Ikon Pass

[phatty]

I think this will increase local traffic a little, but the main draw for Alterra is the Seattle folks they can get traveling to CO and UT. Amazon and MS stock is up and those folks are willing to spend it. That's where they are going to make their money. You won't get too many people traveling just for Crystal and Summit. The unlimited days could be a draw for holidays, though. All those Base pass peasants can enjoy our beautiful Seattle Christmas times.

[The SnowShow]

I think this will increase local traffic a little, but the main draw for Alterra is the Seattle folks they can get traveling to CO and UT. Amazon and MS stock is up and those folks are willing to spend it. That's where they are going to make their money. You won't get too many people traveling just for Crystal and Summit. The unlimited days could be a draw for holidays, though. All those Base pass peasants can enjoy our beautiful Seattle Christmas times.

No? I’d think people would want to travel to Crystal. I don’t see people from Seattle traveling to ski Copper or WP.

[skaredshtles]

No? I’d think people would want to travel to Crystal. I don’t see people from Seattle traveling to ski Copper or WP.

I'd wager they'd head to Steamboat or Aspen/Snowmass, though.

[Name Redacted]

No? I’d think people would want to travel to Crystal. I don’t see people from Seattle traveling to ski Copper or WP.

Really? I worked in a rental shop in Summit a very long time ago and we saw a decent amount of people from the PNW. They like how sunny, dry, and groomed it is here. SEA>DEN is pretty cheap direct flights too.

But yeah, WP and Copper aren't exactly a big of a draw as the Epic resorts, yet. But they are both making some pretty substantial improvements in the lift infrastructure. And there's also a little place called "Aspen" and Steamboat.

[phatty]

No? I’d think people would want to travel to Crystal. I don’t see people from Seattle traveling to ski Copper or WP.

Not much in the way of lodging and nightlife at Crystal. And it's far enough away from Seattle you wouldn't want to stay in the city and drive to Crystal every day if you were on vacation.

They are shooting for the upwardly mobile tech worker who wants to head to Colorado or Utah for powder and spend their Amazon and MS lottery winnings. I hear these discussions every day. A coworker (non-maggot) just said he was buying an Ikon so he can go to CO for a week. Had never heard of it before today. Once he heard about Crystal, he was all in.

[consultant22]

Really? I worked in a rental shop in Summit a very long time ago and we saw a decent amount of people from the PNW. They like how sunny, dry, and groomed it is here. SEA>DEN is pretty cheap direct flights too.

But yeah, WP and Copper aren't exactly a big of a draw as the Epic resorts, yet. But they are both making some pretty substantial improvements in the lift infrastructure. And there's also a little place called "Aspen" and Steamboat.

Any idea how much more traffic Copper and WP are going to have this year on blackout days given that they have no restrictions on IKON base? I imagine a lot of people will plan a trip to Denver for Presidents Day weekend.

[Hott Butt Mud]

Benny will ski Crystal in jeans.

Do not fret people!

[The SnowShow]

Any idea how much more traffic Copper and WP are going to have this year on blackout days given that they have no restrictions on IKON base? I imagine a lot of people will plan a trip to Denver for Presidents Day weekend.

I’m expecting an Epic shitshow.

[2FUNKY]

I’m expecting an Ikonic shitshow.

Fify

[PNWbrit]

Benny will ski Crystal in jeans.

Do not fret people!

Pockets full of breakfast soup.

[Danno]

Any idea how much more traffic Copper and WP are going to have this year on blackout days given that they have no restrictions on IKON base? I imagine a lot of people will plan a trip to Denver for Presidents Day weekend.

Maybe, but maybe lots of their usual "local" skiers will travel to Aspen or steamboat or Jackson.

It's hard to imagine those resorts more packed on President's day weekend. There's only so much lodging.

[Hott Butt Mud]

Maybe, but maybe lots of their usual "local" skiers will travel to Aspen or steamboat or Jackson.

It's hard to imagine those resorts more packed on President's day weekend. There's only so much lodging.

Agreed. And I feel (just a gut feeling) that there's only so many skiers (& snowboarders) too. I don't look over industry stats, so someone please let me know. I just get the feeling that the ski bum is dead, and that middle-income people aren't taking up skiing as a major influential sport in their lives, so again, there are only so many skiers to go around.

On the other hand, I get that these pass wars are all about the major metropolitan areas. Denver, Salt Lake City, Seattle, San Fransisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City, Detroit, Boston, etc.

[Benny Profane]

Agreed. And I feel (just a gut feeling) that there's only so many skiers (& snowboarders) too. I don't look over industry stats, so someone please let me know. I just get the feeling that the ski bum is dead, and that middle-income people aren't taking up skiing as a major influential sport in their lives, so again, there are only so many skiers to go around.

