Electric Bike Thread

[rod9301]

When I first started mountain biking I would ride lost giants to mole trap and ride the road back and I was dead tired after. Then I started going down new issues, kaya, bunny trails, and crossing the road and looping back down briar rabbit, lost giants and last call. Then I started climbing up to the "next level"...

I started from zero. I'm still a slow climber/Walkabiker.

I can understand not wanting to put the time and effort in to gain skills and fitness but the term elitist is so absolutely off base about mountain bike culture it makes me angry to read.

I have been welcome in this community with open arms like I have never been in my whole entire life.

I ride along and people know my name. It was like that when I had no skills on a 15 year old hard tail and it's the same now.

Most mountain bikers are not elitist, and the culture is pretty damn inclusive. Pro riders level ride with me... WITH me, not wait for me, but ride with me.

Pretty much all you have to do is show up and be stoked.

Attachment 242671Attachment 242672

The reason that want to ride with you is because they want to get laid.

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[mtngirl79]

You haven't been here long, have you?

[XXX-er]

giggle

[rideit]

Lol... I can actually provide written evidence of this. Hence my Marin talk earlier in this thread.

Got a link?
I am genuinely curious where his involvement would take the conversation.
Politics makes strange bedfellows, and all...

[ill-advised strategy]

When I first started mountain biking I would ride lost giants to mole trap and ride the road back and I was dead tired after. Then I started going down new issues, kaya, bunny trails, and crossing the road and looping back down briar rabbit, lost giants and last call. Then I started climbing up to the "next level"...

I started from zero. I'm still a slow climber/Walkabiker.

I can understand not wanting to put the time and effort in to gain skills and fitness but the term elitist is so absolutely off base about mountain bike culture it makes me angry to read.

I have been welcome in this community with open arms like I have never been in my whole entire life.

I ride along and people know my name. It was like that when I had no skills on a 15 year old hard tail and it's the same now.

Most mountain bikers are not elitist, and the culture is pretty damn inclusive. Pro riders level ride with me... WITH me, not wait for me, but ride with me.

Pretty much all you have to do is show up and be stoked.

Attachment 242671Attachment 242672

Maybe if it were like that here I’d see it your way. It’s not though. Not even close. And this is supposed to be The Place for mountain biking. All that really seems to mean is the mcmansion crowd has to buy a $3000 bike and a tailgate pad for the $70,000 truck and a “ntn” sticker so they have the patagonia street cred at the $8/beer microbrewery.
You can go ride a cheap hardtail (no Santa Cruz?!?) from your house (no sprinter van?!?) and go bang around on trails set up for fs bikes but you’ll be doing it alone.

[nest]

Maybe if it were like that here I’d see it your way. It’s not though. Not even close. And this is supposed to be The Place for mountain biking. All that really seems to mean is the mcmansion crowd has to buy a $3000 bike and a tailgate pad for the $70,000 truck and a “ntn” sticker so they have the patagonia street cred at the $8/beer microbrewery.
You can go ride a cheap hardtail (no Santa Cruz?!?) from your house (no sprinter van?!?) and go bang around on trails set up for fs bikes but you’ll be doing it alone.

bullshit

[JerseyDave]

Fuck yeah! Ten years from now, think about it. Oh shit!
Riding, straight-up walls, bishes.

I’m so in

Butt-er you berate people on the NE thread for riding a lift? Not trying to stir you up....but this seems like a real contradiction.

EMTB, for pussified humans that are too scared to throw a leg over a motorcycle, but far too lazy or out of shape to actually be Mountain Bikers.

This whole thing is really to grow the market. Control your local recreational resources. I have a 6 hour loop that I struggle to complete a few times a year. It is at my limit of strength, conditioning, and skill. I have never been able to complete the entire ride without walking a bit. It's out there....waiting for me. Sure when I had the WR I would bwap it out in a couple hours. What would it mean if I went out and completed this ride with an electric motor. Would I be fooling myself into feeling a sense of accomplishment? Would it be meaningful in any way. Would it represent anything in life. Would it be more fun to ride 35 miles in 4 hours assisted than to ride 20 miles in 4 hours under my own power? I mean, as a MTBer for the last 30 plus years....I just don't get it. I wonder where the appeal to those in the extended tribe. Fun? Meh. Not as rad as my chromag while ripping down. Not as rad as my WR ripping up hill. It really just seems like people want to pretend here. They want to zoom around all "Look at ME!" as if.....
FKN A. Keep it real posers....

