Shifting from the drops???

[Bluebird]

I am looking at my first road bike and my budget is pretty low, $500-600. My local LBS has me looking at a Jamis Satellite (http://www.jamisbikes.com/bikes/05_satellite.html). So far I like it. I test rode another Jamis with similar geometry and frame and it felt good and the steel frame seems pretty bomber. (coming from a mtb biker anyway) I have been looking into the Shimano Sora compenents online and keep coming across this comment "you can't shift from the drops". What does that mean? This whole shifter with the brake lever is new to me anyway so I am not really sure what they are talking about.

Bike will be used for commuting in very hilly terrain as well as training rides.

[Artie Fufkin]

I am looking at my first road bike and my budget is pretty low, $500-600. My local LBS has me looking at a Jamis Satellite (http://www.jamisbikes.com/bikes/05_satellite.html). So far I like it. I test rode another Jamis with similar geometry and frame and it felt good and the steel frame seems pretty bomber. (coming from a mtb biker anyway) I have been looking into the Shimano Sora compenents online and keep coming across this comment "you can't shift from the drops". What does that mean? This whole shifter with the brake lever is new to me anyway so I am not really sure what they are talking about.

Bike will be used for commuting in very hilly terrain as well as training rides.

I don't know anything about Sora, but looking at that bike those look like standard Shimano brifters(brake/shifter combo) and there shouldn't be a reason you could not shift from the drops. The comments could indicate that the shifting action from the drops is not that good as compared to 105, Ultegra or Dura Ace. That's my quess.

[Telenater]

You can't shift when your hands are down on the lowest section of the bars (actually you can shift on way, but not both).

The sora component set has a little button that's activated by your thumb when your hands are up on the Hoods (the top of the brakes/shifters).

[Artie Fufkin]

You can't shift when your hands are down on the lowest section of the bars (actually you can shift on way, but not both).

The sora component set has a little button that's activated by your thumb when your hands are up on the Hoods (the top of the brakes/shifters).

I was wrong.

Those sound like my campy Athena brake/shifters.

[cj001f]

You can downshift in the drops on Sora but not upshift. (i.e lower gear ratio but not higher gear ratio)

[Bluebird]

Having not ridden a rode bike since Jr. High, is this a deal breaker? Am I going to wish I was able to upshift from the drops? I like the bike but from Mt Biking I am weary of the lower end componenets. I am going on the theory that with rode bikes they:
a) don't take the beating that MTB's take
b) I should be able to "foresee" when I need to shift so the shift doesn't need to be immediate
c) A lot of the added value of good rode components is less weight.

Does this sound right? Any thoughts on the bike?

[Telenater]

I've never had a problem with the shifting, but I also spend most of my time on the hoods while commuting.

But, if you're planninng on hard training/racing it'll be more of an issue.

[Bluebird]

No hard training. Just some commuting and training rides, ie. when the trails are too wet to ride.

[Sphinx]

I can shift from the drop with my Sora shifters just fine. Yeah, the button isn't as easy to reach as 105 and up, but it's really not a big deal.

I don't spend much time on the drops anyway.

[Bluebird]

Thanks all. I don't think it will be a problem. I think I might have to pull the trigger. I can't wait to start riding it to work. My Mtb bike is going to like the break. Hopefully I can cut some minutes off as well.

[cj001f]

Yeah, the button isn't as easy to reach as 105 and up, but it's really not a big deal.

105's and up don't have a button. In the drops my thumbs are an inch or more away from the Sora button. On a long descent it's irritating not to be able to upshift. It's not a big deal, but irritating.

Sora in general aren't bad, but if you ride regularly it's cheaper to just get 105. They are better.

[Cornholio]

I understand your budget, and I also understand that you realize that Sora's upshift is a thumb button that is challenging but not impossible to hit on the drops.

I just wanted to add this:

Don't buy Sora. Just don't. It is incredibly cheap stuff, and I'm constantly adjusting and fixing broken parts on my girlfriends Sora-equipped road bike. The step up in quality to Tiagra or 105 is really more than the price difference. I'm sure you're psyched to ride to work, and good on ya', but I'll wager that you'll be happier in a year if you wait a month and save the dough for a 105-equipped frame.

Look around on the web, you'll see I'm not alone.

[Bluebird]

The problem seems to be that to get a 105 or Tiagra from I am looking at a ~ $300-$400 bump in price. Does that seem right? Is it something I can upgrade in a year/season for a $100 or so (with ebay, etc.)? When you say crap is a durability issue or will I be constantly missing shifts and clunking through gears. I hate that.