Yup. Like I said before, it's a zero sum game. Just shuffling the chairs here and there. Skiing is not growing, and it's not as though this stuff will inspire many to learn. Who knows, Crystal may be pleasantly uncrowded certain weeks because that's when a lot of Seattle types went away because of this pass.

[Norseman]

Never ski a powder Saturday. Do your wash, clean the fridge. Just dont.

Consider yourself told Norse....

Haha.

Crowd-control tactics are on lock with any weekend resort scene nowadays, eh? Evade the gaper; learn his schedule and invert; use the gates, traverses, and hikes. And tour.

It is quite feasible to enjoy powder weekeends at Mt Dweebus.

[pipedream]

Come stand in line for our upper mtn two-seater, Bunny. I promise you'll receive a glowing reception ..

[thefortrees]

Norse appears to have the correct the strategy for weekend pow days. I’m following him.

Benny - have fun doing laundry.

Has anybody compared skier visit numbers before and after a resort was on the Epic pass? My personal theory is these large conglomerate passes likely spread people out across more resorts.

[Tippster]

I wonder if they'll add some S. American resorts for 2019.

[Foggy_Goggles]

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. Nobody knows what will happen short or long term. I'm with Brit, who will be first to try Business Model 3.0 and increase prices, decrease skier days in a effort to market a premium experience? Deer Valley-esk

This is certainly first worldish, but don't underestimate to effect his has on peoples real lives. The scope of the change is yet to be seen however people's mindset is definitely changing form having a "home ski area" to "travel to ski". Families (with passes) now don't have to pay for lift tickets to take ski vacation. This is driving up demand (reservation centers get inquires immediately once a location is added). This factors into the price of lodging and the value of real estate.

Personally, if I knew the IKON pass was sustainable, I would make some life changes. Live on a ranchette outside of K Town, work less, ski Steamboat, Copper or Wanker as needed. Longer trips to PNW, Jackson, UT on the regular. Move to Junction and get a sweet RV? The options would change.

[TahoeJ]

I wonder if they'll add some S. American resorts for 2019.

Hope so - planning to head down to Portillo. It's a lot easier to convince a crew to fly all that way if their lift tickets are already paid for.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Somebody write some code that compares expected snowfall at IKON areas and airline tickets prices from DIA, SLC etc.

[Danno]

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. Nobody knows what will happen short or long term. I'm with Brit, who will be first to try Business Model 3.0 and increase prices, decrease skier days in a effort to market a premium experience? Deer Valley-esk

This is certainly first worldish, but don't underestimate to effect his has on peoples real lives. The scope of the change is yet to be seen however people's mindset is definitely changing form having a "home ski area" to "travel to ski". Families (with passes) now don't have to pay for lift tickets to take ski vacation. This is driving up demand (reservation centers get inquires immediately once a location is added). This factors into the price of lodging and the value of real estate.

Yeah, this won't make more people into skiers, but it will likely change skier behavior. Some will buy passes that might not have done so otherwise, some will travel more, etc.

[PNWbrit]

Hope so - planning to head down to Portillo. It's a lot easier to convince a crew to fly all that way if their lift tickets are already paid for.

Not sure how that'd fit in with their business model of weekly, full board* rates that include lift ticket?

*mostly

[brutah]

Utard here and with the inclusion of Alpental and Crystal to the Ikon Pass, I am now planning a trip to the PNW to ski those areas.

[PNWbrit]

It is quite feasible to enjoy powder weekeends at Mt Dweebus.

Cleaning the fridge.... fuck that shit.

[Woodsy]

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. Nobody knows what will happen short or long term. I'm with Brit, who will be first to try Business Model 3.0 and increase prices, decrease skier days in a effort to market a premium experience? Deer Valley-esk

This is certainly first worldish, but don't underestimate to effect his has on peoples real lives. The scope of the change is yet to be seen however people's mindset is definitely changing form having a "home ski area" to "travel to ski". Families (with passes) now don't have to pay for lift tickets to take ski vacation. This is driving up demand (reservation centers get inquires immediately once a location is added). This factors into the price of lodging and the value of real estate.

Personally, if I knew the IKON pass was sustainable, I would make some life changes. Live on a ranchette outside of K Town, work less, ski Steamboat, Copper or Wanker as needed. Longer trips to PNW, Jackson, UT on the regular. Move to Junction and get a sweet RV? The options would change.

lots of good points in here to unpack, but one thought to add as someone who was very close to the business model a while back, the end goal (obviously) is to increase non high demand skier visits. You black out the holidays when you max out anyway and try and get people into the shoulders we have all thrived on as locals at some point in our lives. I still hold April is the best ski month in CO & UT and a big part of that is noone is there. The impacts that has long term will be interesting indeed, think they will just expand black outs and yield it more efficiently from a revenue point of view.