21.1.18 CO Red Mountain Pass fatal avalanche

[ASmileyFace]

Smiley, sorry for the loss of your friend.

None of this discussion is meant to blame Abel or “skier#1”. We’re just trying to draw lessons.

Thanks. I appreciate the discussion everyone is having. No one is coming across in a bad way. I know I'm personally trying to learn as much as I can from this terrible thing.


The rib is the one in Alpinord post. There were pictures in the full report also have an "intended line" drawn on it with a circle around where the accident happened.

I just acquired some Baofengs and have gotten them working recently for the reasons you guys have talked about. Unfortunately they didn't have the radios that day. I know I will be carrying them in the backcountry nearly every time I go from here on out.

[cravenmorhead]

I see the rib in the photos; I just don't have a sense of scale - are 20' trees? So a 50 yard wide safe(er) zone? Less?

As for jongiest's question about how to stay on route, one of my strategies has been to stop more often that I may want to (particularly in good snow) to take a look around at where I am in the "big picture" of the slope. Otherwise I have a tendency to focus on the 10'-20' in front of me and lose perspective on where I am relative to other markers.

[knumbskull]

Condolences to all affected parties.

That bit in the accident report about the gun struck me. This has nothing to do with the circumstances of the accident but it begs the question, since we have some people here familiar with the people involved, why was he packing heat? It has never occurred to me to bring a gun BC skiing.

[galibier_numero_un]

... Any BC skier that says they haven't made a mistake and drifted off their intended line is lying.

That would be me (the drifting part). Very humbling, and my first thought when I read the report.

... Thom

[muted]

Is there really a solution to be found, like walkie-talkies or whatever? Only thing I can draw from this is picking a completely different zone for the conditions of the day. Humans make errors, I know I do. It looks possibly confusing on where to go on the top part.

I remember skiing a safe conservative line here in Utah last year, and then came upon a steep 30' long pitch that was flat at the bottom (terrain trap). I skied it quickly and didn't even think of how dumb it was until I got to the car. That would have been easily avoidable if my brain was turned on, I wasn't lost at all. But Sam's trees seems like the ridge could be hard to follow until you hit the open ridge part. Or if you've skied it a million times and know where you are...on high consequence days, is it better to be conservative and NOT trust yourself by picking a better zone?

[Name Redacted]

My first thought about the gun would be the fact that a .22cal wouldn't be very loud to begin with. Interesting side occurrence to the overall rescue though. A whistle is the standard, and everyone should have one and know to use it.

[AlpiNord]

I see the rib in the photos; I just don't have a sense of scale - are 20' trees? So a 50 yard wide safe(er) zone? Less?

As for jongiest's question about how to stay on route, one of my strategies has been to stop more often that I may want to (particularly in good snow) to take a look around at where I am in the "big picture" of the slope. Otherwise I have a tendency to focus on the 10'-20' in front of me and lose perspective on where I am relative to other markers.

I'm guessing the tree to the left of RIP in the photo above is maybe a 20 footer or so and the little guy 6' or so.

The blogger's video gives you some sense of the area and the visibility and sounds. Google earth may help getting a sense of scale.

Around:
37°52'2.52"N
107°43'53.04"W



Smiley, correct me if I'm wrong, but the gully skier's right of the spine is on the order of this (3 miles away), I think. Along with similar trees:

[adrenalated]

Is there really a solution to be found, like walkie-talkies or whatever? Only thing I can draw from this is picking a completely different zone for the conditions of the day. Humans make errors, I know I do. It looks possibly confusing on where to go on the top part.

I wasn't trying to say that having radios would have prevented the accident. It's possible that they could have helped, or changed the circumstances of the accident and rescue. It's also possible the outcome would have been exactly the same. But it's something to think about.

Choosing terrain that is simple and has a wide margin for error is always something to consider especially if you are uncertain of conditions or if the consequences are severe.

[cravenmorhead]

Choosing terrain that is simple and has a wide margin for error is always something to consider especially if you are uncertain of conditions or if the consequences are severe.