[buttahflake]

Butt you berate people on the NE thread for riding a lift? Not trying to stir you up....but this seems like a real contradiction.

Huh? I don’t give a shit what you do with your time. I never said shit about riding lifts, like ever.

Go on now

[JerseyDave]

Huh? I don’t give a shit what you do with your time. I never said shit about riding lifts, like ever.

Go on now

My bad....
Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
"So, sounds like my plans have changed. Looks like I will go to the Giant Demo, get a park pass, and rally the Killington Bike Park (not really DH, more 'all mountain').
Want to do one climb, and the rest of the day descending.
Anyone have KBP beta?"
Dude, lame so lame.
Might as well rent an e-bike. Fucking bike park?

Go on now

[buttahflake]

Well yeah, if you are coming east to ride bike park, you lose!
Take many laps

[JerseyDave]

Well yeah, if you are coming east to ride bike park, you lose!
Take many laps

I'm happy for those areas. It keeps a lot of traffic off the goods. Shuttles as well. Big climbs with no shuttle option are a great filter. Ebikes bring that crowd to the back country.

[buttahflake]

I'm happy for those areas. It keeps a lot of traffic off the goods. Shuttles as well. Big climbs with no shuttle option are a great filter. Ebikes bring that crowd to the back country.

Nah, I don’t think so. It’s not like fat people are gonna start e-biking, en masse. It’s not gonna be a ground swell of new users. If it gets people off their couch and on a bike. I’m all in. I don’t think my local network is about to be overrun, with $4000 e-bikes. I want one for strictly class 4/snowmachine trail, hell zones. The places no one goes to in summer.

Future so bright

[mtngirl79]

Maybe if it were like that here I’d see it your way. It’s not though. Not even close. And this is supposed to be The Place for mountain biking. All that really seems to mean is the mcmansion crowd has to buy a $3000 bike and a tailgate pad for the $70,000 truck and a “ntn” sticker so they have the patagonia street cred at the $8/beer microbrewery.
You can go ride a cheap hardtail (no Santa Cruz?!?) from your house (no sprinter van?!?) and go bang around on trails set up for fs bikes but you’ll be doing it alone.

Trails aren't built for full suspension bikes...

You know happens when I ride a hardtail on "hard" trails?

People are like fuck yeah! You're riding a hardtail! Hell yeah!

I just dont believe that there is this massive difference in people here versus there...

Still doesn't change the fact that motors are motors, though.

[TahoeJ]

Got a link?
I am genuinely curious where his involvement would take the conversation.
Politics makes strange bedfellows, and all...

No link, but until she left the County several weeks ago, part of my wife's job was to process and organize all of the public comments on the EIR / initial studies she wrote for trail proposals / amendments. Her department has been trying for many years to improve access for mountain bikers. Let's just say Vandeman's crazy rants caught her attention early on.

And yes, e-bikes and not being able to tell the difference is now one of his talking points.

[ill-advised strategy]

Trails aren't built for full suspension bikes...

You know happens when I ride a hardtail on "hard" trails?

People are like fuck yeah! You're riding a hardtail! Hell yeah!

I just dont believe that there is this massive difference in people here versus there...

Still doesn't change the fact that motors are motors, though.

So let me just ask you this: do you figure I'm lying to you about my hometown and the situation here?

[rod9301]

Butt-er you berate people on the NE thread for riding a lift? Not trying to stir you up....but this seems like a real contradiction.

EMTB, for pussified humans that are too scared to throw a leg over a motorcycle, but far too lazy or out of shape to actually be Mountain Bikers.

