Tahoe conditions?

[Telenater]

I've only been on Gnardanelles a few times, but it has several problems that are immediatly apparent to me having done trail maintenance.

1. Heavy incision, caused by routing over poorly compacted substrate
2. Erosion control near the stream. The trail is laid out so that erosion control would be almost impossible to implement particularly down near the stream (and the Upper truckee river is federally listed as being out of compliance based on sediment loading.
3. Poorly constructed switchbacks that don't allow clearance of runoff.


The USFS has been putting a lot of effort into updating their trail maintenance methodology to be able to accept mtb traffic without undue impacts. We're starting to see it implemented in the Downieville area. It'll also be good to see in the Tahoe area.

[lph]

as long as it remains, 'gnardenelles' I will be happy. there are certainly some sections i would like to see improved, but as Arty said it is the best trail i have ridden in south shore as it is a challenge every goddamn time you ride it.

[Superstar Punani]

Damn I am craving some Tahoe lovin.

Roll call weekend of July 9-10? I wanna hit up Mr Toads and Gnardanelles. Car shuttles dammit. Climbing is for fags.

[powpig]

My buddy's band was playing a couple gigs up here this weekend and a couple guys wanted to go for a ride Sat. They didn't want anything too crazy so we decided to give the Rim Trail from Mt Rose to Tunnel Creek a try. Knew we'd hit some snow but was surprised at just how much is still there. Mostly the first third of the ride, some entirely unrideable patches, especially on that first climb. The shady tree'd areas will be the last to melt, the exposed areas are clear and in great shape, helped out by so little rider traffic thus far.

[lph]

wsd and I did gnardanelle's yesterday (after hitting scott's lake, round lake and dardenelles lake) and the conditions are PRIMO on those rides.

xmas valley downhill is in really good shape right now. NO snow, a couple mud patches. the steep gnarly rock garden is about as rideable as it gets.

Just make sure you bring some OFF as the mosquitos are unbearable if you have to stop or slow down. Changing a flat was hell as we got eaten alive.

I wish i could i ride with you PU, in fact i would much rather do toad's and xmas valley than this idiotic death ride.

BTW, Pu, when you do xmas valley downhill, take the left that leads out to dardenelle's lake, it is a great out and back with some truly gnarly rock gardens, the lake is beautiful and warm enough to swim in. you don't really do much climbing, it is just kind of rolling singletrack out to the lake and back.

[NorCalSJK]

Little off topic...but how does Toads compare to Downvieville as far as difficulty? I've searched/done some reading and it seems like you have choices as far as the lines in the techie parts...true? I rode Downieville on a older Stumpy HT and did well(nothing to brag about) and just got a bling'd out C-dale Prophet, so i know that will help. Just wondering if i should make a run to Toads this week.

[lph]

Little off topic...but how does Toads compare to Downvieville as far as difficulty? I've searched/done some reading and it seems like you have choices as far as the lines in the techie parts...true? I rode Downieville on a older Stumpy HT and did well(nothing to brag about) and just got a bling'd out C-dale Prophet, so i know that will help. Just wondering if i should make a run to Toads this week.

just about anyone can ride toads, there are some sections that most people walk, and i have taken gutsy beginners on there and they enjoyed it, because even though they walked alot, there was still alot to ride. (i know you are not a beginner just trying to make a point). you will end up walking alot of the climb as well, which is also pretty technical singletrack.

however, in comparison to downieville, well, there really isn't any comparison. downieville is like a really fun fast green circle that meanders it's way down the mountain.

Toads, on the other hand is technical, and at times extremely technical. it is a rock garden for the upper 2/3. the lower 1/3 is alot like third divide, fast and non-technical. The ride has everything except mandatory airs.

it is single track top to bottom, and there are no choices in lines. whoever said that is crazy.

DO IT!!!

[lph]

Toads is good to go, hit one pile of snow on the way up and about 14 on the way down. No big deal just groove killers, WIth the temps we are having the snow is melting fast !

last year i did toad's in those conditions and didn't enjoy it. part of what i love about toads is the rhythm and riding for long periods of time without stopping.

xmas valley is the way to go right now, imvho.