I think that's an important point to keep front-of-mind when planning tours on high danger days. Particularly on high powder stoke/considerable to high danger days I've had days where my group has purposefully selected zones where nothing is over 30 degrees or at least it is very easy to identify and avoid the areas that are, in part to make route finding easier and in part to keep ourselves from being lured onto steeper terrain by the promise of good snow/better turns/etc.

[TEXASS]

The only way to avoid an Avalanche is to not go on snow. But we on these pages make regular trips into areas you should not. We have all slipped into areas that we didn't intend to go into.
A few years back one of the safest guys I knew got taken out.
His Name was Wade Galloway and He went by the handle "tree Pilot" Great guy. Always made sound decisions.
Once we lost Tree Pilot I realized it can happen to anyone who puts on skis or a board.
And yes, on rare occasions it happens inbounds
For us, its tragic and we take the risks.
For our friends and families who don't venture out it seems like a waste.
But how do you choose to live your life ? You can take it safe and maybe be happy, but for most here that's really not an option
We can pay respects to the fallen and go to avy classes but in the end we are all guilty .

Rest In Peace Abel.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I'm guessing the tree to the left of RIP in the photo above is maybe a 20 footer or so and the little guy 6' or so.

The blogger's video gives you some sense of the area and the visibility and sounds. Google earth may help getting a sense of scale.

Around:
37°52'2.52"N
107°43'53.04"W



Smiley, correct me if I'm wrong, but the gully skier's right of the spine is on the order of this (3 miles away), I think. Along with similar trees:

I know it looks pretty innocuous, but I don't think I would want to ski in the shaded part of the gully in the second two photos given sketchy continental snowpack. I think I'd sidehill it over in the sun.

[summit]

Some takeaways for us who remain:

1. Always reevaluate your situations and be willing to change your plans. This group realized they were in a bad spot and changed their plan to avoid the danger they rightly perceived.

2. They considered scene safety: they moved to a safer location to continue treatment due to worry of hangfire. First rule of rescue: make no more victims. Ask yourself: "do I have the gear and knowledge to move my buddy over snow even a few hundred meters?" Do you carry a tarp or bivy or rescue sled? (emergency blankets will not do this... they'll shred)

3. It was probably a few feet of miscalculation between safety and death. Who knows why they got off route. If you must stay precisely on route to avoid avalanche hazard in terrain where it is easy to get off route, you should consider if you have a comp skier's line memory. You can also go to a different zone and come back another day. The slope will still be there.

4. If you are already on the slope, don't forget that Plan Z is going back the way you came.

5. During your beacon search, do not bury your nose in the beacon. Constantly scan for surface clues. If you can ski right to a glove or a boot, you don't have to futz around with flux lines and probes. You must frequently practice with your beacon to gain a comfort level where you are able to take eyes off during a search.

6. Even if your hackles are not up, you need to take disciplined care with managing your group travel. It is so so so so so easy to get lackadaisical about signalling, communicating, using true safe zones, and being truly eyes on. This accident was actually two skiers caught in two separate slides and one self-rescued. It could have easily been a double fatality. If you practice disciplined travel techniques when things are good, it will be ingrained and automatic.

7. It struck me was how little snow there was, how there was no obvious hard slab... how seemingly innocuous the terrain was... but we run ourselves through our mental checklists:

Avalanche activity on similar nearby slopes noted by the group and this group triggered a slide prior to the fatal slide.
Loading from new snow and wind transport
Path was identified to avoid
Rating was Considerable with storm and persistent slab problems foretasted on their chosen aspect and elevation.
Terrain traps... gully and trees, identified to avoid
Unstable snow? Cracking and whoompfing reported by multiple parties

McCammon created ALPTRUTh because it was the list of criteria that seemed ever present from his statistical analysis of accidents, even among educated parties.

8. Communications: We've covered the gun vs whistle. Think about what other methods you have so that you don't have to leave your buddy to get help. Radios, cell phones, and/or sat beacons...

With those tools they would have had 4 people to help treat and move the patient instead of 3... then 2... then 1.

9. Medical: they knew CPR! Good. Everyone in the BC should should CPR and at least first aid. I'm not a doctor, but I'll tell ya that if an avalanche victim needs CPR, you probably should crank out several minutes (WMS says 30 minutes) of CPR before you leave to get help. Stopping CPR and resuming it 10 or 20 minutes later is a futile though valiant effort.