This whole thing is really to grow the market. Control your local recreational resources. I have a 6 hour loop that I struggle to complete a few times a year. It is at my limit of strength, conditioning, and skill. I have never been able to complete the entire ride without walking a bit. It's out there....waiting for me. Sure when I had the WR I would bwap it out in a couple hours. What would it mean if I went out and completed this ride with an electric motor. Would I be fooling myself into feeling a sense of accomplishment? Would it be meaningful in any way. Would it represent anything in life. Would it be more fun to ride 35 miles in 4 hours assisted than to ride 20 miles in 4 hours under my own power? I mean, as a MTBer for the last 30 plus years....I just don't get it. I wonder where the appeal to those in the extended tribe. Fun? Meh. Not as rad as my chromag while ripping down. Not as rad as my WR ripping up hill. It really just seems like people want to pretend here. They want to zoom around all "Look at ME!" as if.....
FKN A. Keep it real posers....

Well, the difference between riding 35 miles vs 20 is that you have a lot more downhill to enjoy and improve your skills.



Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

[ill-advised strategy]

bullshit

Is that so? How would you know

[ill-advised strategy]

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Just like every other new thing that's better than the old thing, the initial butthurt will eventually look stupid.

[ill-advised strategy]

Butt-er you berate people on the NE thread for riding a lift? Not trying to stir you up....but this seems like a real contradiction.

EMTB, for pussified humans that are too scared to throw a leg over a motorcycle, but far too lazy or out of shape to actually be Mountain Bikers.

This whole thing is really to grow the market. Control your local recreational resources. I have a 6 hour loop that I struggle to complete a few times a year. It is at my limit of strength, conditioning, and skill. I have never been able to complete the entire ride without walking a bit. It's out there....waiting for me. Sure when I had the WR I would bwap it out in a couple hours. What would it mean if I went out and completed this ride with an electric motor. Would I be fooling myself into feeling a sense of accomplishment? Would it be meaningful in any way. Would it represent anything in life. Would it be more fun to ride 35 miles in 4 hours assisted than to ride 20 miles in 4 hours under my own power? I mean, as a MTBer for the last 30 plus years....I just don't get it. I wonder where the appeal to those in the extended tribe. Fun? Meh. Not as rad as my chromag while ripping down. Not as rad as my WR ripping up hill. It really just seems like people want to pretend here. They want to zoom around all "Look at ME!" as if.....
FKN A. Keep it real posers....

All the same stuff got said about fat skis. People pretending to be expert skiers. etc.

How about just that it's a bike that's easier to ride, and that seeking an arduous painful experience isn't everyone's makeup.

This whole thing is divided into people who understand a little bit about human thought and behavior and people who don't. Lots of different people get different things from recreation....a big part of this resistance to "any motor" seems to be the elitist attitude that "since my goal is fitness and overcoming physical trial, yours should be too"....how about this: fuck you, your values are not universal. Some people just like to roll through the woods without it being a physical trial. Maybe they're not secretly trying to compete with you....so you don't have to worry about them 'cheating' with a pedal-assist. If you want a physical trial, go have one....but don't insist that everyone out there has to enjoy what you enjoy, and do things the way you do them.

[mtngirl79]

So let me just ask you this: do you figure I'm lying to you about my hometown and the situation here?

No, I think your perception of reality is clouded by preconceived ideas and insecurities that come across as just a really bitter and negative attitude...

Every post about mountain biking from you has all been about what you don't have and can't afford versus what "they have" and you dont and cant and wont.

It makes me frustrated and sad because I like you and I want you (and everyone) to share the awesomeness...

And I just dont think Michigan is full of assholes.

[ill-advised strategy]

Well, the difference between riding 35 miles vs 20 is that you have a lot more downhill to enjoy and improve your skills.



Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

Or how about this: "I haven't been back there in years since my knee surgery. It was great to see that old tree where we used to have lunch. I'm glad this thing helped me get out there again."


How hard is this to understand? It's just a tiny amount of putting yourself in somebody else's shoes.

[mtngirl79]

All the same stuff got said about fat skis. People pretending to be expert skiers. etc.

How about just that it's a bike that's easier to ride, and that seeking an arduous painful experience isn't everyone's makeup.

