What's going on?

[Mrs Roo]

Just got this from the BBC website:

'Police have tried to reassure Muslims they will crack down on those carrying out "revenge" attacks.

Five people have been arrested on suspicion of attempting to petrol bomb a Sikh temple in Belvedere, south-east London.

The Metropolitan Police's assistant commissioner Andy Hayman, said: "No-one should be in any doubt the work last Thursday is that of extremists and criminals.

"No-one should smear or stigmatise any community with these acts." '



A Sikh temple?? Do you see why I'm worried when there are ignorant right wing idiots now with an excuse to pick a fight.

[bad_roo]

A Sikh temple?? Do you see why I'm worried when there are ignorant right wing idiots now with an excuse to pick a fight.

Do you want me to get you a Baby Jeebus t-shirt?

Red? I didn't know you could do red.

[LAN]

Do you want me to get you a Baby Jeebus t-shirt?

[summit]

Tomorrow at 12.00pm GMT there will be a Europe wide 2 minute silence. It would be wonderful if one or two of you could show your solidarity and join us (as long as it isn't a totally heinous hour of the day of course).

For the time zone impaired American, 1200 Zulu on Thursday 14 July 2005 is:
0400 PDT
0500 MDT
0600 CDT
0700 EDT

Everyone join in if you are up (I will be for work). If you are asleep, I guess you will be silent anyways.

[bad_roo]

If you are asleep, I guess you will be silent anyways.

Except for snoring motherfuckers.

[Pinner]

Whatever became of the Blair administration's effort to address Islamaphobia in the UK?

[Core Shot]

Three suicide bombers, born and raised in UK, all from Leeds.
Hard to believe.

I do like the things the head of the Islamic Council is saying - hopefully he is saying them behind closed mosque doors.

[edg]

I don't want to provoke any wild opinions, but the discussion conducted by Snow on the Channel 4 news this evening was interesting: he asked (with very little paraphrasing here on my behalf) whether one of the interviewees, should he discover a member of his community was planning or musing such an attack, would go to the police and indentify the individual as someone for perhaps some careful attention. The answer was neither consise, direct or definitive, but it certainly wasn't yes.

That worries me. A lot.

edg

[13]

One of the things that really concerns me is that when these attacks happen, there doesn't seem to be widespread and outspoken condemnation by Islamic leaders, in the West or Islamic nations.

[mr_gyptian]

One of the things that really concerns me is that when these attacks happen, there doesn't seem to be widespread and outspoken condemnation by Islamic leaders, in the West or Islamic nations.

don't hold your breath.

[PNWbrit]

From Thursday's Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlo...527429,00.html

Ten days ago Shahzad Tanweer, a 22-year-old British Asian, was playing cricket in the local park with his friends. It was something he loved to do. He was a sporty young man who loved martial arts, drove his dad's Mercedes and had many friends in the Beeston area of Leeds.
"He is sound as a pound," said Azi Mohammed, a close friend. "The idea that he was involved in terrorism or extremism is ridiculous. The idea that he went down to London and exploded a bomb is unbelievable. "I only played cricket in the park with him around 10 days ago. He is not interested in politics."
Thought to have been educated at Lawnswood school in Beeston, and a sports science graduate from Leeds University, Shahzad had a brother and two sisters. They were all born in Bradford before moving to Leeds with their parents 20 years ago.

"At school he loved cricket best of all sports. He wanted to be in a county team," said his father's best friend, Mohammed Afzal.

Shahzad's friends, who have not seen him for more than a week, said they were worried about him. "He is missing, man, we are worried about him," said Azi, one of several of Shahzad's friends in the Beeston area. They dress in jeans and T-shirts and seem to shun traditional Islamic dress.

"Shahzad went to a few mosques around here but he was more interested in his jujitsu. I trained with him all the time; he is really fit."

Shahzad's father, Mohammed Mumtaz, was originally from the Faisalabad region of Pakistan.

It is thought Shahzad had recently visited Pakistan. The 22-year-old did not have a regular job but sometimes worked in his father's fish and chip shop, South Leeds Fisheries, a few streets from his home. It is one of several businesses Mr Mumtaz has owned, including a curry takeaway and a meat shop.

