout enough to build endurance? And how many times per week would you suggest?



Update- Got through 10 sets of full blasters at the end of my reg work out. I'll prob keep doing them till the lifts turn on Thanksgiving. 1 goal met, dozens more lie ahead.

[iriponsnow]

Got to 8 sets of blasters yesterday with about 5 more training sessions to make the full 10 before the wheels turn on Thanksgiving. I can't wait to be done with blasters until next fall. Besides plenty of other fitness stuff to work on like Turkish get-ups.

Love TGU's

[Hopeless Sinner]

Love TGU's

Threw those in starting last week. Haven't done them in years, but the funny thing is I think the blasters may have given a little more ROM in my hips so they seem a LOT easier than I remember.

[neufox47]

Ok so 45 minutes works your endurance if you have horrible endurance.

The thresholds for real endurance are metabolic, 2 hours burns the sugar in your blood. 4 hours is where endurance really starts, do that often enough and your body will get used to burning fat for fuel, thereby increasing your endurance, sure your muscles and cardio get stronger, but I think your metabolism needs to catch up or you'll be handicapped by that.

45 minutes isn't going to do that much for real endurance unless its fasted, or 2 or 3 times a day.

However, obviously, having a higher v02 max isn't going to hurt your endurance, all else being the same.

Marathons are no longer an endurance event?

Edit to add, do you have a source that defines endurance as being a metabolic definition? Most of the literature breaks endurance down to either muscular or cardiovascular endurance but neither definition appears to directly consider the metabolic state other than that cardiovascular endurance is aerobic. If the definition of endurance is strictly those events that require your body to burn fat what do you call a mile swim, marathon or half marathon, etc.? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20432193/ Scientific literature, even on this subject of metabolic conditioning, repeatedly refer to efforts of 45 minutes as “endurance”.

Also, if an athlete performs a task for more than 4 hours but does so by fueling primarily with carbohydrate intake does that mean it is not an endurance event? You seem to be making up your own definition of endurance.

[neufox47]

My gym does not have one. I'm pretty confident in my traditional barbell form. But I used one at a gym while traveling and really like it. Debating buying my own since I already carry all my own handles and ropes.

I use hex / trap bar deadlifts as a staple of my program and really like it. I think it is a better lift for athletes because it allows you to put the weight in a more natural position. I would note that I think a hex DL is actually more similar in muscle activation to a back squat than a deadlift though because the deadlift weight position. I recall some studies using muscle activation sensors that supported this, but don’t have a link handy.

For single leg work I use single leg squats (not a pistol) with the working leg elevated (standing on a 6” step) so it makes it easier to clear the non-working leg. This prevents you from having to crank on your hip flexor to lift the non-working leg. For skiers I believe this is one of the best exercises you can do. First it mimics the torsional force on the lower back like skiing does and second it is very good for developing strong and healthy knees.

Rear foot elevated split squats.

Single leg deadlifts.

[EWG]

I agree with trap bar DLs mimicking squats. Which is why I do regular bar DLs. Trying to isolate hamstrings. Back squats are a bit to close to trap DLs to do both - at least for me.

I could see them combining well with front squats. But you’d still need to go after hammies.

All these movements are good. It’s simply a question of how you are putting together the whole movement package to hit everything.

[climberevan]

Also, if an athlete performs a task for more than 4 hours but does so by fueling primarily with carbohydrate intake does that mean it is not an endurance event? You seem to be making up your own definition of endurance.

The whole discussion above about endurance vs stamina also sounds odd to me, and is certainly not based on any consensus among the sports science community. I wonder where these strange definitions of those terms came from. (Crossfit seems like a likely suspect.)

What there is consensus on is that the whole adapting oneself to be more "fat burning" trend can yield at best small results. As we've covered in abundant detail in the Sprockets training thread, carbs are the primary fuel at any intensity beyond a walking pace. I won't relitigate it all here, but suffice to say that the athlete who is actually competitive at an endurance sport and who routinely fasts or does long workouts without fuel is pretty rare. Only in ultra running is it somewhat more common, but that's because getting enough fuel is such a challenge for most people's guts that they accept decreased performance to get through their events. If they could tolerate 80+g of carbs an hour, there is zero doubt that they would be able to perform better.

Here's the link for those who haven't followed the Sprockets thread. There is a ton of great info in it that is transferable to any endurance activity. Very serious science guys have made great contributions there.

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=341124

Official Sprocket Rockets Training Thread

[neufox47]

I agree with trap bar DLs mimicking squats. Which is why I do regular bar DLs. Trying to isolate hamstrings. Back squats are a bit to close to trap DLs to do both - at least for me.

I could see them combining well with front squats. But you’d still need to go after hammies.

All these movements are good. It’s simply a question of how you are putting together the whole movement package to hit everything.