My old MTb required that I upshift two gears and then downshift one to hit it right. I swore that I would never buy a compenet group that did that again. Is that the case with Sora?

Does the frame on the Satellite seem like a good buy. Like I said, I am not really sure I will ever be a roadie but I don't want to be buying crap either.

tough call, and I unfortunately I am a complete Jong in regards to road bikes.

[Bluebird]

Also, the web got me to ask this question but at the same time most roadie web sites are like ours is with skis. Buy 190's and look p12's or better or just go home. Is there an Epic ski for roadies?

[Viva]

I was at Copeland Sports last weekend and took a look at the Jamis Road bikes there because of a recent thread here (Crinkle maybe?). The Satellite looked like crap. A very clunky and heavy looking steel frame with shit wheels. Now, this can be fine for the newby (i.e., not so in shape, but not too fat) commuter, but if you already have some extensive mtb experience, you may end up not very satisfied. Have you test ridden this buke? Take it out and ride it hard. Get out of the saddle and sprint that sucka. Does the bike seem to strain and groan under the load? If this is so, then it's not for you.

I think that you're better off looking for a used bike. My last six road bikes/frames were purchased used and all were in at least great shape (Two ended up being dogs, but that's another story.). You ought to be able to find a nice ten year old steel frame bike with 8-speed Ultegra components for
$400-600. something like that will give you far better performance and riding pleasure than the Satellite.

Edit- while it's not as stupid as EpicSki (And, really, other than bruintalk, what is?), have a looksey at roadbikereview.com I think that they even have a newby discussion section there.

Good luck, Doood!

[p-tex]

I've said it in other threads and still think it is the best deal for new roadies -

Buy a quality used bike, take it to a shop and have the cables and chain changed = happy long term bike rider.

py Sora stuff will just make you frustrated in the long run. You can get some great used steel bikes with good componets for the type of $$ you talking. You might even find an aluminum bike with a carbon fork if you get lucky.

[Cornholio]

Sora is heavy, poorly machined, and not durable.

For a while-- 3-4 months-- Sora will work fine. It will be clunky to shift, especially under power, but it will go (...with a sickening lurch that will have you looking behind you to make sure all your parts are still on).

Then, it will start to drag.

Then, it will start to miss.

Then, it will start to break.

Somewhere in here, while pouring over eBay ads for component upgrades, you'll wish you had spent an extra $300 for 105 when you had the chance.

And, you'll find, when looking for these upgrades you'll need, that you can't find any. Why not? Because Sora is strictly 8 speed, and the other groups dropped an 8-speed option last year.

Check out the Felt F80. It's a Tiagra/105 mix retailing for $850.

[scoober]

I'll just reiterate a lot of what has been said already.

Yeah, unfortunately Sora is garbage. It is not even a step above the 'nameless' Shimano component ranges you find on Wal-Mart bikes. It is basically the last option for a bike company to get some semblance of a bike with gears out the door for under $600. The leap to Tiagra and then 105 is definitely noticable and definitely worth it.

I had read somewhere that Shimano had spent more time and money developing Tiagra than they did Ultegra and Dura-Ace 9sp. It was designed to be inexpensive yet highly functional.

The shifting from the drops thing all just comes down to a few test rides. You'll know if you can handle it or not.

We all sound pretty funny "oh, I couldn't imagine not downshifting from the drops". To be honest I don't want to put up with it either. But remember when bikes had downtube shifters and that's all you could do? Travesty.

[L7]

But remember when bikes had downtube shifters and that's all you could do? Travesty.

That's what I was going to say. Hell I only gave up my down tube shifting less than four years ago. Half the time it was just in friction shift and not SIS or click shifting. You get used to it and it's not like I ever missed a break for a bad shift.

OTOH if it's shit stuff you might as well spend a bit more for something that will last. If you commute steady on it you want it to be reliable and durable.

[Sphinx]

There's a bunch of gear sluts on this forum.

Carl, my bad, poorly worded.

I haven't had problems with the Sora components on my bike in the year that I've been commuting on it. The wheels are another story (and reason alone to spend a bit more on the bike).

Yeah, if you can afford it, get a higher quality bike. But for the love of god, if you believe what you read here you'll think that you can't ride a block on an entry level road bike without breaking something.

A cheap bike is better than no bike.

[Plakespear]

Yeah, unfortunately Sora is garbage. It is not even a step above the 'nameless' Shimano component ranges you find on Wal-Mart bikes.

Umm, as a mechanic who has worked on plenty of Sora and Wal-Mart bikes, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Yeah, Sora isn't top of the line, but it's not garbage, either.