[teleee]

Some takeaways for us who remain:

1. Always reevaluate your situations and be willing to change your plans. This group realized they were in a bad spot and changed their plan to avoid the danger they rightly perceived.

2. They considered scene safety: they moved to a safer location to continue treatment due to worry of hangfire. First rule of rescue: make no more victims. Ask yourself: "do I have the gear and knowledge to move my buddy over snow even a few hundred meters?" Do you carry a tarp or bivy or rescue sled? (emergency blankets will not do this... they'll shred)

3. It was probably a few feet of miscalculation between safety and death. Who knows why they got off route. If you must stay precisely on route to avoid avalanche hazard in terrain where it is easy to get off route, you should consider if you have a comp skier's line memory. You can also go to a different zone and come back another day. The slope will still be there.

4. If you are already on the slope, don't forget that Plan Z is going back the way you came.

5. During your beacon search, do not bury your nose in the beacon. Constantly scan for surface clues. If you can ski right to a glove or a boot, you don't have to futz around with flux lines and probes. You must frequently practice with your beacon to gain a comfort level where you are able to take eyes off during a search.

6. Even if your hackles are not up, you need to take disciplined care with managing your group travel. It is so so so so so easy to get lackadaisical about signalling, communicating, using true safe zones, and being truly eyes on. This accident was actually two skiers caught in two separate slides and one self-rescued. It could have easily been a double fatality. If you practice disciplined travel techniques when things are good, it will be ingrained and automatic.

7. It struck me was how little snow there was, how there was no obvious hard slab... how seemingly innocuous the terrain was... but we run ourselves through our mental checklists:

Avalanche activity on similar nearby slopes noted by the group and this group triggered a slide prior to the fatal slide.
Loading from new snow and wind transport
Path was identified to avoid
Rating was Considerable with storm and persistent slab problems foretasted on their chosen aspect and elevation.
Terrain traps... gully and trees, identified to avoid
Unstable snow? Cracking and whoompfing reported by multiple parties

McCammon created ALPTRUTh because it was the list of criteria that seemed ever present from his statistical analysis of accidents, even among educated parties.

8. Communications: We've covered the gun vs whistle. Think about what other methods you have so that you don't have to leave your buddy to get help. Radios, cell phones, and/or sat beacons...

With those tools they would have had 4 people to help treat and move the patient instead of 3... then 2... then 1.

9. Medical: they knew CPR! Good. Everyone in the BC should should CPR and at least first aid. I'm not a doctor, but I'll tell ya that if an avalanche victim needs CPR, you probably should crank out several minutes (WMS says 30 minutes) of CPR before you leave to get help. Stopping CPR and resuming it 10 or 20 minutes later is a futile though valiant effort.

Summit, great summary of lessons learned not only from this but pretty much every single incident I have ever been directly or indirectly involved in. Thanks for summarizing, in an analytical and not judgmental fashion. I try to run through a lot of these items in my head every single time, and it is ho so hard to stay focused when that overhead blower kicks in the adrenaline.
My sincere condolences to all involved.

[jacob_dbu]

Thank you very much Summit. That was very informative.

How many people on here has some level of WFR or more? That's another class / learning opportunity that I'd need to put on my list for the future.

[Woo-Dus]

The 3 shots for help comes from hunters. It’s unlikely to fire 3 rapid shots at an animal so they adapted that to mean SOS.

Route finding and sticking to your chosen line for me has been a life long excercise of research and staying mindful of my location. Growing up being allowed to explore the woods of Maine gave me a base to start from, once I got to CO the terrain was different but I felt the basics were there to add on to. Hiking has been the best tool for learning because of the pace, transferring that to skiing I mentally use the end destination and small makers throughout my descent.

The mountains are beautiful and unforgiving. That’s why we go.

Sorry for your loss Smiley.

[splitlit]

These types of threads are a reminder of all those small mistakes I've gotten away with over the years, and taking the massive consequences that can result for granted.

Way too young. RIP