OFFICIAL 2018 MLB THREAD

[Brock Landers]

David Wright? Poor mans Scott Rolen. Get out of here with that shit.

Craig Biggio was a very good player. For a long time. Never was he ever a great player. Get out of here with that shit

Jim Rice was the best hitter in the league for 6/7 years. HOF should have been first ballot.

[iceman]

Eddie Murray 500HR 3255 hits 68 WAR that guy could play

[Brock Landers]

Eddie Murray is better than Craig Biggio

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Biggio: 65.5 WAR in 2850 games
Ian Kinsler: 57.6 WAR in 1790 games

If Kinsler manages to play mediocre outfield for the next 6 years, is he a hall of famer?

The answer is no, unless he got 3000 hits, because he will be compared to Robinson Cano. Biggio's main comparison is Robbie Alomar who put up 67 WAR in 500 fewer games. Now that guy was spectacular (though not on the level of Cano), but he fell of a cliff in his mid 30's and he didn't get the 3000 hit hype and people didn't like him.

Murray played even more games than Biggio. His 68 WAR came in over 3000 games. Mookie Betts has 34 WAR in 634 games. Murray and Biggio deserve plenty of credit for sticking in the league for so long. But they aren't the stuff of legend. They historically were consistent. That's one way to get enshrined. But you didn't call to your son, "Get in here! Eddie Murray is at bat!" or "Hey, let's see if Biggio gets hit by a pitch for the 300th time!"

And Jim Rice is one of the worst players in the Hall. Kick out Rice and Perez and induct Dwight Evans and Lou Whitaker. Unlike Biggio and Murray, Evans and Whitaker were still above average player into their late 30's.

[Sirshredalot]

Biggio: 65.5 WAR in 2850 games
Ian Kinsler: 57.6 WAR in 1790 games

If Kinsler manages to play mediocre outfield for the next 6 years, is he a hall of famer?

The answer is no, unless he got 3000 hits, because he will be compared to Robinson Cano. Biggio's main comparison is Robbie Alomar who put up 67 WAR in 500 fewer games. Now that guy was spectacular (though not on the level of Cano), but he fell of a cliff in his mid 30's and he didn't get the 3000 hit hype and people didn't like him.

Murray played even more games than Biggio. His 68 WAR came in over 3000 games. Mookie Betts has 34 WAR in 634 games. Murray and Biggio deserve plenty of credit for sticking in the league for so long. But they aren't the stuff of legend. They historically were consistent. That's one way to get enshrined. But you didn't call to your son, "Get in here! Eddie Murray is at bat!" or "Hey, let's see if Biggio gets hit by a pitch for the 300th time!"

And Jim Rice is one of the worst players in the Hall. Kick out Rice and Perez and induct Dwight Evans and Lou Whitaker. Unlike Biggio and Murray, Evans and Whitaker were still above average player into their late 30's.

But Biggio wasn't consistent! He broke in as a guy who hit well for a catcher for the first three and a half years of his career, then he transitioned to second base, became the best leadoff hitter in the game for the better part of a decade, faked center field for a while to keep his bat in the lineup, and then was basically replacement level for his brief return to 2b and swan song as a corner outfielder.

His production was all during his big peak in the mid to late '90s. He wasn't much good during the later years of his career after he moved off second, and prior to that he was a bad glove catcher who won one silver slugger in a weak field.

He was remarkably durable for a guy who played c, 2b, and cf, but it's not like he was a 3 WAR per year guy who played for 20 years.

[Brock Landers]

Jim Rice was the best hitter in the league (either league) for 6 years minimum.

Hall. The BEST. if you've never been the best I think you have a hard time getting in. Unless you're trot nixon. I'll give in to the haters...he wasn't the best. But he won rings and tried hard.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

But Biggio wasn't consistent! He broke in as a guy who hit well for a catcher for the first three and a half years of his career, then he transitioned to second base, became the best leadoff hitter in the game for the better part of a decade, faked center field for a while to keep his bat in the lineup, and then was basically replacement level for his brief return to 2b and swan song as a corner outfielder.

His production was all during his big peak in the mid to late '90s. He wasn't much good during the later years of his career after he moved off second, and prior to that he was a bad glove catcher who won one silver slugger in a weak field.

He was remarkably durable for a guy who played c, 2b, and cf, but it's not like he was a 3 WAR per year guy who played for 20 years.

You're absolutely right. He was eternal more than consistent. How the hell did he miss so few games while getting hit by so many pitches?

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Jim Rice was the best hitter in the league (either league) for 6 years minimum.