[freshies]

i rode Emigrant on Sat, and it was $$$$. Perfect shape, fast and smooth, rode late in the day to beat the heat, and had the trail to myself.

[Superstar Punani]

BTW, Pu, when you do xmas valley downhill, take the left that leads out to dardenelle's lake, it is a great out and back with some truly gnarly rock gardens, the lake is beautiful and warm enough to swim in. you don't really do much climbing, it is just kind of rolling singletrack out to the lake and back.

Can you do Xmas Valley and Gnardanelles on the same ride? (I'm familiar with the part where you park your car off 89, do the little climb, then ride across that meadow, followed by more climbing to get to the start of Gnardanelles where they have that memorial for that poor local kid who died.

Also what's the name of the dead end street in Meyers where Gnardanelles ends? (Is it Grass Lake Road?) You know, where I would park my car to shuttle up instead of the hellish 89 climb

I'm planning to head up this weekend to hit the trails with the Dirty Aussie. Anyone else? Where's little red riding pants? I wanna see him do the Wile E thing again and taco the front wheel. That was funny-ass shit!

[NorCalSJK]

Anyone want to ride tomorrow? I'm in the East Bay, but would travel for a good ride.

[lph]

there are presently 3 stream crossings on the out and back to Dardenelle's lake, all of them are rideable, though you will get wet.

Pu, there is a post at the left hand turn you take to get to dardenelle's. do what Ja said, ride down from the top, make the right hand turn at the 3 way intersection, then just about 1/2 mile on the left is the singletrack to go to the lake, then return to the main trail and take it right down to south upper truckee where your car awaits.

[Superstar Punani]

Oh sweet. Thanks for the names and directions ja_surf and lph!

NorCalPwdr- I'm thinking of hitting Skegg's tomorrow, but may depend on how hard Lumbergh wants to pound me in the ass tomorrow for some tight deadline TPS reports

[Arty50]

You know, where I would park my car to shuttle up instead of the hellish 89 climb

Oh, yeah. That's the most hellish climb ever. Slacker!!!!

I'm planning to head up this weekend to hit the trails with the Dirty Aussie. Anyone else? Where's little red riding pants? I wanna see him do the Wile E thing again and taco the front wheel. That was funny-ass shit!

I'm probably in. Besides, I know you'll get lost without someone to show you around. LRRP is out since he'll be throwing up somewhere along the Death Ride course.

[watersnowdirt]

The 3 Lakes Tour with lph was a great time on Sunday. Gnardanelles kicked my ass as usual, and once again, I've got the bruises to prove it (as soon as my bruises from Moab had cleared, no less.).

What a fun ride! Hopefully a TR will be done soon.

Norcal and Pu - skeggs tomorrow at 5:30? I know Lohboy is in (speak up, you lurker!). Lyle's likely in as well.

Just hope it's not the slogfest it's been. Last week was pretty damn nasty.

[Spats]

While I enjoy the DH stuff, it is awfully damaging to the trail network unless massive trail hardening is done.

When horses churn an entire trail network into a sandy, rocky, shit-covered mess -- even in national wilderness -- it's an "unavoidable consequence of trail use". But just let a few mountain bikes put some braking bumps on an old log skid and suddenly we're "destroying the trails".

Who can we get in touch with about this? If they're going to reroute, they're going to reroute -- but the entire trail doesn't need to be doable on a hardtail, and I resent being told that my bicycle is doing more damage than a horse when it's clearly not true.

[ja_surf]

Who can we get in touch with about this? If they're going to reroute, they're going to reroute -- but the entire trail doesn't need to be doable on a hardtail, and I resent being told that my bicycle is doing more damage than a horse when it's clearly not true.

Spats

We are lucky we are going to be able to even continue to ride it. The Freel/Meiss Transportations watershed Trail Access and Travel Management Plan Environmental Assessment was done back in 2003. There was a public comment period that is long over. The usual suspects were lobbying hard to close the trial to mechanized use all together. Quite a few mountain bikers including myself got our comments on record about the trail. Even if it had been decided to close the trail to bikes the trail was going to be rerouted anyway away from the stream it follows and fix all the erosions issues anyway or the other option was to decommision it all together. IT really has nothing to do with bike use, if it did they would just close the trail to bikes.