You ever do Nordic curls or slide board leg curls? Recently they have been getting a lot of attention in S&C and are being heavily used to train athletes with repeated hamstring “pulls” or injuries.

https://youtu.be/2ohYYgsZUG0

Single leg deadlifts are another that I really like. I think many single leg exercises work the groin and lower back more than the bilateral version. Lower back and groin are usually the areas most sore after my first tours and lift served skiing, which is especially noticed when I haven’t been working out as much as I should.

https://youtu.be/hCKwxFm7gzc

[XavierD]

It’s pretty easy to change your hip position if you want to hit hamstrings more with a trap bar. Nothing says you can’t do an RDL with one.

[iriponsnow]

All these movements are good. It’s simply a question of how you are putting together the whole movement package to hit everything.

Don’t over think it. Here’s the Ready State / Mobility WOD answer: there are 4 Lower Extremity archetypes-

•Pistol
•Hinge
•Squat
•Lunge

This covers all athletic endeavors. Get all equally into your programming first & then double down on a particular archetype is you have a deficiency / injury / imbalance.

[Hopeless Sinner]

You ever do Nordic curls or slide board leg curls? Recently they have been getting a lot of attention in S&C and are being heavily used to train athletes with repeated hamstring “pulls” or injuries.

https://youtu.be/2ohYYgsZUG0

Single leg deadlifts are another that I really like. I think many single leg exercises work the groin and lower back more than the bilateral version. Lower back and groin are usually the areas most sore after my first tours and lift served skiing, which is especially noticed when I haven’t been working out as much as I should.

https://youtu.be/hCKwxFm7gzc

Great corrections by Mike Boyle on SDL. Thanks.


And thanks for the link to the training thread-read it all.

[EWG]

You ever do Nordic curls or slide board leg curls? Recently they have been getting a lot of attention in S&C and are being heavily used to train athletes with repeated hamstring “pulls” or injuries.

https://youtu.be/2ohYYgsZUG0

Single leg deadlifts are another that I really like. I think many single leg exercises work the groin and lower back more than the bilateral version. Lower back and groin are usually the areas most sore after my first tours and lift served skiing, which is especially noticed when I haven’t been working out as much as I should.

https://youtu.be/hCKwxFm7gzc

I’m on exactly the same page with those. One that I really like is legs curls on a yoga ball.

Single Leg RDLs are good for both kicking your ass and making you stronger.

[XavierD]

Mobility WOD

Generally, I’m a big fan of pointing out that exercise selection really doesn’t matter to a point… except for this one:

•Pistol

Please don’t waste anyones time with this parlor trick

Sorry. Rant off.

Nordic curls are great if you don’t have access to a hamstring curl machine. GHRs are another great way to hit knee flexion hamstring work. Generally a good idea for getting not only strong but keeping your knees healthy

[Hopeless Sinner]

^^^ GHR's = ?

[Bronco]

Gluteous Hamstringus Raises

[Hopeless Sinner]

^^Thank you. I've done those, they 'eff w my blood flow to my brain nearly causing me to pass out so stopped doing them. I do fail the "tilt table test."

Are there any other substitutes?

[EWG]

Generally, I’m a big fan of pointing out that exercise selection really doesn’t matter to a point… except for this one:

Please don’t waste anyones time with this parlor trick

Sorry. Rant off.

Well, I mean they're super applicable if you happen to be a figure skater. Are you a figure skater?

[iriponsnow]

Generally, I’m a big fan of pointing out that exercise selection really doesn’t matter to a point… except for this one:

Please don’t waste anyones time with this parlor trick

Sorry. Rant off.

Why would you eliminate single leg work that mimics the outside ski? Rant on pls

[mr_pretzel]

^^Thank you. I've done those, they 'eff w my blood flow to my brain nearly causing me to pass out so stopped doing them. I do fail the "tilt table test."

Are there any other substitutes?

Hamstring curl machines are great, probably better than GHRs

[californiagrown]

Why would you eliminate single leg work that mimics the outside ski? Rant on pls

I actually see pistols being applicable to skiing, and pistol like movements being great prehab activation exercises to incorporate into a warmup. It will help coordination (proprioception), balance and proper musculature activation that will then be carried forward into the actual workout.

But no fucking way is it a movement to build strength, power, work capacity, etc. It is not something that lends itself to progressive overload at all.


Other single leg work like lunge type movements lend themselves quite well to progressive overload and strength building.

[XavierD]

Please show me an image of a skier weighting their ski in anything close to resembling a pistol position and why that would be better than a split squat where pretty much every single human can produce more force output and sustain more training volume?

Unless you’re a figure skater lol, it’s a pretty complicated and unique movement which is only really going to make you better at doing pistols.

Just because it is hard doesn’t make it useful.

[californiagrown]

Please show me an image of a skier weighting their ski in anything close to resembling a pistol position

[iriponsnow]

Please show me an image of a skier weighting their ski in anything close to resembling a pistol position and why that would be better than a split squat where pretty much every single human can produce more force output and sustain more training volume?

Unless you’re a figure skater lol, it’s a pretty complicated…...

^Not a figure skater. Both legs represent terminal ends of the Pistol with independent action.