According to family and friends Shahzad, despite his secular appearance, went to many mosques but was a regular at the Bangali mosque on Dewsbury Road near his home.

The imam, Hamid Ali, said yesterday: "Maybe they did it, maybe they didn't. But someone did it and they deserve to be punished."

Shahzad was the product of parents who worked hard to build a business after arriving in Britain from Pakistan. As a little boy he played in the streets and alleyways of the culturally mixed working class community of red brick Victorian houses in Colwyn Road which his family made home when he was seven.

Neighbours say they recall him as a smiling boy who would play cricket and football with his friends and his brother on the streets. His father's business grew steadily from a small curry takeaway in Beeston, which he owned with Mr Afzal, to a popular fish and chip shop.

Eventually, with the help of Mr Afzal, his father bought the house next door and knocked the properties through.

Shahzad and his siblings would work in his father's takeaway after school and as teenagers helped behind the counter of the fish and chip shop.

"He has a great sense of humour, he is a really intelligent lad and he has loads of friends round here," said Azi.

There were signs that recently he was becoming a more hardline Muslim. He went to the mosque every day, and was a regular at at least three local mosques.

"Whenever you saw him he would always say he was on his way to the mosque," said a friend who did not want to be named.

His mother, Parvez Akhtar, and father are respected in Beeston. "They are all good people. All Shahzad wanted to do was to have a laugh," said Azi.

In Stratford Street, Beeston, a friend of Hasib Hussain, another of the suspected bombers, said he was very tall and known as a gentle giant.

"He never came across as a fanatic," said the friend, who did not want to be named. He said that Hasib, 19, and Shahzad were very good friends: "Shahzad was always telling kids to stay out of trouble and make something of their lives."

He added that Hasib had travelled to the hajj - the Muslim pilgrimage - in Mecca.

[mr_gyptian]

not only the hajj, but one of them attended a madrassa.

oh and 13, you could have held your breath.

Tony Blair on Wednesday met a delegation of Muslim MPs to discuss the discovery of the suspected bombers.
The Muslim Council of Britain says it reacted with "anguish, shock and horror" to news that British-born Islamic youths were involved in the attacks.

The council's secretary-general, Sir Iqbal Sacranie, said: "Nothing in Islam can ever justify the evil actions of the bombers."

Shahid Malik, whose Dewsbury constituency was the scene of police raids in the bombing investigation, said the Muslim community faced a "massive wake-up call".

He told BBC News after his meeting with Mr Blair: "The challenge is straightforward - that those voices that we have we tolerated will no longer be tolerated, whether they be on the streets, in the schools, in the youth clubs, in a mosque, in a corner, in a house.

"We need to go beyond condemning - we need to confront."


while muslim leaders from the US weren't really as forceful. the Indonesians were after 9/11.

Truth be told, this shouldn't be much of a shock. outside of the boy next door type of B.S. after serial killers are outed standard bylines. this type of hate has been allowed to foment for quite some time in muslim communities. their outspoken leaders blatantly use hate speech against anglos, specifically the US and GB, to recruit and motivate their followers. unless it is stopped, which means infringing on freedom of religon/speech(I don't know exactly how this workd in GB), things like this will continue all over Europe. the influx of arab muslims into Europe is at an all time high and only increasing. Co-existence is obviously attainable. but letting a growing community in each country blatantly use hate speech against the citizenry will only breed more of these incidents.

[warthog]

I assume he'll be playing in the world games which is July 22-24. Hopefully he's just busy getting prepared for that.

He plays for Clapham, and there is no mention of anything on their site. Hope to hear from him soon.

[Mrs Roo]

Co-existence is obviously attainable. but letting a growing community in each country blatantly use hate speech against the citizenry will only breed more of these incidents.

It isn't communities that use this sort of language. It is hardline individuals that creep around within them. There is resentment amongst some Muslims over what they see as crimes against their brethren in Afghanistan, Bosnia and Iraq. Many muslims have that view but would never turn to violence. The issue here is what then tipped these young men over the edge so that they became willing suicide bombers.

Some people have challenged some individuals and asked them why as British born Muslems they wouldn't put the interests of Britain first. Many of them do but they are bound to have an affinity with their people abroad. It's human nature. My family are from Mauritius. If the British invaded Mauritius (again) and killed many people while striving for 'regime change' I would be very torn about my loyalties.

