Ikon Pass

[Skidog]

So if JHMR and Big Sky (understandably, the two most anti-Ikon local voices here) were to go full Ikon next season (unlimited days for $949) would that make the situation better or worse? Happier locals saving $1000 on their season pass with the same crowding? -OR- Even more crowding with out of town Ikoners staying longer/ skiing more days and still angry locals even with $1000 extra in their pockets? Would you buy an Ikon if it offered unlimited days at your hill?

Yes if the price was better than a full boat pass to said resort. Why wouldnt you? I actually think this might make more sense to participating resorts. Whatever Ikon resort you buy your pass through is your Home resort with unlimited days, and you get the bonuses of other resorts.

[Bunion 2020]

Yes if the price was better than a full boat pass to said resort. Why wouldnt you? I actually think this might make more sense to participating resorts. Whatever Ikon resort you buy your pass through is your Home resort with unlimited days, and you get the bonuses of other resorts.

Exactly my line of thinking.

If I buy a Gold Pass at BS for $ 1375.00 and got 5 or 7 days at all other associated hills it would take me off the hill for a bunch of days and help reduce the lines.

The alternative is I buy a Mon-Thurs. pass for $450.00 and an Ikon pass for $949.00 ($ 1399.00) total and my home hill loses out on 9 bills.

[PNWbrit]

Whatever Ikon resort you buy your pass through is your Home resort with unlimited days, and you get the bonuses of other resorts.

Isn't this what all the Alterra owned resorts are already doing... it's how the Xtal pass works. (so far).

[muted]

I think the dynamic here is that lots of bozemanites who only ski like 15-20 days a year only buy a bridger pass because it's cheaper/closer, etc.

You forgot great terrain, good vibes, great management, and better snow.

[dcpnz]

Seems the problem is at the independently owned premium resorts - JH, Aspen Snowmass, Alta etc. where the resort season pass cost is the highest, comes with no IKON benefits and yet they're the places many ikoners are heading to.

The PR story of increased usage being locals not ikoners is not telling the whole picture. Working locals with season passes always skied the weekend. Increased local usage due to conditions is on weekdays when the mountain is still basically empty. Until i see solid statistics proving otherwise i'm maintaining it's the addition of the front range ikoner that is causing the crush on weekends, i base that on numerous chairlift conversations, the store stickers on skis and the obvious pass flapping around people's necks.

What's the solution:
Don't know but I'd be a lot less annoyed at the ikon influx if for my $1800 season pass I got some ikon benefits elsewhere. Charge me a modest but optional surcharge to add it if needed but don't make me pay ticket window rates at affiliated resorts and don't make me buy a full ikon as well as a full local pass.

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[Bunion 2020]

You forgot decent terrain, good vibes, great management, and different snowfall patterns.

FIFY.

Don't get me wrong, I love BB for the reasons you mention, and especially for 2 & 3. Given the choice I made mine long ago. I will be up to BB next Thursday if all goes right.

[muted]

Yeah, like you I don't want to get into which is better, they ski so different. But saying the only reason people buy a pass to BB because it's closer and cheaper is ridiculous. It has an amazing community and damn fun terrain, and there is only one BB cloud.

[Skidog]

Isn't this what all the Alterra owned resorts are already doing... it's how the Xtal pass works. (so far).

Places like Alta are not alterra and especially pride themselves over the year as serving up a quality product. The ikon might be changing that and turning long time locals who always bought $1k passes to seek alternatives to the masses.

[sb]

[Talisman]

Exactly my line of thinking.

If I buy a Gold Pass at BS for $ 1375.00 and got 5 or 7 days at all other associated hills it would take me off the hill for a bunch of days and help reduce the lines.

The alternative is I buy a Mon-Thurs. pass for $450.00 and an Ikon pass for $949.00 ($ 1399.00) total and my home hill loses out on 9 bills.

I think the 2019-2020 Gold pass is $1600....

[PNWbrit]

Places like Alta are not alterra.

Yep. I know that.

and especially pride themselves over the year as serving up a quality product.

Not sure that's the main motivator.

The ikon might be changing that and turning long time locals who always bought $1k passes to seek alternatives to the masses

Yep..

I doubt it's going to get better for anyone in the long term.

[Sam Apoc]

What's the solution:
Don't know but I'd be a lot less annoyed at the ikon influx if for my $1800 season pass I got some ikon benefits elsewhere. Charge me a modest but optional surcharge to add it if needed but don't make me pay ticket window rates at affiliated resorts and don't make me buy a full ikon as well as a full local pass.

This seems reasonable and, honestly, shocking that something like that hasn't already been rolled out. Isn't it true that all passholders at Mountain Collective resorts get 50% off window rates at other MC resorts? Seems like Ikon would/should have the same thing.

[Smoova]

Are you sure they can hide the scheduled maintenance from serious buyers? You likely no more than I, but my understanding of the biz is that it’s connected and aware of what others are doing at an operational and facilities level.

Happens all the time in M&A in any industry with significant equipment/steel. Seller's ability to pull it off depends on the deal structure, diligence terms, identity/horny-ness of the entity performing the diligence and competence of the diligence team.

[Bunion 2020]

It has an amazing community and damn fun terrain, and there is only one BB cloud.

QFT! And the old argument has been done to death.

I think the 2019-2020 Gold pass is $1600....