I had read somewhere that Shimano had spent more time and money developing Tiagra than they did Ultegra and Dura-Ace 9sp. It was designed to be inexpensive yet highly functional.

That is true, but most of the breakthrough technology came on the Dura-Ace 8 Spd STI. And Ultegra pretty much equals Dura-Ace- 2 years. They probably do very little R&D on Ultegra- it's just trickle down Dura Ace technology.

Also, for under $600 you can get a Trek 1000. It gas Sora shifters, but a Tiagra R Derailleur and a Carbon Fork as well.

[Kellie]

Edit- while it's not as stupid as EpicSki (And, really, other than bruintalk, what is?),

We need to talk about the constant Bruin slamming - it's starting to hurt my feelings . . .

[Bluebird]

Thanks for all the help. As for going used, how far back would you go? 10 years seems kinda steep... a 10 year old mountain bike is an antique by now. My only problem with finding used bikes is they are pretty scarce in my area. I would have to buy it online and being a newbie that definitely scares me.

I am going to look into some felts. The nearest dealer is an hour or two away but 8it could be worth it.

I didn't get to test ride the Satellite but I rode a frame very similar (Jamis Steel but without the carbon fork). It felt pretty good, but maybe I need to go back and ride it again.

[El Chupacabra]

I am looking at my first road bike and my budget is pretty low, $500-600. My local LBS has me looking at a Jamis Satellite (http://www.jamisbikes.com/bikes/05_satellite.html). So far I like it. I test rode another Jamis with similar geometry and frame and it felt good and the steel frame seems pretty bomber. (coming from a mtb biker anyway) I have been looking into the Shimano Sora compenents online and keep coming across this comment "you can't shift from the drops". What does that mean? This whole shifter with the brake lever is new to me anyway so I am not really sure what they are talking about.

Bike will be used for commuting in very hilly terrain as well as training rides.

If that Jamis is $500-600 from your LBS, that's not a bad deal at all, based on the specs in that jamisbikes.com link. Jamis has a good rep for offering good deals at given price points; this looks like another winner for an entry-level road bike. However --

Can you do all your bike maintenance yourself? Can you build a bike up from dealer-ready condition (e.g., cut cables, adjust brakes, adjust derailleurs, install saddle, true wheels, etc.) If so -- and I know I've pimped this place before here -- check out bikesdirect.com. My fiance just got a "Motobecane" branded bike from there, I built it up, really nice quality for the price. They are totally generic frames, built in Taiwan, basically same as you would get from KHS or Fuji, but different stickers/paint. The one she got was built by Kinesis, who does lots of frames & forks for the big-name brands. They've got a pretty nice selection of bikes w/ 105 group in the $750-800 range, if that'll fit your budget (no shipping cost, no sales tax). So if you don't care what the name is on your bike, and are willing to take the probably-very-low-resale value of a generic bike (i.e. keep it a looong time), I'd say check it out.

If you can't build the bike yourself (or bribe a buddy to do it for you), don't mail order a full bike. Your LBS won't really appreciate it when you haul in a mail ordered bike box and ask them to assemble it... and then they'll charge you $$$ to do the work.

-Karl

P.S. I have no relation to bikesdirect, just pleased with the deal we got on the bike from them.

[scoober]

Umm, as a mechanic who has worked on plenty of Sora and Wal-Mart bikes, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Yeah, Sora isn't top of the line, but it's not garbage, either.

OK, so you called me out on my gross hyperbole. Well done. But don't try to start pulling bike mechanic rank.

As a mechanical engineer, with a background in mechanical design and manufacturing, who has been wrenching my family's fleet of bikes for 10 years, (ranging from Sora to Dura Ace, and everything in between), I feel pretty qualified to give my opinion on the product lineup, based on performance, construction, and material usage, and the subtle (or not so) differences between ranges.

For the problems that I have dealt with on Sora equipped bikes (poor poor shifting even with dead nuts on adjustment, pressed pivot fasteners coming loose, crappily stamped parts just acting like general crap) it is a no brainer to scrap another $100-200 together to get a bike with at least Tiagra derallieurs on it. Whether that is going to another brand like Felt, a house brand like Supergo's Scattante, or going used, it will be worth it over the long run.

I am all for budget bikes, but part of the budget challenge is getting something that you will want to ride for more than 2 months, that you can really get your money's worth out of in terms of mileage.

I don't think there is too much snobbery going on here. There are a few actual accounts of people having bad experiences with Sora, and suggesting to shoot a little higher (and/or used).