This whole thing is divided into people who understand a little bit about human thought and behavior and people who don't. Lots of different people get different things from recreation....a big part of this resistance to "any motor" seems to be the elitist attitude that "since my goal is fitness and overcoming physical trial, yours should be too"....how about this: fuck you, your values are not universal. Some people just like to roll through the woods without it being a physical trial. Maybe they're not secretly trying to compete with you....so you don't have to worry about them 'cheating' with a pedal-assist. If you want a physical trial, go have one....but don't insist that everyone out there has to enjoy what you enjoy, and do things the way you do them.

And in some places, electric mopeds are appropriate and some they are not, but they are not bikes. They have motors and bikes do not have motors.

All your comparisons to ski versus snowboards or fat skis versus skinny dont work because there are no motors involved. Skinny tires versus fat tires is not the same as bicycle versus electric moped.

Everything isnt suppose to be easy. That is not an elitist statement.

[californiagrown]

And in some places, electric mopeds are appropriate and some they are not, but they are not bikes. They have motors and bikes do not have motors.

All your comparisons to ski versus snowboards or fat skis versus skinny dont work because there are no motors involved. Skinny tires versus fat tires is not the same as bicycle versus electric moped.

Everything isnt suppose to be easy. That is not an elitist statement.

Ban all carbon frames! Ban all sidpension! Ban all 11+speed drivetrains!

Making mtb too easy!!

[mtngirl79]

Or how about this: "I haven't been back there in years since my knee surgery. It was great to see that old tree where we used to have lunch. I'm glad this thing helped me get out there again."


How hard is this to understand? It's just a tiny amount of putting yourself in somebody else's shoes.

Or man this is a beautiful view. It was so worth the 5000ft climb to get here. Not another person anywhere, and just a ribbon of single track and a small dirt patch around the perfect rock to sit and have lunch for impact. Wildlife, wildflowers..

And off you ride, down about 3500ft before rejoining the masses..

Once it's easy to get there the place is full of people, fully impacted, the small patch of dirt is now bigger than a house. Cigarette butts mix with the dusty pebbles.

There are awesome places you can drive a car to. Others you can drive 4wheeler jeeps. Motorcycles, dirt bikes. Some you can only walk.

That's ok. Everyone cannot have everything and everything cannot be easy.

[ill-advised strategy]

Every post about mountain biking from you has all been about what you don't have and can't afford versus what "they have" and you dont and cant and wont.
.

When I moved to Colorado after high school, a rider could ride tons of stuff around here, jeep trails, dirtbikes, atvs...etc were all the same thing more-or-less. Now it's all locked down, and stratified into mtb trails where they're all routed through rocks and roots so the rich kids can play with the expensive bikes, and the rest of what I used to ride is grown over. So it's frustrating to have gone from the situation you describe, where most riders could just get out there on any fat tire bike and people were friendly, to a serious scene where people put on their lycra and parade their expensive stuff in the parking lot and the trails they've built are....as I've said 100 times now.....not built to be ridden on a cheap bike.

The entire county has undergone a huge transition in 30 years. Part of that transition has been that mountain biking...on mtb trails (not around town on bike paths and to the store or whatever) is now a serious, expensive thing done by people willing to spend thousands of dollars on it. There are a shit ton of old mountain bikes being ridden around town on bike paths and walking trails and whatnot, but that's not what we're talking about in this thread. The only handful of times I've seen anybody out on a cheap bike on our trail system they've been walking the bike, or injured next to it, or they fucked up and thought they could take a shortcut somewhere and now they're walking their bike over the rocks.

But it's not really about what I like, or what I personally want. I just have an issue with the elitism that says "what we do is the only acceptable use for this public space....take it or leave it."
Your fundamentalist value system is the only valid way of thinking....etc. My guess is this is going to look ridiculous in 10 years the same way I can find my own posts from 1997 ripping on fat skis and helmets...."skis for intermediates to pretend to ski powder".... it's stupid, people just want an easier way to go do something fun and you want to insist they do it the hard way. In my compromised physical state, I find that whole hardcore mentality lame. Pretty sure if I had a bike I didn't have to pedal hard, I could be out riding now. If I could ride a gasgas out on that stuff I'd be out there every day. The granola mafia keeps it for their little Carbon Fiber Owners Club. It is what it is.