If that is the case then I would say they are sending a message. Dear locals, fuck you. In all honesty I think that Big Sky is completely over the entire Dirtbag ethos and opinionated seasons pass holders. I think they would just as soon not have to deal with us.

And in real reality, unless you happen to move to Big Sky (or just about any similar mountain ski town) with a shit pot of cash and/or a really good income that you can sustain, the days of the local skiers eking out a life and skiing 100+ days are over but that has been covered as well. For a lot of people, Local now means, I live in Bozeman and work down here.


I am pretty sure you are looking at the top end price for the 2018/19 Gold pass.

Gold Adult Pass 2018/19
Ages 26-64 Gold Pass Details
Direct to Lift Access to all of Big Sky Resorts Lifts and 5,800 acres from November 22nd 2018 through April 21st 2019
No Blackout Dates
Includes access to the Lone Peak Tram
Five $79 Bring a Buddy Tickets
50% off Window Tickets at 16 Participating Mountain Collective Resorts

I don't see where the 2019/20 prices have been listed.

[yeahman]

I think the 2019-2020 Gold pass is $1600....

Where are you getting this information? Inside source? Because prices have not been made public yet.

[Skidog]

Yep. I know that.



Not sure that's the main motivator.



Yep..

I doubt it's going to get better for anyone in the long term.

It's like peer pressure forced them to do it. I always understood Alta to be profitable. People came ikon or not. Now the people come but it seems Alta probably won't be making the same day ticket sales numbers, yet still is, to some, now offering an inferior product. It's weird why they even joined. Like self cannibalization.

I will say that maybe it will get better crowd wise. Maybe the travelling ikoners have always wanted to ski Alta or JH and this pass made that possible and now they "did it" and won't be in a rush to return? I'm obviously going by what I'm hearing from close friends as I'm far away now, but it sure sounds like it's worse now and I hope for them it gets better somehow.

I don't personally recall the influx of epic, as I'm hearing about ikon, but epic for sure made a difference in crowds far as I could tell.

Now that Alta joined the collective pass phenomenon I can't imagine they would opt out. That might turn away travellers altogether and hurt numbers worse. Opting out now would almost make them seem snobbier than most already think they are.

[Bunion 2020]

Weird isn't it?

I always considered places like Alta to be so freakin unique that they should be able to market themselves as just that and not have to follow the rest of the areas.

[Skidog]

Weird isn't it?

I always considered places like Alta to be so freakin unique that they should be able to market themselves as just that and not have to follow the rest of the areas.

They used to. Gotta be in the cool crowd now I guess

[PNWbrit]

I always understood Alta to be profitable.

Maybe they were but it's very difficult for a corporation to refuse the promise of bigger profits or the threat of being un-competitive in their industry. Even if it's at the expense of locals experience or uniqueness.

[Core Shot]

All these resorts had MC the last few years.
But MC is 2free then half off
It was self limiting. You had to come out of pocket for a five day trip and yet two days was not always worth a road trip

Ikon is waaayyy different. A week here a week there, etc etc.

Met three different families in JH that said it was always on their bucket list and the free skiing made them pull trigger this year.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

I know nothing about how the mechanics of these mega passes actually work, but I'm gonna assume the people on the boards/investors don't ski and don't actually live anywhere near these mountains.

From a business standpoint it's all numbers obviously. Why wouldn't it be. Only the people that are actually on the mountain can see that crazy lift lines and fucked up traverses/side steps full of gaggles of lost people actually diminishes the overall experience for everyone.....season pass holding local OR ikon traveler.

[yeahman]

All these resorts had MC the last few years.
But MC is 2free then half off
It was self limiting. You had to come out of pocket for a five day trip and yet two days was not always worth a road trip

Ikon is waaayyy different. A week here a week there, etc etc.

Met three different families in JH that said it was always on their bucket list and the free skiing made them pull trigger this year.

MC also gets you a third day at the resort of your choice, plus half off all additional days--PLUS no blackout days, which is huge when you're kids are in school. I'm seriously looking at MC passes for my family next year, depending on what kind of prices Big Sky comes out with for gold passes. We could do a Christmas trip to Lake Louise, a spring break trip to JH, all in addition to our usual Big Sky trips. Plus we would be more motivated to hit other mom and pop areas around Montana. I think MC might actually work for us next year. I'm still crunching the numbers though.

Big part of my decision making here is I'm going to be taking classes all next year and simply not able to ski Big Sky as much as usual, which is 50-60 days. I'll be lucky if I get 20 there next year, but I could make up for that with trips to other areas.

Damn these mega-pass fuckers are sucking me into the vortex...

[Talisman]

Where are you getting this information? Inside source? Because prices have not been made public yet.

Big Sky website

[yeahman]

Big Sky website

They have not posted next year's prices on the Big Sky website yet.

[skaredshtles]

This is how the Ikon is working out for our family this season:

Several days at Copper
Several days at Winter Park
5 days in Utah just after New Years (Deer Valley, Alta, Bird, Soli, Brighton)
3 days in Utah early Feb (Alta, Bird, Solitude)
4 days at Steamboat for 1st half of Spring Break
4 days at Aspen for 2nd half of Spring Break

Already scheming for next year to hit Alberta/BC probably for Spring Break... and if snow conditions warrant, we may do a 3-day Big Sky/3-day JH trip after New Years.

I, for one, welcome our Ikonic overlords.



At the same time, I can understand the angst among those locals that don't get any "perks" with their single-mountain season passes...