If there was enough interest we could probably set up a ride with the forest service engineer in charge (He is a very good rider, I've ridden with him before)
and he could describe what they plan on doing and show us what the problems are with the trail if your interested in getting educated. If you want to PM me , I'll pass along his email to you.

Link below access the FS document on this.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/ltbmu/projec...t-1.html#p-act

[NorCalSJK]

Norcal and Pu - skeggs tomorrow at 5:30? I know Lohboy is in (speak up, you lurker!). Lyle's likely in as well.

It's 9:15am, and I am having severe tooth(cavity) and bike(chain/rear shock) issues. If these don't resolved today, which i'm planning on...i won't be going anywhere. I'll check back later.

[Telenater]

When horses churn an entire trail network into a sandy, rocky, shit-covered mess -- even in national wilderness -- it's an "unavoidable consequence of trail use". But just let a few mountain bikes put some braking bumps on an old log skid and suddenly we're "destroying the trails".

You'll find that the attitude is changing slowly. The Equestrian lobby is incredibly powerful, dedicated and throws a lot of money around. That has certainly had a large impact on policy. But, more and more it's becoming an issue of damage to trails regardless of source. Horses chew trails to hell because of the horses mass and nature. DH riding also causes problems. Doing either on just about any trail when the trail is wet is just about inexcuseable.

But, with proper construction methods almost all of these problems can be minimized. Having spent time on a professional trail crew (admittedly 99% of the trail network was closed to horses and bikes), I've seen the damage that both can do.

I helped manage a trail rerouting and hardening project on that other 1%. The requirements of a trail for equestrian and bike use are far more intensive if you wish to avoid erosion problems. And as soon as the slope increases above about 15% the costs to prevent erosion (in time and construction effort) increase dramatically. Below 5% grade, almost nothing needs to be done except drainage. 10% water bars and minimal slope stabilization. 15% requires the construction of stepped slopes with frequent trail bed drainage and slope stabilization. 20% and above the whole thing needs to be stabilized and is essential a stair case. That costs a lot to do and is being slowly done to the most popular trails. In many cases the current state of the trail is likely unrepairable and active revegetation and erosion control with a trail rerouting is the only answer.

Note that the slopes listed are very dependent on the substrate. In many places with sandy soils, the critical slopes may be shallower.

If there was enough interest we could probably set up a ride with the forest service engineer in charge (He is a very good rider, I've ridden with him before)
and he could describe what they plan on doing and show us what the problems are with the trail if your interested in getting educated.

I'm very interested in this. Also, I'm quite sure that the local mountain bike organization has at least a couple trail maintenance days. Lets get a group together and particpate. Showing that we're interested and willing to put our time where our mouth is will go further for preserving and improving access than just about anything else.

[NorCalSJK]

Lets get a group together and particpate. Showing that we're interested and willing to put our time where our mouth is will go further for preserving and improving access than just about anything else.

I'm interested...keep us posted. Weekdays are better for me, but i can try to work to get a weekend off.

[Arty50]

Pu, what time are you thinking of riding on Saturday?

[Superstar Punani]

Pu, what time are you thinking of riding on Saturday?

What times are best to avoid the mozzies and heat? before 11am?

I'll be staying at the Dirty Aussie's. Where's your new hood in relation to the old one?

[Arty50]

What times are best to avoid the mozzies and heat? before 11am?

I'll be staying at the Dirty Aussie's. Where's your new hood in relation to the old one?

Mozzies? We speak Merican around here, not Dirty Aussie.

No idea when good bug avoidance would be. As for heat, either morning or later in the afternoon would be good I guess. It's been warm up here the past week, but not bad. And if we're shuttling, it really doesn't matter.

I asked because I normally have Pilates at 10 on Saturday. But I just remembered that class is cancelled this week. So I'm free whenever.

I'll email you my new address and phone #.

[Superstar Punani]

I asked because I normally have Pilates at 10 on Saturday.

FAG!!!!!!!

[Arty50]

FAG!!!!!!!

*Snif* *Snif* Now you've gone and made me cry.