The irony is that as a city, London is predominantly left wing and many of its citizens marched through its streets against the Iraq war.

[mr_gyptian]

Oh, these bombings were in connection with the war in Iraq? here I was under the impression that they were organized by Al Qaeda. the two are mutually exclusive, no?


but yes this is a community problem. whether it is these hard liners that are given free reign to use hate speech to motivate their followers, it is the community that turns a blind eye to it that deserves blame also. the thing I cannot understand about islamic extremism, is it's unique ability to kill innocent muslims in increasingly large numbers. christ, didn't one of the bombs go off in a sub station that has a largely muslim traffic? how many have they killed in Iraq? why do you think they are so unpopular in Egypt and Algeria?

[Mrs Roo]

Oh, these bombings were in connection with the war in Iraq? here I was under the impression that they were organized by Al Qaeda. the two are mutually exclusive, no?

It would appear that the wrong people did make that link. It also appears that there are many others who do. Western foreign policy has been blamed as the fuel that has fired much of this sort of opinion. It is not my opinion, I am just telling what many muslims have expressed.

There are wrong 'uns in any community. What is the difference between these young men and the right wing thugs who attempted to petrol bomb a Sikh temple yesterday. They are all ignorant, they all have misguided extreme views, they have all been moved to acts of violence intending harm to groups they view as alien and a threat to their way of life. Were the christian communities aware of the right wing thugs living amongst them? I suspect not. Extremists are far more sophisticated and shadowy than in the past.

[mr_gyptian]

This is good news: a Pew poll reported by WaPo.


Osama bin Laden's standing has dropped significantly in some key Muslim countries, while support for suicide bombings and other acts of violence has "declined dramatically," according to a new survey released today.

In a striking finding, predominantly Muslim populations in a sampling of six North African, Middle East and Asian countries are also as alarmed as Western nations about Islamic extremism, which is now seen as a threat in their own nations too, the poll found. . . .

Compared with previous surveys, the new poll also found growing majorities or pluralities of Muslims surveyed now say democracy can work in their countries and is not just a political system for the West. Support for democracy was in the 80 percent range in Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon and Morocco and the highest score at 43 percent in Pakistan and 48 percent in Turkey, where significant numbers were unsure.

"They are not just paying lip service. They are saying they specifically want a fair judiciary, freedom of expression and more than one party to participate in elections. It wasn't just a vague concept," said Andrew Kohut, president of the Pew Research Center and director of the project. "U.S. and Western ideas about democracy have been globalized and are in the Muslim world."

[Mrs Roo]

This is good news: a Pew poll reported by WaPo.


Osama bin Laden's standing has dropped significantly in some key Muslim countries, while support for suicide bombings and other acts of violence has "declined dramatically," according to a new survey released today.

In a striking finding, predominantly Muslim populations in a sampling of six North African, Middle East and Asian countries are also as alarmed as Western nations about Islamic extremism, which is now seen as a threat in their own nations too, the poll found. . . .

Compared with previous surveys, the new poll also found growing majorities or pluralities of Muslims surveyed now say democracy can work in their countries and is not just a political system for the West. Support for democracy was in the 80 percent range in Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon and Morocco and the highest score at 43 percent in Pakistan and 48 percent in Turkey, where significant numbers were unsure.

"They are not just paying lip service. They are saying they specifically want a fair judiciary, freedom of expression and more than one party to participate in elections. It wasn't just a vague concept," said Andrew Kohut, president of the Pew Research Center and director of the project. "U.S. and Western ideas about democracy have been globalized and are in the Muslim world."

That's interesting. I wouldn't mind a closer look. Have you got a link to it?

[Arno]

Hmmmm... but terrorism has never been about what the majority of Muslims (or any other group from which terrorists emerge) think - it's about what a certain minority decide to do in the name of Islam or whatever

[mr_gyptian]

That's interesting. I wouldn't mind a closer look. Have you got a link to it?

looks like it's n=17000, so maybe not the most representative example.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248

analysis here: oddly it seems our GWOT is not having the effect Bob Hebert editorializes about. no surprise there.

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8444