One. He was the best hitter in the world for one season (1978).

[TNKen]

David Wright was rehabbing in St. Lucie with my future SIL. Says he is a genuinely nice guy.

Mets treat players like stock. Buy cheap, sell high.

Pete Alonso, who moved to AAA this year lead the minors in most all categories. And yet for "management reasons" they would not promote him to the bigs after the minors season concluded and the roster expanded.

[ex-powderbroker]

rolen was a nice player but no mike schmidt. beltre is probably the best modern day 3b i’ve seen. that guy plays hard and can beat a team on offense and defense.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I love Beltre. Few have been better in their 30's. Sox messed up big time not signing him.

[ex-powderbroker]

One. He was the best hitter in the world for one season (1978).

don’t worry, brock doesn’t know what he’s talking about. sox fan, after all.

[ex-powderbroker]

jetes

[ex-powderbroker]

where’s the love for sid fernandez? that guy was a gamer.

[irul&ublo]

David Wright was rehabbing in St. Lucie with my future SIL. Says he is a genuinely nice guy.

Mets treat players like stock. Buy cheap, sell high.

Pete Alonso, who moved to AAA this year lead the minors in most all categories. And yet for "management reasons" they would not promote him to the bigs after the minors season concluded and the roster expanded.

That may be because if they keep him down for a certain period of time, they can stave off arbitration for another year

[I've seen black diamonds!]

don’t worry, brock doesn’t know what he’s talking about. sox fan, after all.

Yankee fans have the same delusions about Mattingly. Those two are pretty similar. Good power numbers and batting average for a few years, but not many walk, and then HR's and avg went down and they were nothing special

[irul&ublo]

Yankee fans have the same delusions about Mattingly. Those two are pretty similar. Good power numbers and batting average for a few years, but not many walk, and then HR's and avg went down and they were nothing special

For Mattingly it was 6 years straight. After he fucked up his back, he lost a lot of power. Kinda raises the question of how long do you need to be at the top? Kinda like Terrell Davis with The Broncos. First four years, he was a god. Injuries took him out. How long is long enough? Koufax was at the top from 62-66. Won the Cy Young (3d) in 66, and had to retire, at 30. Only 5 years.

[ex-powderbroker]

i prefer the nomar comparison and evans over either

[SkiCougar]

and the both west's tightens as Astros lose and A's win, not a done deal for the Astros yet. and the damn cardinals are just rolling over for the dodgers. that crap has to stop, so the rockies can play in October.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

For Mattingly it was 6 years straight.

Fun fact: Don Mattingly had a higher WAR than Wade Boggs only once in his career: 1992 when neither of them was particularly good.

[Sirshredalot]

You're absolutely right. He was eternal more than consistent. How the hell did he miss so few games while getting hit by so many pitches?

How the hell did he miss so few games while leading the league in hbp and playing catcher and 2nd? Those positions chew you up and spit you out.

[irul&ublo]

Fun fact: Don Mattingly had a higher WAR than Wade Boggs only once in his career: 1992 when neither of them was particularly good.

Who was comparing Boggs and Mattingly? Boggs had much better numbers

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Who was comparing Boggs and Mattingly? Boggs had much better numbers

I understood you to be saying that Mattingly was the best hitter in the league over a six year period. Because that was what was being said about Rice.

[irul&ublo]

Not what I meant...my point was meant to be that from 84-89, Mattingly put up HOF numbers. He hurt his back in 87/88, and started trailing off. Point then was how long do you need to play at the top level to be considered for HOF

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Not what I meant...my point was meant to be that from 84-89, Mattingly put up HOF numbers. He hurt his back in 87/88, and started trailing off. Point then was how long do you need to play at the top level to be considered for HOF

I think it depends if a guy is one of the best right now (like Mattingly, Nomar, Wright), or has some of the best seasons ever (Pedro, Koufax). If Mike Trout didn't do much for the rest of his career I'd vote him in the hall. He's got Lou Gehrig numbers. Jim Rice had Dave Parker numbers in a better baseball market and with lots of RBI's (all the rage back then) later in his career courtesy of Wade Boggs who got on base more than anyone else in the last 50 years. He broke that 100 RBI threshold a couple times without being all that good.

Mattingly had Jim Rice numbers with a less HR's. He had a similar RBI effect with Ricky Henderson for a few years. The year Mattingly had a 145 RBI's Henderson scored 146 runs (which is an insane outlier in an era that favored pitchers). Not a coincidence. You don't get 145 RBI's without being very good. But you also don't get them without Ricky being Ricky.